I Don't Get It

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

Well Andy with all due respect I can accept that Bill Belichick knows the blueprint ... which is what we don't know. We can kind of guess the blueprint but we don't know it.

What we really don't know is how many plays are we not running with Moss vs how many we will run without him ... we will be finding out soon.

What possible blueprint could cause BB to say a guy who scored 47 TD in the previous 3 years, averaging over 1200 receiving yards, is now useless in the offense.
How can it be more believable that BB decided Moss was a waste of a roster spot based on his skills than based upon his attitude and effort?

I mean, seriously, people who are saying how great Moss is as WR are trying to also say BB decided we were better off without him on the field giving 100% effort. I find that ludicrous.

Besides, if you have plays you want to run without him, put him on the sidelines for those. You are implying the offense is better without him, for reasons other than his effort.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

How else could have gotten what he wanted? Clearly he wanted either a long term contract or to be traded. I'm sure he indicated that early on, but when the Patriots didn't listen, what was he supposed to do? It's a business.

Are you saying you support Moss tanking on the Patriots so he could get traded? And as a Pat fan you aren't pissed off at him for that?

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

He made it clear that he wanted an extension or a new contract in the offseason. He had caught 50 TD's for us over a three year period. In order to avoid what happened, the team could have given him said extension. Instead, they chose not to. They could have avoided this entire thing. And they certainly had the money to do so.

In your opinion, under the assumption that BB fel he wasn't going to be worth the contract going forward (kind of have to use that assumption since he didnt offer him a contract) do you feel the team should do so anyway, given what he had done in the past, as you mentioned, and that you may have to bribe him to play hard this year?

 

[emoney_33]

Re: I Dont Get It

Why would players say that about Moss but never about anyone else if they are just making it up?

"Players"? F**** Jets players ok. Maybe you can go check what Champ Bailey says about Moss. Seriously Revis was in what HS or college when Moss' infamous words "I play when I want" were spoken.

Moss wasnt any more heavily covered this year than any other year.
From 07-09 per every 4 games Moss averaged:

20.8 catches
314 yards
4 TDs


This year it was
9
135
3

Very disingenuous of you knowing that 2 of the games were 1) against a great Jets defense and 2) with a gameplan that targeted Moss ONCE on a fake spike.


Seriously your bogus argument is that he QUIT on the team in order to get traded rather than HOLD OUT to get traded. You use the media to prove your case while ignoring the media's report that Moss was supposedly in DENIAL.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

I have defended the organization, but I also see Moss's side. The guy is 33 years old, got banged up last season, and is looking at a potential lock-out next season. He can watch T.O. and where his career is now and see himself without a deal. Moss is no spring chicken, so there is an urgency to getting a deal done and that simply would not happen with the Pats. Playing out the year throws him into uncertainty, far more so than the typical 20-something player.

I don't buy that his numbers over 4 games indicate he has been phoning it in with the Pats. There are lots of reasons for that, including game scenarios, vulnerabilities of opponents, etc. that would suggest 25% of a random season is a poor measure of a complete season. His performance on the field looks pretty much like typical Randy Moss to me. If you are psychologically projecting ongoing trade discussions into what you are seeing on the field, I would submit you are seeing something that simply isn't there.

Moss played for the Pats over 3 seasons and he played well. I won't hate on him for this move, any more than I will hate on the organization for doing what it did in the end.

Lets not forget that this is the same Randy Moss who has said it isnt about money because he has more than enough money for the rest of his life.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Re: I Dont Get It

"Players"? F**** Jets players ok. Maybe you can go check what Champ Bailey says about Moss. Seriously Revis was in what HS or college when Moss' infamous words "I play when I want" were spoken.



Very disingenuous of you knowing that 2 of the games were 1) against a great Jets defense and 2) with a gameplan that targeted Moss ONCE on a fake spike.


Seriously your bogus argument is that he QUIT on the team in order to get traded rather than HOLD OUT to get traded. You use the media to prove your case while ignoring the media's report that Moss was supposedly in DENIAL.

AndyJohnson always supports every single Patriots decision. I don't think he's ever criticized the management once in any of his posts on this forum.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

When the offense is on the field, what is BB doing? Why is it out of the ordinary to desire more ball-control focus with a young defense vs. a quick-strike offense that gives the defense less time to rest even when the offense is great at their job? Unless you believe that the longterm goal of a developing defense is meaningless and the goal should be to win now at all costs, I don't see why you would not WANT a ball control offense?

Also with actual options after Moss (and Welker), why would you NOT want to throw elsewhere when Moss is double teamed and the focal point of the defense. Why wouldn't you throw to him less?

He went from a top 5 producer to a something like a bottom 5 producer.
Its not like there was a change of philosophy that just got him the ball a bit less, his production was LESS THAN HALF.
Are you really saying that BB looked at this and said Randy Moss is the same player as 07-09 giving the same effort, and I would rather not have hm on the field so I can throw it to a rookie or 2nd year player?

You are now arguing that having Randy Moss on the team, playing full out giving 100% is bad for the team.
Really?

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

Re: I Dont Get It

AJ is right on. Moss forced his way out of town by intentionally showing signs that he wasn't going to be a good guy much longer unless he got paid - NOW. Fans have every right to be pissed.

And I'm on AJ's side too when it comes to folks saying they don't blame Moss for shooting his way out of town because he knew he wasn't going to get a new deal here and did what was best for Randy - not for his team. Why? Because if it just a business like so many NFL'ers say then live up to the business deal you signed, earn you $9m, and feel like you're the luckiest SOB ever to walk the earth.

Anway, Moss proved himself a fraud with his own words - "All I ever wanted was to be part of team, and that's what we had in new England" he said in his Minny presser. Ya, right, Randy. If all you ever wanted was to be part of a real team and you found it here in NE then why in the world would be doing anything but knocking yourself out to be a part of the very team you decided you no longer wanted to a part of? Instead you rant for 15 minutes after the team's opening win about YOU and YOUR condition, not the team. That's on top of you pouting like a 10yr old at the Pat's biggest annual fundraiser, keeping your earbuds in and slouching down at a table alone. Fraud, fraud, fraud. Sorry, Randy, you almost had me but I should have known better.

 

[MassPats38]

Re: I Dont Get It

Lets not forget that this is the same Randy Moss who has said it isnt about money because he has more than enough money for the rest of his life.

He also said he was surprised by the trade in a press conference after requesting the trade. Moss isn't stupid. He isn't going to pull a public T.O. and his media events have never been that type of spectacle. As I recall, his "isn't about the money" statement was a few years ago when he got his last contract. I expect it's also about the organizational love and security represented by a long-term deal, which he lacks right now on the brink of a lock-out.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

"Players"? F**** Jets players ok. Maybe you can go check what Champ Bailey says about Moss. Seriously Revis was in what HS or college when Moss' infamous words "I play when I want" were spoken.

Why do they never say it about anyone else? They were not the only ones who said it last year.
You seem to just want to dismiss anything that doesnt fit your viewpoint.

Very disingenuous of you knowing that 2 of the games were 1) against a great Jets defense and 2) with a gameplan that targeted Moss ONCE on a fake spike.

Disingenous? That is his production.
The Jets are part of the schedule.
If Brady hadn't lost faith in his effort, he would have gotten the ball.
The gameplan doesnt say dont throw to Moss, Moss not getting open dictates that.

Seriously your bogus argument is that he QUIT on the team in order to get traded rather than HOLD OUT to get traded. You use the media to prove your case while ignoring the media's report that Moss was supposedly in DENIAL.

I could care less what the media says. It is obvious to anyone who isnt starting from a predisposed defensive of Moss perspective that he gave up on the team.
Moss was a key to the offense from 07-09.
In 2010 he was essentially kicked off the team. Sure his attitude was fine and gave 100%/

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Re: I Dont Get It

What possible blueprint could cause BB to say a guy who scored 47 TD in the previous 3 years, averaging over 1200 receiving yards, is now useless in the offense.

You're making up all sorts of unfounded rationalizations or criticisms of Moss to explain this trade. Why can't it be as simple as the reasons for trading Seymour last year? You know you won't re-sign the guy for the money he wants, so you trade him a year early rather than let the asset walk after the season.


Also, you can't take 4 games and automatically conclude he's either not trying or has diminished skills. There was an article last year showing how all of the elite WR's go through long stretches of non-productivity. There has been a Reiss article this year showing how the Patriots have used multiple TE sets more than any other team in the league (twice as many as the next highest team). There has been a clear shift in offensive philosophy and scheme that has nothing to do with Randy Moss' work ethic or supposed diminished skills.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

You're making up all sorts of unfounded rationalizations or criticisms of Moss to explain this trade. Why can't it be as simple as the reasons for trading Seymour last year? You know you won't re-sign the guy for the money he wants, so you trade him a year early rather than let the asset walk after the season.

Because Seymour was traded for a valuable pick.
Moss was given away.
Some argue that having Seymour for one season was more valuable than the #1 we got.
No one in their right mind would argue that a 3rdround pick minus a 7th is worth more than Moss if Moss is giving 100%.

Are you serioulsy telling me that BB thinks the franchise is better of with no Moss this year and a late 3rd in 2011, then Moss this year and a compensatory 3rd or 4th next year?

If I believe this decision was not based on Moss' attitude, commitment and effort, then I believe BB should be fired, because he has lost his mind.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

AndyJohnson always supports every single Patriots decision. I don't think he's ever criticized the management once in any of his posts on this forum.

That's bs.
Discuss the point if you want to disagree.
The fact is that I am onl;y repeating what I have said since the Jet game.

Are you trying to say that Moss was giving 100% and could be relied upon?

If thats the case, I dont support the decision, and would recommend BB be fired today.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

He also said he was surprised by the trade in a press conference after requesting the trade. Moss isn't stupid. He isn't going to pull a public T.O. and his media events have never been that type of spectacle. As I recall, his "isn't about the money" statement was a few years ago when he got his last contract. I expect it's also about the organizational love and security represented by a long-term deal, which he lacks right now on the brink of a lock-out.

Just pointing out that facts are being selectively used.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

Re: I Dont Get It

Because Seymour was traded for a valuable pick.
Moss was given away.
Some argue that having Seymour for one season was more valuable than the #1 we got.
No one in their right mind would argue that a 3rdround pick minus a 7th is worth more than Moss if Moss is giving 100%.

Are you serioulsy telling me that BB thinks the franchise is better of with no Moss this year and a late 3rd in 2011, then Moss this year and a compensatory 3rd or 4th next year?

If I believe this decision was not based on Moss' attitude, commitment and effort, then I believe BB should be fired, because he has lost his mind.

I have to agree, sadly people seem to buy into his talk. I personally don't believe a thing Bill says, he is a great coach but knows how to stay out of the media, and when the media comes to him he never gives straight up answers. Not buying the idea that Moss was a huge role model and giving his all, you can see on camera he was losing his role here.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

I have to agree, sadly people seem to buy into his talk. I personally don't believe a thing Bill says, he is a great coach but knows how to stay out of the media, and when the media comes to him he never gives straight up answers. Not buying the idea that Moss was a huge role model and giving his all, you can see on camera he was losing his role here.

And it is moronic to think that eliminating Moss from the offense was a strategic decision that made the team better. (Again assuming that is Moss giving 100%. Moss loafing needed to be removed to make the team better)

 

[Yfz01]

Re: I Dont Get It

Why do they never say it about anyone else? They were not the only ones who said it last year.
You seem to just want to dismiss anything that doesnt fit your viewpoint.




Disingenous? That is his production.
The Jets are part of the schedule.
If Brady hadn't lost faith in his effort, he would have gotten the ball.
The gameplan doesnt say dont throw to Moss, Moss not getting open dictates that.



I could care less what the media says. It is obvious to anyone who isnt starting from a predisposed defensive of Moss perspective that he gave up on the team.Moss was a key to the offense from 07-09.
In 2010 he was essentially kicked off the team. Sure his attitude was fine and gave 100%/

If it was obvious, don't you think someone outside of RhodyPatriot (moss hater) would agree with you?

 

[Yfz01]

Re: I Dont Get It

I have to agree, sadly people seem to buy into his talk. I personally don't believe a thing Bill says, he is a great coach but knows how to stay out of the media, and when the media comes to him he never gives straight up answers. Not buying the idea that Moss was a huge role model and giving his all, you can see on camera he was losing his role here.

Belichick went to the media, the media didn't come to him. It's also obvious that stats shouldn't be an indicator as Moss had two drops that would have givin him 100 more yards. He had some drops in 07' too though, so I'm not going to say his he was attempting to 'drop the ball' so to speak.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

Re: I Dont Get It

And it is moronic to think that eliminating Moss from the offense was a strategic decision that made the team better. (Again assuming that is Moss giving 100%. Moss loafing needed to be removed to make the team better)

Yea, the whole idea I figure is to remove the cancer before it spreads, giving the locker room a fresh feel and possibly resulting in better play. This will never be proven either way at least until guys retire and speak out, in Minnesota he will be on his best behavior and play hard for the money and new environment (or old if you look at it that way) if anything.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Re: I Dont Get It

What possible blueprint could cause BB to say a guy who scored 47 TD in the previous 3 years, averaging over 1200 receiving yards, is now useless in the offense.
How can it be more believable that BB decided Moss was a waste of a roster spot based on his skills than based upon his attitude and effort?

I mean, seriously, people who are saying how great Moss is as WR are trying to also say BB decided we were better off without him on the field giving 100% effort. I find that ludicrous.

Besides, if you have plays you want to run without him, put him on the sidelines for those. You are implying the offense is better without him, for reasons other than his effort.

You don't pay attention andy ...

Bill looks forwards ... not backwards.
he studies the past and relates it to the present and the future.

Bill tries to predict where the game is going and he wants to be the first to be ready for it.

yes i am implying the offense is better without him ... even Moss himself has acknowledged he has lost a step.

Let's say Moss was giving 100%.

It was not 100% of 100% andy ... it was perhaps 100% of 80% ... as in decline.
forget the speed factor ... his hand eye coordination is off ... that much we all can see.