Game Thoughts - We was robbed edition

[Robdude]

In the old days you could rate a post, if it was still like that today you'd get a -1 for this ridiculous post.

yeah I agree. Cam Newton had some great throws and was amazing when running. There is no way people can really bash him after that game. I also do not see why anyone here would want to bash him. He is one of the small group of players that show class after a win. As a pats fan I am upset with the loss but I respect CN more than I ever had before.

 

[yukon cornelius]

Um, what? Newton made some tremendous throws last night. The deep ball to Smith early, the TD to Olson was right on the button, and a bunch more good ones. Newton's 2013 vs. Tebow's best season:

Newton (2013): 63.2%, 16 td, 8 int, 91.8 rating
Tebow (2011): 46.5%, 12 td, 6 int, 84.9 rating

Not even close.

agreed


the only throws i see him struggle with are the short/intermediate throws, especially the outs.....he still sails some of those

beyond that.....kid is scary


can't tell if i like the attitude he & the team seem to be cultivating though.....has a little bit too much of the schwartz led lions for my taste

 

[Schnit]

I put a lot of the blame on Talib.

Not only were his plays foolish, but then he got benched and missed a good chunk of the game. He hurt the team twice with his actions, and gained nothing from it.

 

[Rob0729]

#Its a funny feeling but I agree with #2. We just look so much better on offense actually sustaining drives (before shooting ourselves in the foot Ridley/Mankins)

Totally disagree on Talib. Short/Quick guys aren't his strong suit but ejected over some Smith started is way over the top.

Rookie WRs did what they were asked and its encouraging. I think we are better off to some degree with KT over Collie.

My fear is we are turning into last years team by the time playoffs come. Very good offense with a Defense that is trending down to where it was the past few years. Cant get off the field on 3rd down, bad 2ndary play and no pass rush .

We really need Dennard/Talb back together. I think Dennard would have more suited to cover Smith.

He should have gotten his second personal foul in a matter of minutes and that could get him ejected from the game.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

#Its a funny feeling but I agree with #2. We just look so much better on offense actually sustaining drives (before shooting ourselves in the foot Ridley/Mankins)

Totally disagree on Talib. Short/Quick guys aren't his strong suit but ejected over some Smith started is way over the top.

Rookie WRs did what they were asked and its encouraging. I think we are better off to some degree with KT over Collie.

My fear is we are turning into last years team by the time playoffs come. Very good offense with a Defense that is trending down to where it was the past few years. Cant get off the field on 3rd down, bad 2ndary play and no pass rush .

We really need Dennard/Talb back together. I think Dennard would have more suited to cover Smith.

More or less generally agree except on Talib. He's lucky he wasn't tossed and if he were playing for anyone but the Pats I'd have been screaming at my TV that he should be ejected.

 

[Kdo5]

Here we go:

• Let's get it out of the way right off the bat. I think you can question whether it was a catchable ball on the last play, but you cannot question whether it was a penalty. If it wasn't pass interference, it clearly was holding or illegal contact. That said, the Pats didn't lose because of that play and there was no guarantee the Pats would have gotten a TD if they got the penalty call (especially if it was a holding call).
• It's hard for me to be negative today. I am never happy after a loss, but I saw this as a Rocky where two evenly matched boxer duked it out for 15 rounds until the end and Apollo Creed won on points. I am actually more encouraged about this team now than I was after some of the eariler wins. We are starting to see this offense come together nicely. There is little shame in this loss and it was just two very good teams slugging it out.
• Shane Vereen is a big difference maker on offense. Beyond his actual numbers, I think his presence and ability to be a dump off for Brady is big against opposing pass rushes. I always though the loss of a receiving RB (Vereen due to injury, Woodhead) was a bigger loss than Welker.
• I know they looked really bad at times and are consistently getting killed on this board, but I don't think the o-line played all that bad overall. People forget that the Panthers had Kaepernick on the run all last week and probably would have 9-10 sacks on him if he was mobile. After some struggles early, the o-line did a pretty good job keeping Brady upright. They are still not the o-line from last year, but there was improvement against one of the best d-lines in the league.
• Yesterday was Talib's worst day as a Patriot. And I was not a huge fan of his play for much of last year. I know Steve Smith isn't a good match up for Talib, but seemed faked out too much. And let's not even get into him losing his composure. That should never happen on the field. He probably should have been ejected after grabbing Smith's face mask in the end zone.
• The Pats really shot themselves in the foot early. Stupid bush league penalties by Talib and Mankins and Ridley's fumble were far bigger reasons the Pats lost than the non-call at the end of the game.
• I know people on this board hate Blount, but he has been a solid contributor all year. He will never be a lead RB, but as a rotational RB, he is up there in the league.
• Harmon did a pretty decent job filling in for Gregory. He certainly wasn't a liability and he made a few very good plays.
• I know Arrington is getting killed for giving up the last TD, but I also think he had a very good game overall. I think once he re-injured himself, he lost a lot of his mobility.
• I am very concerns about injuries to the secondary though. The Pats' top three CBs are beat up and one of their starting safeties has a broken thumb. That said, I expect all of them to play on Sunday night.
• This may have been Brady's best performance in a long time. Too bad it was in a loss. Funny how no one is talking about how age might have caught up to him which was the favorite hot topic in a lot of circles earlier this year.
• I like the progression of the two rookie WRs. Neither had really stand out games, but their quality of play is improving exponentially now that they are not asked to be primary WR and just compliments to what is starting to be a fairly deep receiving corp when you count Vereen and Gronk.
• Amendola looks to be getting close to 100%. He is starting to look like the guy the Pats expected when they signed him.

I know this looks like a post from a game the Pats won, but I guess I saw a team last night that played in a way that they could have beaten any team in the league (other than a few bad stretches) and they just played a team that played slightly better.

I admit to being somewhat critical of him earlier in the season, Blount is a solid runner even if his carries don't always look pretty. Glad to have him.

I totally agree about Brady. The people who have said he is declining because of age can be silent. The Panthers ferocious defense was picked apart by Brady. The final drive with 55 seconds was incredible. Shame it ended the way it did. I am very optimistic about the Pats offense.

The no call was BS. Gronk was reversing and held at the very same moment the DB changed direction for the interception. Gronk could have at least contested the pass if he wasn't driven backward.

The Panthers defense is overrated. The Pats were able to run and pass on them successfully and consistently. The problem was the offense didn't have the ball very much.

Great kick coverage tonight. Felt like they kept getting stopped before the 20. Tavon Wilson had a good night in that area.

I am also glad to see that they have put Boyce out to return. He has more ability to make the big play than Blount. Was a shame he didn't have the opportunity last night.

Disappointing loss but there were a lot of good things to be noted on offense and ST. I am deeply concerned going against the Broncos with a defense this decimated, might turn into a shoot out fast. 7-3...that's about where my expectations have been for this season a little over halfway through.

 

[patfanken]

Thanks Rob, you saved me a lot of time because you echoed most of my major points.

Except for the final score I felt the Pats did much better than I expected them to.

1. General Offense - The Pats moved the ball CONSISTENTLY. IIRC, there was only one 3 and out the entire game. Most of the time the Pats didn't score it was because they shot themselves in the foot rather the "the best D in the league" stopped them,

2. The Pats left a at least 13 points on the field with Mankins 15 yarder, Ridley's fumble as well as a few other plays that self destructed drives last night, especially in the first half.

3. The running game was far better than we had the right to expect. Ridley until his fumble,was especially effective. Blount, for the first time this season actually ran like a 250lb RB - It was his best game as a Patriot.

4. Usually I've defended Ridley's fumbles. Most of the time I've felt they were the result more because of something good the defense has done, than something bad he's done. But not this one. He was caught trying to do too much on this play, had come to a complete stop, and had the ball too unprotected. This one's on him.

5. I thought the OL won the battle with the the excellent front 7 of the Panthers....by a wide margin. The 2 sacks were the result of a either a blown assignment by Solder or a great scheme by the Panthers, take your pick. The other was a bad scheme by the Pats which Wendell having to block a rusher almost 2 gaps over and snap ,the ball. There will be people here ready to kill him for that play, but when I saw the replay, I thought either it was a bad scheme or someone else blew the assignment and Wendell was just trying to cover. Again take your pick.

But aside from those 2 plays Brady had more than enough time the rest of the time and was rarely hurried. This had to be better than most people thought. This was a Panther Defensive front that ran roughshod over a very good SF OL.

6 Aside from the leg whip, Marcus Cannon showed that he's a very capable starting RT. and I've very glad he apologized to the player after the game. Very classy

7. I know everyone is up in arms over the last play of the game. There is no question that there should have been a penalty on the play. I agree with you, Rob, that probably the correct call should have illegal contact giving the ball to the Pats on the 13 with another play.

8. What I don't understand is why everyone isn't up in arms about the so called "holding call" on 3rd and long vs McCourty. I watched those replays closely and it seemed to me that after a legal chuck, Olsen kept contact with McCourty and made NO attempt to disengage. It was like he was blocking him. That's why McCourty held his arms out to show he wasn't initiated the contact. Then the final insult was the flop. It was a horrible acting job. If anything it should have drawn a flag for unsportsmanlike conduct.

9. The run defense was simply OUTSTANDING. IIRC I think they held the powerful Panther running attack to under 50 yds combined by everyone not named Newton., It shows me that even with the losses of Mayo, WIlfolk and Kelly, we can put together a game plan against anyone that will control a good running attack.

10. Newton's big 3rd down run, where he made 3 guys miss him for a sack (Ninko twice) was one of the best plays I've seen this year. Also the throws he made to Smith and later Olsen for the TD were just perfect. I thought Newton played very well. He was the reason they were even in this game.

11. Like Rob said, I hate the lose, but I saw a llot more good come out of this game than I saw Bad. As every week goes by, I get more and more convinced that this is a team that can go deep into the playoffs

 

[Tunescribe]

I saw a llot more good come out of this game than I saw Bad. As every week goes by, I get more and more convinced that this is a team that can go deep into the playoffs

Offensively, perhaps. But I can't imagine how this defense is going to stop even an average passing attack without Dennard, without a healthy Talib, and without (at least temporarily) Gregory.

 

[pats4life12]

We were robbed that's all there is to it.Those refs single handedly took our chance at wining the game away.

 

[hellolin]

Cam Newton is severely overrated. Worse than Kaepernick was last year.

And at least Kaepernick can throw. Newton looks like Tim Tebow throwing out there half the time.

Not true, Cam's short balls are not as good as most of the QBs, but his mid range and long balls are very good, he has clearly improved as a QB in the past couple of years, he really wasn't all that bad in the game

 

[oldrover]

I think we'll do better the next time we see them.

 

[hyperpat]

- Ridley had some good runs prior to the fumble, but I do think he was trying to do too much. On one of the running plays [before the fumble] where the Pats pulled a few linemen, Ridley just kept going to the outside when he had a thin running lane upfield. On a play like that he needs to cut and get what he can. Usually he does, but he was looking a little Maroney like in the first quarter, starting to dance instead of planting his foot and heading north/south. On the fumble play he was, as PatFanKen observed, at a complete stop doing his Maroney impression. And he clearly didn't have the ball high and tight. Ridley is a very good runner who usually has good vision, but he was off against the Panthers and we know the result.

A question for PatFanKen & coaching types: why doesn't backs coach Ivan Fears insist that Ridley keep his other arm over the ball when he is at the line? Not being able to swing that arm would limit his ability to change direction quickly, but Ridley isn't a scat back with a lot of wiggle. And he could swing the arm once he gets in space. Seems it would help with the fumbling issue.

- As for Blount, I like what he brings, but think he could be more effective if he ran with his pads lower. He could really push the pile that way.

- Just a thought, but perhaps Talib's chippy behavior hurt the Pats twice: once with his penalty and as a contributor to Mankins' PF penalty. It's true that Mankins doesn't need much of an excuse to get nasty, but maybe Talib's early behavior was just enough to get Mankins extra revved. It's hard to say because ESPN never showed us a replay of the incident when Mankins' got his flag.

 

[Rob0729]

Thanks Rob, you saved me a lot of time because you echoed most of my major points.

Except for the final score I felt the Pats did much better than I expected them to.

1. General Offense - The Pats moved the ball CONSISTENTLY. IIRC, there was only one 3 and out the entire game. Most of the time the Pats didn't score it was because they shot themselves in the foot rather the "the best D in the league" stopped them,

2. The Pats left a at least 13 points on the field with Mankins 15 yarder, Ridley's fumble as well as a few other plays that self destructed drives last night, especially in the first half.

3. The running game was far better than we had the right to expect. Ridley until his fumble,was especially effective. Blount, for the first time this season actually ran like a 250lb RB - It was his best game as a Patriot.

4. Usually I've defended Ridley's fumbles. Most of the time I've felt they were the result more because of something good the defense has done, than something bad he's done. But not this one. He was caught trying to do too much on this play, had come to a complete stop, and had the ball too unprotected. This one's on him.

5. I thought the OL won the battle with the the excellent front 7 of the Panthers....by a wide margin. The 2 sacks were the result of a either a blown assignment by Solder or a great scheme by the Panthers, take your pick. The other was a bad scheme by the Pats which Wendell having to block a rusher almost 2 gaps over and snap ,the ball. There will be people here ready to kill him for that play, but when I saw the replay, I thought either it was a bad scheme or someone else blew the assignment and Wendell was just trying to cover. Again take your pick.

But aside from those 2 plays Brady had more than enough time the rest of the time and was rarely hurried. This had to be better than most people thought. This was a Panther Defensive front that ran roughshod over a very good SF OL.

6 Aside from the leg whip, Marcus Cannon showed that he's a very capable starting RT. and I've very glad he apologized to the player after the game. Very classy

7. I know everyone is up in arms over the last play of the game. There is no question that there should have been a penalty on the play. I agree with you, Rob, that probably the correct call should have illegal contact giving the ball to the Pats on the 13 with another play.

8. What I don't understand is why everyone isn't up in arms about the so called "holding call" on 3rd and long vs McCourty. I watched those replays closely and it seemed to me that after a legal chuck, Olsen kept contact with McCourty and made NO attempt to disengage. It was like he was blocking him. That's why McCourty held his arms out to show he wasn't initiated the contact. Then the final insult was the flop. It was a horrible acting job. If anything it should have drawn a flag for unsportsmanlike conduct.

9. The run defense was simply OUTSTANDING. IIRC I think they held the powerful Panther running attack to under 50 yds combined by everyone not named Newton., It shows me that even with the losses of Mayo, WIlfolk and Kelly, we can put together a game plan against anyone that will control a good running attack.

10. Newton's big 3rd down run, where he made 3 guys miss him for a sack (Ninko twice) was one of the best plays I've seen this year. Also the throws he made to Smith and later Olsen for the TD were just perfect. I thought Newton played very well. He was the reason they were even in this game.

11. Like Rob said, I hate the lose, but I saw a llot more good come out of this game than I saw Bad. As every week goes by, I get more and more convinced that this is a team that can go deep into the playoffs

Thanks Patsken, I take it as an honor that you feel my thread is good enough to make you avoid your weekly wrap up as its own thread.

All your points are solid. I want to add something to you #10 point. Not to take anything away from Newton because his run was amazing, but it looked that a o-lineman fell into Ninkovich's legs on his first sack attempt. I think if that didn't happen, Newton might have been sacked at that point and there would not have been any run.