How good has Barmore been this year?

[Stu Pidassle]

Yes!! Leaves me wanting more... is exactly how I feel.. of course he's a good player as we've seen him dominate.. 2023 he was phenomenal.. we need that Barmore in order to realize maximize the potential of the defensive line.. it's the eye test.. before analytics and the NFL started keeping stats.. it's the eye test that told the story of a players effectiveness. He doe get doubled..but in 2023 he shredded double teams.. I've seen him struggling to get off single blocks..this season. However I like Barmore i even gave him the nickname beastmore in 2023. I just know his full capabilities.

If he hit is girlfriend, he should be off the team. Otherwise I would be ok if he is here next year. I hear what you are saying about Barmore not being very visible. When Williams was playing there was a lot of talk about having one of the best pair of interior D lineman. After Williams was out and teams were able to focus more on Barmore he has not delivered. What would have happened if the situation was reversed and Williams was left alone with no Barmore? My guess is that Williams is a better player so there would still be impact, just not as obvious. As far as on field character concerns go, having an edge/temper is a good thing. Vrabel has said that he likes Barmore's ability to just go over the line without taking it too far. In summary Barmore is still valuable even though he has not consistently lived up to his potential.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

???
1) Barmore is not the player he was.
2) As has been the case for 20 years, for some posters any player who isn't as good as his best year should be cut or trading for a high draft choice, especially if his reduction in talent is the result of injury or illness.
3) Barmore should be evaluated on what he can expect to contribute in 2026 and in the future next to Williams and a very good NT.
4) I see DT/DL as one of our lowest priorities to spend resources for an upgrade, although we should always be looking for upgrades. We have a top line in Williams-Barmore-Tonga. We have OK backups in Durden and Farmer. The DL priority is to re-sign Tonga.
5) We are even OK at ILB with a healthy trio of Spillane, Elliss and Gibbens. Sure, a top starter would be great, but the cap money is better spent elsewhere on the Defense: (EDGE, EDGE, SAFETY, CORNER).

It's not just on field (where he can very good).
Maybe these charges will go away and nothing will come of it.
If (big if), reports of him putting his hands on a woman are substantiated, there is a very strong possibility Kraft sends him packing.
And yes, Kraft absolutely has the final say in that, and that is why we are discussing the possibility of playing withkout him next year.

 

[mgteich]

TOP LEVEL ANALYSIS
Barmore (and the run Defense) don't look good with Williams and Spillane out, and even worse when Tonga was injured (and Farmer).

CONCLUSION
Let's get rid all of the players on the weak Run Defense, or at best have any left as emergency backups.
Let's get rid of Barmore, Elliss, Gibbens and Tavai.
After all, if you can't be top producers without your top players, then you're useless as backups.

IS THE ABOVE ABSURD?
It seems that this is the approach of some of our posters. At minimum, they seem to believe that upgrading our Run Defense is a top priority and should demand the use of significant resources.

It doesn't seem to matter that we were and are a top Run Defense with a healthy Williams, Spillane and Tonga.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

TOP LEVEL ANALYSIS
Barmore (and the run Defense) don't look good with Williams and Spillane out, and even worse when Tonga was injured (and Farmer).

CONCLUSION
Let's get rid all of the players on the weak Run Defense, or at best have any left as emergency backups.
Let's get rid of Barmore, Elliss, Gibbens and Tavai.
After all, if you can't be top producers without your top players, then you're useless as backups.

IS THE ABOVE ABSURD?
It seems that this is the approach of some of our posters. At minimum, they seem to believe that upgrading our Run Defense is a top priority and should demand the use of significant resources.

It doesn't seem to matter that we were and are a top Run Defense with a healthy Williams, Spillane and Tonga.

He's a good player, and our overall D, especially run D is very good when we are healthy.
Who's saying we should get rid of him based on performance?
Him being cut based on his off field conduct is a very realistic possibility if he's found guilty of being physical with a woman.
If the incident never happened, I don't think we are discussing this at all, especially with his dead cap hit.

 

[mgteich]

He's a good player, and our overall D, especially run D is very good when we are healthy.
Who's saying we should get rid of him based on performance?
Him being cut based on his off field conduct is a very realistic possibility if he's found guilty of being physical with a woman.
If the incident never happened, I don't think we are discussing this at all, especially with his dead cap hit.

1) Barmore's contract calls for him to play for $13.5M. That could be saved if he is cut. $2M more could be saved if he is traded even for a 2028 7th (the guaranteed 2026 salary),

I would be shocked if everyone here believes that he is worth $13.5M or $15.5M for his 2026 services. Dead cap is irrelevant; that is just a statement of how much should be paid immediately instead of over the next two years.
===========================================
2) Cutting a player after he has been convicted of a crime is another thing entirely. I think that Kraft would consult with the players, the union, league regarding proper action. Personally, I believe that strong punishment is reasonable for any player that abuses a woman.

Cutting such a player (basically saying that he shouldn't be playing in the NFL), is a very serious punishment. That's fine with me if that is the agreement between the players and the league. I don't see the patriots (after Myra) automatically taking such action against a top asset. All teams have different punishments depending on the severity of the offense and the value of the player.

 

[captain stone]

I agree. I am not sure he is worth the cap hit, but we can't change that until 2027 I believe, and at that point his play may have fallen off too.

If I interpreted what I read on Spotrac correctly, don't we save $4.3M by cutting him...?

Christian Barmore | NFL Contracts & Salaries | Spotrac.com

Christian Barmore signed a 4 year, $83,000,000 contract with the New England Patriots with an average annual salary of $20,750,000.

www.spotrac.com

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

If I interpreted what I read on Spotrac correctly, don't we save $4.3M by cutting him...?

Christian Barmore | NFL Contracts & Salaries | Spotrac.com

Christian Barmore signed a 4 year, $83,000,000 contract with the New England Patriots with an average annual salary of $20,750,000.

www.spotrac.com

You might be right. Good call. I am not sure working on my phone.

 

[TheRainMaker]

He’s been good, guy gets double teamed almost every play and is still in top 10 in pressures for interior linemen.

Well, let's test that observation. According to ESPN next gen stats, he's only getting double teamed 4% more at 67% than he did when he had a career season in 2023 at 63%. Does that warrant a significant drop in production? There are other DT's that have had similar double team rates who have overcome it and have had better statistical seasons such as Jefferey Simmons, Chris Jones, Old man Calias Campbell, Kobie Turner, Deforest Buckner and Quinnen Williams.

2023 NFL pass rush, run stop, blocking win rate rankings

Our win rate metics stack the NFL's best run-blocking, run-stopping, pass-protecting and pass-rushing players and teams.

www.espn.com

2025 NFL pass rush, run stop, blocking win rate rankings

Our win rate metrics stack the NFL's best teams and players in run blocking, run stopping, pass protection and pass rushing.

www.espn.com

Pro Football reference doesn't even have Barmore in the top 15 for DT's and they have him down with only 13 on the season.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2025/defense_advanced.htm

Keep in mind, these stats from PFF/ESPN/NFL etc. should be taken with a grain of salt because massive flaws can be found if you look for it. For example, they can take player A with no production and make him look on par in one particular category with Player B who is perennial ALL Pro. The real problem with these stat geeks are that you're going to get a different answer depending on where you look. They are only used for media to have material to gain clicks and for people to try to win internet arguments. The tried and true way has always been the eye test and the stats will match it. The fact that this question of Barmore's effectiveness has been brought up proves there's doubt.

 

[Gumby]

Re: long term. I think he still has potential to be back at 2023 form and we should not give up too quick. Trades can be made or him cut as late as [2026 season] Training Camp. There is room in a 90 man roster for him.

Re: now-past: Does anyone not give the thought that this was possibly distracting him? Accounts for lesser production.

-way back in TC /first 6 weeks we were all wondering about the Wed off that he got. Maybe it was Anger Mgmt. maybe it was Court mandated /lawyer-recommended ??? marital therapy? Or legal appointments?

Then mid season Wed-off stops. No requirement or did break a promise to Vrabes? Then end of season she files charges. Is there a trail of breadcrumbs here?

Hope for the best for him & team, but remain realist …. Sometimes folks are irrevocably self-destructive.

 

[mgteich]

.

Hope for the best for him & team, but remain realist …. Sometimes folks are irrevocably self-destructive.

OK, so the issue is NOT Barmore's value as a DT?

 

[Real fan 02]

If he hit is girlfriend, he should be off the team. Otherwise I would be ok if he is here next year. I hear what you are saying about Barmore not being very visible. When Williams was playing there was a lot of talk about having one of the best pair of interior D lineman. After Williams was out and teams were able to focus more on Barmore he has not delivered. What would have happened if the situation was reversed and Williams was left alone with no Barmore? My guess is that Williams is a better player so there would still be impact, just not as obvious. As far as on field character concerns go, having an edge/temper is a good thing. Vrabel has said that he likes Barmore's ability to just go over the line without taking it too far. In summary Barmore is still valuable even though he has not consistently lived up to his potential.

Agreed on the domestic issue part of it no man should ever harm a woman ever! What's helping Barmore and Diggs situation as they both have the same attorney is they weren't arrested.

The difference is in a situation like peppers is he was actually arrested I believe.

That actually is the likely reason why Barmore is available to play and not on NFI.

Barmore is a good player just not playing up to his full potential right now. We saw him shed double teams in the past.. he current has issues getting off one on one blocks

 

[Real fan 02]

???
1) Barmore is not the player he was.
2) As has been the case for 20 years, for some posters any player who isn't as good as his best year should be cut or trading for a high draft choice, especially if his reduction in talent is the result of injury or illness.
3) Barmore should be evaluated on what he can expect to contribute in 2026 and in the future next to Williams and a very good NT.
4) I see DT/DL as one of our lowest priorities to spend resources for an upgrade, although we should always be looking for upgrades. We have a top line in Williams-Barmore-Tonga. We have OK backups in Durden and Farmer. The DL priority is to re-sign Tonga.
5) We are even OK at ILB with a healthy trio of Spillane, Elliss and Gibbens. Sure, a top starter would be great, but the cap money is better spent elsewhere on the Defense: (EDGE, EDGE, SAFETY, CORNER).

Farmers a rookie and still developing, Durden is a solid veteran who provides great depth support. I'd like to add at LB, Edge as we need to athletic LBs who can cover.. on his illness remember Andrews was never the same player when he returned.

Aside from a few plays here or there this may be what this version of Barmore is for at least 2025.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Agreed on the domestic issue part of it no man should ever harm a woman ever! What's helping Barmore and Diggs situation as they both have the same attorney is they weren't arrested.

The difference is in a situation like peppers is he was actually arrested I believe.

That actually is the likely reason why Barmore is available to play and not on NFI.

Barmore is a good player just not playing up to his full potential right now. We saw him shed double teams in the past.. he current has issues getting off one on one blocks

Not to beat a dead horse, but it is sometimes difficult to evaluate interior DL. The new defensive scheme, lingering issues from the blood clots or some new minor injury could all contribute to him playing differently this year. To me the defense has too many holes to create another need if there is no good reason. That said, I won't be shocked if he is let go, it is definitely something to watch in the off season.

 

[Real fan 02]

Not to beat a dead horse, but it is sometimes difficult to evaluate interior DL. The new defensive scheme, lingering issues from the blood clots or some new minor injury could all contribute to him playing differently this year. To me the defense has too many holes to create another need if there is no good reason. That said, I won't be shocked if he is let go, it is definitely something to watch in the off season.

Agreed. I'm empathetic towards Barmore and his medical situation as he's a young man with children and I want him to be around for them. However unfortunately in the NFL when other factors off field doesn't match up with the on field play..then it never seems to end well. On evaluation or DL.. how does autry look in Houston? How did Vince look when he was here? Think of some interior D lineman around the league and how they are noticeable and make impacts.

 

[RobertWeathers]

How did Vince look when he was here?

Vince was an immovable object and when asked to push the pocket he did it on demand.

Barmore is not in the same catagory.

 

[Real fan 02]

Vince was an immovable object and when asked to push the pocket he did it on demand.

Barmore is not in the same catagory.

Agreed just making an example of NOTICEABLE DLs.. Vince wasn't making 20M and had to FIGHT for his contract..

 

[TheRainMaker]

How did Vince look when he was here?

Vince was awesome! He played the most difficult position in Bill's defense as a NT in a two gap 3-4. Many don't remember, but BB tried Seymour as NT as a rookie and it didn't go well as many thought it wouldn't. Once Bill quickly dictched that was when Seymour never looked back and the defense took off.

The difference between the two is that Barmore was supposed to be an up the field pass rushing DT while Vince Wilfork was a run stuffing NT in a traditional 2 gap 3-4. When Vince signed his deal, it was record setting for that time. Barmore's was in the top 10-15. As I've mentioned before, Barmore's number isn't that bad for one guy. However, they are paying two. There production just isn't there for either. Pats are eventually going to have to evaluate the amount of money tied up at that position and make a decision.

Wilfork signed to record deal

The New England Patriots have paid big money to their big man in the middle by inking nose tackle Vince Wilfork to a five-year, $40 million extension today, according to a league source.

www.espn.com

 

[TheRainMaker]

I think it was different times. Cap space was a little harder to come by and Bill was a different GM. Plus the team had less talent in 2022 than it did in 2004.

Pats didn't have a lot of big contracts aside from Brady, so there was no excuse not to tie up Seymour. In fact, the biggest contracts were recently off the books such as Law and Milloy. Bill just did things a lot different when deciding whether to re-sign players and his formula was correct the majority of the time. The only players from 2000-2023 that had success after they left the Pats were Ty Law (one year), Asante Samuel, Akiem Hicks, Chandler Jones and Joe Thuney. It's debatable which players you would've wanted Bill to sign, but the consensus would probably be Hicks, Jones and Thuney.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Pats didn't have a lot of big contracts aside from Brady, so there was no excuse not to tie up Seymour. In fact, the biggest contracts were recently off the books such as Law and Milloy. Bill just did things a lot different when deciding whether to re-sign players and his formula was correct about the majority of the time. The only players from 2000-2023 that had success after they left the Pats were Ty Law (one year), Asante Samuel, Akiem Hicks, Chandler Jones and Joe Thuney. It's debatable which players you would've wanted Bill to sign, but the consensus would probably be Hicks, Jones and Thuney.

I still grumble at Hicks not coming back.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

It's debatable which players you would've wanted Bill to sign, but the consensus would probably be Hicks, Jones and Thuney.

I was OK without Jones. He had this really weird thing of starting the year fast and finishing in a whimper. Hicks and Thuney I never understood.