How much longer will Patrick Chung last?

[condon84]

We should have drafted William Moore.

 

[BradyManny]

Fighting fire with fire?

Honestly the problem is everybody is expecting Rodney Harrison 2003-4 and Chung while a decent safety isn't at that level. I think people forget just how bad Meriweather and Sanders were with their over-pursuit and bad angles. Lawyer Milloy wasn't a good cover safety and he had better rules to play with. His angles also were bad at times.

On the TD pass to Chandler as Bedard pointed out Chung was caught between taking away a crossing route and staying deep and make the wrong decision but still almost came up with the play.

He's not Ed Reed but he also isn't the problem.

I'm fine calling fans spoiled if they are whining about Belichick or Brady or Super Bowls or Kraft or things on that level.

We're talking about Pat Chung. He's been a good player for us, but I don't think his play is beyond criticism, and I don't think attempting to evaluate his play makes a fan spoiled.

He's our best safety, so I agree with the bulk of what you write here. But the fact is, our safety play this season has not been great. If we are going to point to one area of the defense that could improve as the season goes on, I would point to that.

McCourty & Arrington are playing well, minus some hiccups. Moore is playing OK, though you'd like the higher upside Dowling to push for his playing time.

Corner play has been about what I was expecting.

Safety play has not, that's what I'd boil it down too.

 

[Marqui]

I wonder how much Belichick is going to offer Reed in FA next year.

 

[aluminum seats]

I think some of the posters are going overboard and acting like it's Tebucky Jones and Artrell Hawkins back there

I think there's a decent chance Tebucky Jones would make this team....

 

[DaBruinz]

Go look at those two picks again....

Also, people ignore the beats when the ball isn't thrown to the CB's man. For example, take a look at this footage at around the 45 second mark, and see how badly McCourty was beaten on the in.

NFL Game Center: New England Patriots at Buffalo Bills - 2012 Week 4

Fitzpicksix gets the big gainer against Mayo, but he could also easily have picked up the first down if he'd thrown to McCourty's man on the play.

So, because McCourty was playing OFF Stevie Johnson who normally goes deep, you consider that McCourty getting beat? Damn, Deus. Normally, there is some logic to your spew, but there isn' in this case..

And, Sorry, but McCourty had a decent (not good, not great) game against Baltimore, contrary to your criticism.

 

[DaBruinz]

Rams snaked Delmas 1 pick ahead of the Pats. So it's way too late to change history. Chung is solid in the box but has shown to be a liability in coverage. I think maybe Ebner will be ready by next year. He is a very solid tackler and has a nose for the ball.

Our safety tandem might eventually be Wilson/Ebner. Which would mean the Pats hit the lottery on safeties in 2012 much like they did the TE position in 2010.

The Rams didn't snake Delmas 1 pick ahead of the Pats. Delmas was drafted by the LIONS 1 pick ahead of the Pats. Not to mention that Delmas hasn't exactly been the epitome of health. He missed 1+ game each of his first two years and then he missed 5 games last year and has missed 4 games so far this year. Which is 1 more than Chung has missed and people are whining about Chung not being able to stay on the field..

 

[DaBruinz]

What about it?

Clearly it was a game you didn't watch too well.

And Gregory has made plays. People like yourself and ACQB chose to overlook them because they blow up your silly rants.

 

[everlong]

We're talking about Pat Chung. He's been a good player for us, but I don't think his play is beyond criticism, and I don't think attempting to evaluate his play makes a fan spoiled.

I never said he was beyond criticism. I even paraphrased Bedard's criticism. But just look at the thread title. Has Chung's play warranted being blown out of town like Sanders or Meriweather?

The other thing is people make these blanket statements in all these threads, both protecting and bashing the players. Chung sucks. Chung is great. At least support your argument. The Chandler play is a fair example of Chung biting up, getting out of position and getting beat. He is definitely a better player when he's coming forward to make a play no doubt about it.

Is he the the trash some are suggesting? No.

 

[Deus Irae]

So, because McCourty was playing OFF Stevie Johnson who normally goes deep, you consider that McCourty getting beat? Damn, Deus. Normally, there is some logic to your spew, but there isn' in this case..

They needed 3 yards for the first and McCourty never came close to contesting. It's not a matter of playing off. It's a matter of never even being competitive on that route.

And, Sorry, but McCourty had a decent (not good, not great) game against Baltimore, contrary to your criticism.

Had 2 throws been on target, he'd be getting killed again. Instead, people are acting like he was the cat's meow.

He wasn't. He was mediocre and still having the same problems he's been having for more than a year.

 

[JoeShmoe]

I laugh at these threads. Chung is going nowhere

Look how many yards ALL teams with a half decent QB are putting up week after week. The Ravens,with Ed Reed, just gave up 320 yards passing to Brandon Weeden. Yes, Brandon Weeden against the best safety maybe ever to play the game

It also doesn't help Chung that the QB usually has all damn day to throw the ball, no DB is going to do well when thats the case

I see a decent safety, not elite, who tackles well but sometimes takes bad angles and struggles sometimes in coverage. But thats the same level of safety play i see from 90% of other safeties in the league

 

[RayClay]

How about "when are we going to keep the same 4 people in the secondary for a couple years?"

That would have more of a beneficial effect than dumping people.

Ty Law had the right idea in his recent interviews.

 

[Deus Irae]

How about "when are we going to keep the same 4 people in the secondary for a couple years?"

That would have more of a beneficial effect than dumping people.

Ty Law had the right idea in his recent interviews.

Great idea. Let's bring back Sergio Brown, Ihedigbho, etc... from last year and keep them for 4-5 years. It's more important to keep them together than upgrade, after all.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I never said he was beyond criticism. I even paraphrased Bedard's criticism. But just look at the thread title. Has Chung's play warranted being blown out of town like Sanders or Meriweather?

The other thing is people make these blanket statements in all these threads, both protecting and bashing the players. Chung sucks. Chung is great. At least support your argument. The Chandler play is a fair example of Chung biting up, getting out of position and getting beat. He is definitely a better player when he's coming forward to make a play no doubt about it.

Is he the the trash some are suggesting? No.

Cutting a player who isn't making much money in the first place vs. letting a player leave as an UFA when someone else offers him more than he's worth are two very different things. I don't think that anyone's advocating cutting Chung. Just speculating that the Patriots are likely to let him walk as a FA if he gets anything close to Michael Griffin money.

 

[aluminum seats]

How about "when are we going to keep the same 4 people in the secondary for a couple years?"

That would have more of a beneficial effect than dumping people.

Ty Law had the right idea in his recent interviews.

There have been guys who've been around for a few years now--Chung's one of them.

 

[YearbookCurfew]

Still a lot of football left to be played. I'd give it some time and see how he does.

 

[Pats-Phan]

I'd offer Chung 3 million per year. If he can get more than that I'd say goodbye.

 

[Coach42]

Hasn't he been playing hurt? For the right price I would keep him around he's certainly better than what we have had recently back there.

The other thing to consider is the Pats secondary might be the most exposed in the NFL. As long as our offense continues to blitzkrieg other teams with the no huddle and 2 play scoring drives the other teams are being forced to throw down the field aggressively.

 

[RayClay]

Great idea. Let's bring back Sergio Brown, Ihedigbho, etc... from last year and keep them for 4-5 years. It's more important to keep them together than upgrade, after all.

I didn't say extend that idea to the stupidest thing possible, but thanks for your contribution.

The only reason those people were on the team is we didn't have reliable people even though we had spent high picks.

I guess posting the stupidest thing possible just makes my point that if we have someone steady we shouldn't dump him, otherwise we end up with a secondary like you mentioned.

 

[RayClay]

There have been guys who've been around for a few years now--Chung's one of them.

I realize it's in vogue to imagine you can build a team like you build a cup of instant coffee, but learning to play together is at least as important as talent and attitude.

We've built a good looking LB/DE group and people will immediately expect Bruschi McGinest Law type of play, forgetting that those players had already gone to a super bowl years before with a different coach.

These things don't just happen and if we have a guy who does his job and management makes a deal, it's a lot better than a coin flip for the unknown "can't miss" (how often is that phrase wrong?)

I guess its possible all 32 teams would benefit from seven can't miss rookie of the year candidates if they just hired message board posters to run their drafts, but since they insist on doing it the hard way, they will need to rely on experience, chemistry and repetition to build successful units.

 

[RayClay]

There have been guys who've been around for a few years now--Chung's one of them.

They haven't really played together much. Chung's played four, missed half, then 3./4 of a season. Played with meriweather when he was healthy. McCourty and arrington have played with patchwork lineups since they started.

Compare to Bruschi, McGinest and Law when we were at our best. Long way to go to reach that level and that goes for most of our D.

I'm not saying a talented young bunch can't go all the way, we were close last year, but it would be the exception, not the rule. Experience alone, and even more with a group - makes the pack stronger than the wolf.

Starting over every few years with the shiny new draft picks is obviously the approach of losers. Why else would the teams with the worst picks beat the teams who pick highest and do it on a consistent basis? If you gave the pats the top draft pick every year they's still compete, while the bottom feeders would still lose yet, despite that evidence, posters are sure if we just cut everybody for unknown picks we'd prosper.