I Don't Get It

[Ring 6]

At the risk of starting another Moss thread, the thing I cannot understand is the pleasant attitude toward Moss. I don't understand why people who are unhappy that he is no longer here aren't plssed at the reason he is not here: Randy Moss.
His entire season to date was an attempt to not be part of this team. His production was less than half of his production level since he has been here. Isn't it obvious he quit on the team?
Moss was traded becaue he made himself unwanted on the football team. The 3rd round pick was just what someone would pay to get him instead of waiting in line for waivers.
Randy Moss was never going to give an all out effort to the 2010 Patriots. Any anger for what might have been with a productive Moss as part of this team should be directed at the cause of that failure, and it is 100% Randy Moss.

 

[BelizePats]

Re: I Dont Get It

You are a smart guy Andy so I know you do get it!
There is a segment of this fan base that does not like our ownership and or management.
When situations like the Moss trade come up, these folks will always side with the player.
I loved what Randy did for this team for 3 years and I was out of the country when he went on his post Cinci rant. I didn't get to see it until the day he was traded.
You are dead on when you say his whole season was about getting out of here in order to get the new contract he knew was not coming from the Pats.
Jacki McMullan whom I normally can't stand, hit the nail on the head in her article about the trade. Dude was so focused on getting he and his that he lost sight of everything else.
The crap he pulled to get out was the same $%# he pulled first in Minni and the in Oakland.
When he steps on to our field, I'll boo his ass until my head hurts.
What he pulled was totally unacceptable!
Meet the new Randy Moss. Same as the old Randy Moss!

 

[WinstonSmith]

Re: I Dont Get It

Why be pissed at Randy. It was part of the Moss equation – he got pissed and pouted if things did not go his way and had the potential of shutting down if things went bad. I think Bill realized this when he first traded for Moss and now realizes the worm has turned and its time to move on.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Re: I Dont Get It

I'll say this much ... anyone who has coached even a youth sports team gets it.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: I Dont Get It

At the risk of starting another Moss thread, the thing I cannot understand is the pleasant attitude toward Moss. I don't understand why people who are unhappy that he is no longer here aren't plssed at the reason he is not here: Randy Moss.
His entire season to date was an attempt to not be part of this team. His production was less than half of his production level since he has been here. Isn't it obvious he quit on the team?
Moss was traded becaue he made himself unwanted on the football team. The 3rd round pick was just what someone would pay to get him instead of waiting in line for waivers.
Randy Moss was never going to give an all out effort to the 2010 Patriots. Any anger for what might have been with a productive Moss as part of this team should be directed at the cause of that failure, and it is 100% Randy Moss.

He didn't want to be a 35 y/o WR looking for a new contract who hadn't played in a year. If the Pats weren't going to give him a contract, he wanted to play for someone who would. I'm not going to begrudge him that: he wouldn't have foreseen the lockout when he signed his extension with the Pats, and that changed things. If the Pats had given him a better alternative, we can only guess that he probably would have been fine.

It's a business when the Pats cut a player who's under contract, and I don't hold that against the team. Likewise, I don't hold it against Moss that he has a family and a post-football career to look out for. He gave us one historic year and 2 other great ones, so I'd much rather thank him for the 50 TDs and hope the team can pull together and do fine without him.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: I Dont Get It

At the risk of starting another Moss thread, the thing I cannot understand is the pleasant attitude toward Moss. I don't understand why people who are unhappy that he is no longer here aren't plssed at the reason he is not here: Randy Moss.

Who's pissed at management for the trade?

His entire season to date was an attempt to not be part of this team. His production was less than half of his production level since he has been here. Isn't it obvious he quit on the team?

Are you serious? If his entire goal was to be traded... he would have held out like every other damn player in their last year unhappy about their contract. Branch, Seymour, Wilfork, Mankins... Moss, unhappy about his contract, HONORED his damn contract and came to work. Worked hard, practiced hard, played hard but the offensive strategy has simply been changing. Moss played hard on Monday knowing the gameplan wasn't to throw many passes his way, yet you still accuse him of QUITTING on the team. Absolutely ridiculous.

Moss was traded becaue he made himself unwanted on the football team. The 3rd round pick was just what someone would pay to get him instead of waiting in line for waivers.
Randy Moss was never going to give an all out effort to the 2010 Patriots. Any anger for what might have been with a productive Moss as part of this team should be directed at the cause of that failure, and it is 100% Randy Moss.

He gave the same effort he's given each year he was here. Once again, your ridiculous belief in your ability to judge effort on TV feeds is astonishing. BB wouldn't have played a guy lacking effort. He wouldn't play him all offensive snaps and then trade him. Seriously, it's like logic just gets thrown out the window with the anti-Moss bias around here.

I for one am partly happy he's gone to a place where he can be friggin appreciated. People here certainly did not deserve to watch such talent with the way they are so quick to judge, accuse and dismiss the guy.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

Re: I Dont Get It

You are a smart guy Andy so I know you do get it!
There is a segment of this fan base that does not like our ownership and or management.
When situations like the Moss trade come up, these folks will always side with the player.
I loved what Randy did for this team for 3 years and I was out of the country when he went on his post Cinci rant. I didn't get to see it until the day he was traded.
You are dead on when you say his whole season was about getting out of here in order to get the new contract he knew was not coming from the Pats.
Jacki McMullan whom I normally can't stand, hit the nail on the head in her article about the trade. Dude was so focused on getting he and his that he lost sight of everything else.
The crap he pulled to get out was the same $%# he pulled first in Minni and the in Oakland.
When he steps on to our field, I'll boo his ass until my head hurts.
What he pulled was totally unacceptable!
Meet the new Randy Moss. Same as the old Randy Moss!

Hope you remember to boo Mankins also from your high horse

 

[patfanken]

Re: I Dont Get It

I'm not going to begrudge him that: he wouldn't have foreseen the lockout when he signed his extension with the Pats, and that changed things. If the Pats had given him a better alternative, we can only guess that he probably would have been fine.

I don't begrudge him the right to be concerned about his future. But he did have an existing contract which paid him TOP DOLLAR to be an impact player at his position. Clearly he wasn't that kind of player THIS season

It's a business when the Pats cut a player who's under contract, and I don't hold that against the team. Likewise, I don't hold it against Moss that he has a family and a post-football career to look out for.

Its not the same thing. If the Pats had "cut" Moss or any other player after the first game, they'd be responsible for paying him his full salary for the season. Moss' money was guaranteed, and as for non-guaranteed contracts.... I'm all for them. What a novel idea, actually paying a player for his contributions on the field, instead of having to over pay for past performances that you no long get.

Note for his time here, Moss was worth every penny he got. If anything he over performed his contract until this season.

As for Andy's comments that he thinks Moss dogged it one the field as a ploy to get traded, I would have to disagree. I didn't see any lack of effort on Moss' part. His lack of production was more a factor of Brady having more legit targets than in the past with the new TE's and Tate, and the fact Brady missed him on several deep throws. He also had a couple of drops as well.

So if you want to use his OFF field actions as an example of him trying to get traded, I'm on your side, but not the on field stuff.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

Re: I Dont Get It

At the risk of starting another Moss thread, the thing I cannot understand is the pleasant attitude toward Moss. I don't understand why people who are unhappy that he is no longer here aren't plssed at the reason he is not here: Randy Moss.
His entire season to date was an attempt to not be part of this team. His production was less than half of his production level since he has been here. Isn't it obvious he quit on the team?
Moss was traded becaue he made himself unwanted on the football team. The 3rd round pick was just what someone would pay to get him instead of waiting in line for waivers.
Randy Moss was never going to give an all out effort to the 2010 Patriots. Any anger for what might have been with a productive Moss as part of this team should be directed at the cause of that failure, and it is 100% Randy Moss.

You won't get it because many fans are emotional.

PS: At the risk of diverting the thread, do you plan to update your Sanchez thread?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: I Dont Get It

I don't begrudge him the right to be concerned about his future. But he did have an existing contract which paid him TOP DOLLAR to be an impact player at his position. Clearly he wasn't that kind of player THIS season



Its not the same thing. If the Pats had "cut" Moss or any other player after the first game, they'd be responsible for paying him his full salary for the season. Moss' money was guaranteed, and as for non-guaranteed contracts.... I'm all for them. What a novel idea, actually paying a player for his contributions on the field, instead of having to over pay for past performances that you no long get.

Note for his time here, Moss was worth every penny he got. If anything he over performed his contract until this season.

As for Andy's comments that he thinks Moss dogged it one the field as a ploy to get traded, I would have to disagree. I didn't see any lack of effort on Moss' part. His lack of production was more a factor of Brady having more legit targets than in the past with the new TE's and Tate, and the fact Brady missed him on several deep throws. He also had a couple of drops as well.

So if you want to use his OFF field actions as an example of him trying to get traded, I'm on your side, but not the on field stuff.

I agree with the second half of your post, mostly, but not the first. No, he wasn't producing as much as in past seasons, but as you pointed out that was because of a change in offensive philosophy and the talent of guys around him. He still performed to previous standards when called upon, and he was on pace for 12 TDs, which has to count for something.

And just like the Pats would be responsible for paying Moss if they cut him, Moss took responsibility for his side of the bargain: he was willing to play out his contract. He didn't want to, but he never even insinuated that holding out was a possibility. He was unhappy with his contract status, wanted to be somewhere else if the Pats wouldn't address it, but in the mean time was willing to honor his obligations. The Pats decided to move on without him, which is their right. Why should I be pissed at Moss for that, as Andy suggests?

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

Who's pissed at management for the trade?



Are you serious? If his entire goal was to be traded... he would have held out like every other damn player in their last year unhappy about their contract. Branch, Seymour, Wilfork, Mankins... Moss, unhappy about his contract, HONORED his damn contract and came to work. Worked hard, practiced hard, played hard but the offensive strategy has simply been changing. Moss played hard on Monday knowing the gameplan wasn't to throw many passes his way, yet you still accuse him of QUITTING on the team. Absolutely ridiculous.



He gave the same effort he's given each year he was here. Once again, your ridiculous belief in your ability to judge effort on TV feeds is astonishing. BB wouldn't have played a guy lacking effort. He wouldn't play him all offensive snaps and then trade him. Seriously, it's like logic just gets thrown out the window with the anti-Moss bias around here.

I for one am partly happy he's gone to a place where he can be friggin appreciated. People here certainly did not deserve to watch such talent with the way they are so quick to judge, accuse and dismiss the guy.

OK. Thank you for the blind love of Randy viewpoint.

Just a qick question. If Moss gave the same effort this year as every other year, why did Belichick not want him around?
Ar you sayng Belichick is one of this people who did not deserve to watch him?

By the way no one is crticizing the Randy Moss that was here from 07-09, but if you saw the same player on the field this year, you are not being honest with yourself.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

He didn't want to be a 35 y/o WR looking for a new contract who hadn't played in a year. If the Pats weren't going to give him a contract, he wanted to play for someone who would. I'm not going to begrudge him that: he wouldn't have foreseen the lockout when he signed his extension with the Pats, and that changed things. If the Pats had given him a better alternative, we can only guess that he probably would have been fine.

It's a business when the Pats cut a player who's under contract, and I don't hold that against the team. Likewise, I don't hold it against Moss that he has a family and a post-football career to look out for. He gave us one historic year and 2 other great ones, so I'd much rather thank him for the 50 TDs and hope the team can pull together and do fine without him.

Is your position that any player who's contract expires this season should rightfully piss off the team they are on in order to get traded and get an extension?

 

[Modest]

Re: I Dont Get It

Randy Moss also burned down an orphanage, pissed in Belichick's cornflakes every morning before gameday, hit and killed two nuns during a DUI, joined Westborough Baptist Church, and gave Rex Ryan our playbook this season. No wonder he was traded.

 

[Tunescribe]

Re: I Dont Get It

He didn't want to be a 35 y/o WR looking for a new contract who hadn't played in a year. If the Pats weren't going to give him a contract, he wanted to play for someone who would. I'm not going to begrudge him that: he wouldn't have foreseen the lockout when he signed his extension with the Pats, and that changed things. If the Pats had given him a better alternative, we can only guess that he probably would have been fine.

It's a business when the Pats cut a player who's under contract, and I don't hold that against the team. Likewise, I don't hold it against Moss that he has a family and a post-football career to look out for. He gave us one historic year and 2 other great ones, so I'd much rather thank him for the 50 TDs and hope the team can pull together and do fine without him.

First of all, we don't know if Minnesota signed him for more than a year. Secondly, he was under contract here and all he had to do was be true to his word: that he was going to give it 100 percent this season and let the chips fall where they may. He went back on his word by acting out and forcing the Pats' hand. Had he played hard this season and put up good numbers, his future would've taken care of itself, lockout or no lockout. I agree with the OP that the onus was mostly on Randy.

I think the reason so many fans have gone easy on Moss or even blame BB/Kraft for the falling out is simply that Moss is a dazzling player and people get seduced by that. It's like the gorgeous babe who gets away with being a nasty b!tch just because she's gorgeous.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

I agree with the second half of your post, mostly, but not the first. No, he wasn't producing as much as in past seasons, but as you pointed out that was because of a change in offensive philosophy and the talent of guys around him. He still performed to previous standards when called upon, and he was on pace for 12 TDs, which has to count for something.

And just like the Pats would be responsible for paying Moss if they cut him, Moss took responsibility for his side of the bargain: he was willing to play out his contract. He didn't want to, but he never even insinuated that holding out was a possibility. He was unhappy with his contract status, wanted to be somewhere else if the Pats wouldn't address it, but in the mean time was willing to honor his obligations. The Pats decided to move on without him, which is their right. Why should I be pissed at Moss for that, as Andy suggests?

I dont understand how you can conclude that he gave his best effort when his production was less than half of what it has been. In fact it is very subpar for any starting WR.
The exact point is that he wasn't honoring his obligations, he did not give 100% effort.
Ask yourself this. If Moss was giving 100% why would they change he offense from one that worked, and why would they give him away in week 5 for essentially nothing? Are you really saying that the Patriots just decided that a player like Randy Moss giving his all was useless to them?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: I Dont Get It

Is your position that any player who's contract expires this season should rightfully piss off the team they are on in order to get traded and get an extension?

Should? No, definitely didn't say that. But sure, players whose contracts are up after this season, especially players in Moss's age range who rely on athleticism as much as he does, stand to be uniquely screwed by the lockout. I don't blame them for being pissed and wanting the team to address their concerns. Especially if they undercut their own leverage by continuing to show up and play no matter how unhappy they are. He agreed to show up and play, but you can't reasonably expect him to be happy with the situation.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

I don't begrudge him the right to be concerned about his future. But he did have an existing contract which paid him TOP DOLLAR to be an impact player at his position. Clearly he wasn't that kind of player THIS season



Its not the same thing. If the Pats had "cut" Moss or any other player after the first game, they'd be responsible for paying him his full salary for the season. Moss' money was guaranteed, and as for non-guaranteed contracts.... I'm all for them. What a novel idea, actually paying a player for his contributions on the field, instead of having to over pay for past performances that you no long get.

Note for his time here, Moss was worth every penny he got. If anything he over performed his contract until this season.

As for Andy's comments that he thinks Moss dogged it one the field as a ploy to get traded, I would have to disagree. I didn't see any lack of effort on Moss' part. His lack of production was more a factor of Brady having more legit targets than in the past with the new TE's and Tate, and the fact Brady missed him on several deep throws. He also had a couple of drops as well.

So if you want to use his OFF field actions as an example of him trying to get traded, I'm on your side, but not the on field stuff.

Why would the team, BB or Brady simply decide to stop throwing him the ball after 3 years of being a top 5 productive WR?
Why would you abandon Moss to throw to Tate?
I saw a lack of effort on plays. It is hard to determine from here, I agree.
But when opponents are saying he dogged it, that is evidence. Name any other players that opponents say that about.
Mostly though, why would BB get rid of Moss if he was giving 100%? There is simply no legitimate explanation.
The argument being floated now is that BB decided that having a top 5 WR who was one of the best deep threats in the league was worth 9mill a year 2 1/2 years ago, but now was useless.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

Should? No, definitely didn't say that. But sure, players whose contracts are up after this season, especially players in Moss's age range who rely on athleticism as much as he does, stand to be uniquely screwed by the lockout. I don't blame them for being pissed and wanting the team to address their concerns. Especially if they undercut their own leverage by continuing to show up and play no matter how unhappy they are. He agreed to show up and play, but you can't reasonably expect him to be happy with the situation.

I can expect him to give 100%. He did not.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: I Dont Get It

I can expect him to give 100%. He did not.

You're not really in any position to determine that.

As far as why they decided not to throw at Moss, probably a combination of "he was doubled and there were open receivers", "the Pats were in ball control mode for most of the game since the ST gave them a huge lead to work with for the second half", and "they knew they were about to trade him." Take your pick.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Re: I Dont Get It

In defense of Randy Moss ... which i have not done ... I will say this:

Coaches cut players for whatever reason they wish ... you are out ... no questions asked ... contract not paid in full.

Players can shoot their way out of town ... other than sucking this is the only way to get off a team ... hopefully you get a new contract from this method.

It evens the playing field IMO ... I don't like it but let's face it there is no loyalty to players ... almost never. Sometimes they give you an extra year like Troy Brown got but most are tossed to the side of the road.

Randy Moss exercised the player loophole ... just as management exercises their loophole. What JAG was cut that we made multiple threads for. Where are the Billy Yates threads ... because he was dumped?

it's a business and Randy warned us ... at least he did that ... thanks Randy.