From the sports guy..... The truth....

[pats1]

Let me remind you all of some more brilliant threads by marcus:

http://208.109.107.176/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=46487
"Patriots could have had...instead of Chad Jackson"

http://208.109.107.176/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=44937
"Pete Carroll era all over again"

http://208.109.107.176/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=44870
"Manning may have gotten into BB's head"

http://208.109.107.176/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=41425
"Bad precedent set with Branch trade"

http://208.109.107.176/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=41312
"The largest set of cunones in the NFL" (" The risk is that in one of Tom Brady's "prime years" a wasted opportunity for another Super Bowl. Only time will tell. But they truly pay NO attention to fan sentiment")

So I ask you - Is marcus actually a Patriots fan?

Or just a TROLL in disguise?

 

[AzPatsFan]

The original post is dead on. Add to that the fact we are getting almost no production from our draft class. I posted about a year ago how I felt our window to win was now, and would continue to shrink. I think they blew an opportunity at another superbowl run.

Now to repond to the above post. Denver was in the exact same position as we were. They choose to protect themselves and sign J. Walker. We could have done that as well. Would we be a better team with a Walker or Stallworth for Brady to throw to? The front office should have anticipated this possibility and acted. We better just hope our FA's are not still as coveted as in prior years or our window will shrink even further.

Javon Walker is damaged goods in 2006!

Why do you think Shanahan threw in the towel and is breaking in a rookie like Cutler? He will be good in 2007 when fully recovered, but he is not the Javon Walker the Broncs paid for. He is like Reche last season with the Bolts. Recovering from an ACL and not quite himself.

The Pats thought they were Ok for 2006 and had drafted for a receiver in 2007. Why pick up a guy who was not expected to help much in 2006 when 2006 is suddenly the problem?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Deion Branch didn't help them any better than 10-6 last year and IIRC, he had an extremely costly penalty on the play just before Tom threw the Int to Champ Bailey in the Denver game.

It's spilled milk, they've moved on, but a lot of fans haven't. IMO, the 4 losses have more to do with the entire team just playing flat than anything else.

Also, if they play the way they did last week, (no penalties, no turnovers, strong ST, strong D and an efficient offense) they'll beat anybody.

Remember Defense Wins Championships, not offense. How many rings does Peyton have?

Oddly it wasn't so much defense that won any of our championship games, it enabled an offense and it's FG kicker to. In all three games the defense battled for most of the game only to unravel or flat out collapse in the 4th quarter. Lucky for that defense we had an offense capable of battling back and a QB who were not to be denied.

Belichick preaches (much to the chagrin of some) keep it close, don't make the costly mistake and give yourselves a chance to win in the 4th quarter for a reason. Worked all three times.

And our 10-6 record last season had as much to do with our defense (lest you've forgotten the Starks-Beisel-Brown experience and Wilson and Samuel falling apart in the absence of Bruschi, Johnson and Harrison) being MIA and rendering the 2005 Patriots a .500 team as a result for much of that season - until we hit the soft spot in the schedule down the stretch (including Byron and the JAGS first up) and got some players in or back.

Last year we had no healthy featured running back and injured backups to boot, which resulted in handing the ball off excessively to Faulk in Denver - and that has proven to be a dicey proposition. Multiple mistakes took us out of that game long before the Bailey INT. Those were similar to what we've seen carry over into 2006. I think they result not just from lack of focus or carelessness, but as a result of limited talent being stressed over time to compensate for fairly apparent deficiencies. That flies in the face of Bill's mantra to just do your job, but it's human nature overriding system mantra. Guys sense others can't or aren't just doing their job and they try to do too much as a result - that was the snowball rolling downhill Faulk's fumble unleashed as players did the math and realized they had just allowed a 14 point swing in Denver in a playoff game. Everybody then tried to step up their game to recoup that, only in the final analysis they just made it worse almost by the moment.

This is a better team than that one, but mostly due to an improved defense. The offense unfortunately is again challenged although this year it's the receiving corps rather than the running game (although Dillon is still not Dillon, and neither is Maroney) providing the biggest challenge.

And last week they played the Houston Texans. I don't believe they will be available in the playoffs. Ditto the Detroit Lions or the Minnesota Vikings.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Let me remind you all of some more brilliant threads by marcus:

http://208.109.107.176/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=46487
"Patriots could have had...instead of Chad Jackson"

http://208.109.107.176/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=44937
"Pete Carroll era all over again"

http://208.109.107.176/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=44870
"Manning may have gotten into BB's head"

http://208.109.107.176/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=41425
"Bad precedent set with Branch trade"

http://208.109.107.176/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=41312
"The largest set of cunones in the NFL" (" The risk is that in one of Tom Brady's "prime years" a wasted opportunity for another Super Bowl. Only time will tell. But they truly pay NO attention to fan sentiment")

So I ask you - Is marcus actually a Patriots fan?

Or just a TROLL in disguise?

LOL This from the guy who just yesterday threatened to trade in his fanboy gold card if the Pats signed a steriod abusing punter...

 

[pats1]

LOL This from the guy who just yesterday threatened to trade in his fanboy gold card if the Pats signed a steriod abusing punter...

My application is still pending. Apparently things can be a little slow out there in the "NAP."

 

[marcus]

A TROLL?

Because I seek to ask legitimate questions about how BB/SP are operating this year?


I can assure you I am a big Patriots fann dating back to 1970, probably before many of you were born.


Don't attack people out here for starting a dialogue.....\


To blindly applaud everyhting the Patriots do without ever questioning is NOT being a fan...its just dumb.

 

[pats1]

A TROLL?

Because I seek to ask legitimate questions about how BB/SP are operating this year?


I can assure you I am a big Patriots fann dating back to 1970, probably before many of you were born.


Don't attack people out here for starting a dialogue.....\


To blindly applaud everyhting the Patriots do without ever questioning is NOT being a fan...its just dumb.

Anyone who compares Bill Belichick with Pete Carroll needs to schedule an appointment with a psychiatrist.

Oh, and I'm sure we'll get a "positive" thread from you too:

In February (quite conveniently)

 

[pats1]

The original post is dead on. Add to that the fact we are getting almost no production from our draft class. I posted about a year ago how I felt our window to win was now, and would continue to shrink. I think they blew an opportunity at another superbowl run.

Now to repond to the above post. Denver was in the exact same position as we were. They choose to protect themselves and sign J. Walker. We could have done that as well. Would we be a better team with a Walker or Stallworth for Brady to throw to? The front office should have anticipated this possibility and acted. We better just hope our FA's are not still as coveted as in prior years or our window will shrink even further.

Congratulations for completely ignoring the Patriots' philosophies.

They aren't a 4-stage, "make a run for it team," as so:

1) Load up on FAs
2) "Go for it"
3) Firesale
4) Rebuild
5) Repeat steps 1-4

No, "windows". No nothin'! It is like this:

1) Maintain a stable payroll and improve where needed through smart spending and drafting
2) Repeat step 1
3) Win 3 championships in 5 years.

...

Also, since when did Denver "sign" Javon Walker?

They traded for him.

Get your facts straight.

 

[pats1]

Is the point to just be better than Seattle?

The point is to be good enough to win a championship not only in the present, but in the future.

The Patriots have done just that. After adding another Lombardi to the case, I'll be looking forward to the TWO first rounders in the draft.

 

[BlitzFritz]

A TROLL?

Because I seek to ask legitimate questions about how BB/SP are operating this year?


I can assure you I am a big Patriots fann dating back to 1970, probably before many of you were born.


Don't attack people out here for starting a dialogue.....\


To blindly applaud everyhting the Patriots do without ever questioning is NOT being a fan...its just dumb.

I actually liked the original post. Clearly the WR situation did not turn out as planned, and to date, has looked like the achilles heel of this team. I find it almost comical that some people struggle to nod their head to that.

I also am amused by the common practice of diggin up old posts, take statements out of context, attack one's "fan-ness". Kind of like running for President after being a Senator. They can always find something in your old voting record to throw at you!!

Good luck in future critiques of the franchise my friend!! Keep on posting.

 

[pats1]

I actually liked the original post. Clearly the WR situation did not turn out as planned, and to date, has looked like the achilles heel of this team. I find it almost comical that some people struggle to nod their head to that.

I also am amused by the common practice of diggin up old posts, take statements out of context, attack one's "fan-ness". Kind of like running for President after being a Senator. They can always find something in your old voting record to throw at you!!

Good luck in future critiques of the franchise my friend!! Keep on posting.

I agree. Good luck to marcus in his future critiques.

I always need some good comedy.

(But if I want intelligent discussion, I'll turn to T-Shirt, AndyJohnson, PatFanKen, or PatsNutMe, or many others)

 

[belichickaholic]

Oddly it wasn't so much defense that won any of our championship games, it enabled an offense and it's FG kicker to. In all three games the defense battled for most of the game only to unravel or flat out collapse in the 4th quarter. Lucky for that defense we had an offense capable of battling back and a QB who were not to be denied.

Belichick preaches (much to the chagrin of some) keep it close, don't make the costly mistake and give yourselves a chance to win in the 4th quarter for a reason. Worked all three times.

And our 10-6 record last season had as much to do with our defense (lest you've forgotten the Starks-Beisel-Brown experience and Wilson and Samuel falling apart in the absence of Bruschi, Johnson and Harrison) being MIA and rendering the 2005 Patriots a .500 team as a result for much of that season - until we hit the soft spot in the schedule down the stretch (including Byron and the JAGS first up) and got some players in or back.

Last year we had no healthy featured running back and injured backups to boot, which resulted in handing the ball off excessively to Faulk in Denver - and that has proven to be a dicey proposition. Multiple mistakes took us out of that game long before the Bailey INT. Those were similar to what we've seen carry over into 2006. I think they result not just from lack of focus or carelessness, but as a result of limited talent being stressed over time to compensate for fairly apparent deficiencies. That flies in the face of Bill's mantra to just do your job, but it's human nature overriding system mantra. Guys sense others can't or aren't just doing their job and they try to do too much as a result - that was the snowball rolling downhill Faulk's fumble unleashed as players did the math and realized they had just allowed a 14 point swing in Denver in a playoff game. Everybody then tried to step up their game to recoup that, only in the final analysis they just made it worse almost by the moment.

This is a better team than that one, but mostly due to an improved defense. The offense unfortunately is again challenged although this year it's the receiving corps rather than the running game (although Dillon is still not Dillon, and neither is Maroney) providing the biggest challenge.

And last week they played the Houston Texans. I don't believe they will be available in the playoffs. Ditto the Detroit Lions or the Minnesota Vikings.

Mo, I always love reading your posts and totally respect your opinions, but I find myself totally disagreeing on alot of what your saying here. I think your seriously overlooking the strength of those Championship teams.

In 2001, they shut down Martz and his high powered offense (an offense that no one else in the league was able to shut down) for 3 quarters, then they were exhausted, allowing the Rams to sneak back in, before finally regrouping and shutting them down in the final minutes. The offense scored one TD in that game.

In 2003, the defense pitched a shutout for most of the first half. Adam missed 2 FG and shanked a squib kick leading to 14-10 at the half, when the score should have been 20-3, The score would never have been as close as it was. Then in the second half, they had to deal with losing Rodney and Geno. Again, IMO, the score should never have been as close as it was. And if you recall, the offense could have put the game away, but made mistakes that changed momentum.

2004 was a more balanced offense and defense, but the fact that they played a front that the Eagles had never encountered before cannot be overlooked in that win.

The Denver game, IMO, the turning point in the game was Deion's penalty leading to Tom's Int. If he doesn't take that penalty, they're on the 5 yard line and can run it in and Tom doesn't have to throw the ball at all. (I'm aware that Ashworth was sick, and Faulk's fumble was bad but again, IMO, the penalty was Killer.

What was the last offensive team to win a SB? I agree that we had a stronger O last year, but we didn't get to the SB did we? I guess i'm just the ultimate homer and believe in these players that are here. Reche Caldwell is a fine receiver and it bugs me when people say he's not. Deion Branch and David Givens were only in their second seasons, when we won in 2003. Both receivers missed alot of games in 2004. How'd we manage to win then? How are we managing to win now?

 

[pats1]

Mo, I always love reading your posts and totally respect your opinions, but I find myself totally disagreeing on alot of what your saying here. I think your seriously overlooking the strength of those Championship teams.

In 2001, they shut down Martz and his high powered offense (an offense that no one else in the league was able to shut down) for 3 quarters, then they were exhausted, allowing the Rams to sneak back in, before finally regrouping and shutting them down in the final minutes. The offense scored one TD in that game.

In 2003, the defense pitched a shutout for most of the first half. Adam missed 2 FG and shanked a squib kick leading to 14-10 at the half, when the score should have been 20-3, The score would never have been as close as it was. Then in the second half, they had to deal with losing Rodney and Geno. Again, IMO, the score should never have been as close as it was. And if you recall, the offense could have put the game away, but made mistakes that changed momentum.

2004 was a more balanced offense and defense, but the fact that they played a front that the Eagles had never encountered before cannot be overlooked in that win.

The Denver game, IMO, the turning point in the game was Deion's penalty leading to Tom's Int. If he doesn't take that penalty, they're on the 5 yard line and can run it in and Tom doesn't have to throw the ball at all. (I'm aware that Ashworth was sick, and Faulk's fumble was bad but again, IMO, the penalty was Killer.

What was the last offensive team to win a SB? I agree that we had a stronger O last year, but we didn't get to the SB did we? I guess i'm just the ultimate homer and believe in these players that are here. Reche Caldwell is a fine receiver and it bugs me when people say he's not. Deion Branch and David Givens were only in their second seasons, when we won in 2003. Both receivers missed alot of games in 2004. How'd we manage to win then? How are we managing to win now?

Agreed through and through.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The thread sucked but all the contrasting views with substantiation are makin' it rock!

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The original post is dead on. Add to that the fact we are getting almost no production from our draft class. I posted about a year ago how I felt our window to win was now, and would continue to shrink. I think they blew an opportunity at another superbowl run.

I scanned this thread noting the standard back and forth over money not spent and a WR not here. A fairly frequent topic every time someone gets nervous. What got me wasn't the regurgitated Pats are cheap, Pats are smart arguments, it was the line I've bolded above. Folks, a statement like this is perplexing enough, but with so many participants in this thread I'm shocked such a statement was left unexamined. :wha:

 

[lutontown_fc]

Let me remind you all of some more brilliant threads by marcus:

http://208.109.107.176/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=46487
"Patriots could have had...instead of Chad Jackson"

http://208.109.107.176/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=44937
"Pete Carroll era all over again"

http://208.109.107.176/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=44870
"Manning may have gotten into BB's head"

http://208.109.107.176/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=41425
"Bad precedent set with Branch trade"

http://208.109.107.176/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=41312
"The largest set of cunones in the NFL" (" The risk is that in one of Tom Brady's "prime years" a wasted opportunity for another Super Bowl. Only time will tell. But they truly pay NO attention to fan sentiment")

So I ask you - Is marcus actually a Patriots fan?

Or just a TROLL in disguise?

Colts troll would be my guess - what Patriots fan would seriously think that Manning had 'gotten into BB's head'?

There are a couple just like him on this board, Marcus is just one of the least subtle - and the 'ive been a fan since before you were born' retort was all too predictable.

NM

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Colts troll would be my guess - what Patriots fan would seriously think that Manning had 'gotten into BB's head'?

There are a couple just like him on this board, Marcus is just one of the least subtle - and the 'ive been a fan since before you were born' retort was all too predictable.

NM

Exactly, that secret Arizona Cardinals fan who posts here incessantly alsways says the same thing too. Troll alert.

EDIT: I do not claim that Marcus is a Troll

 

[fgssand]

The basic problem for many poster heree is they have an insatiable need to overlook the positive coming out of the BB/SP era during our "Team of the Decade" run here in the 2,000's.

They are very much like the Mother Rabbit described below - I would say the Sports Guy has become the biggest Mother of them all.

"As far as any mother rabbit eating a baby rabbit, sometimes it will think that a baby rabbit is a mouse or something and destroy it. Sometimes stress may cause a rabbit to eat its young. Some think that there is something lacking in the diet. In case this is so, offer some alfalfa hay occasionally. If the doe eats the babies as she is giving birth, I think it is because she doesn't know what is coming out of her and will eat the babies as she would her afterbirth. This is caused by inexperience being a mother, though, and she should be given another opportunity.

In any case, do not tolerate a doe eating the young after her second or third litter.


Dr. Mark Waldo

 

[marcus]

The "conspracy theory" drivel is ridiculous.

I am not a troll.....BUT even if I were what difference does it make?

Why not just focus on discussing ideas and NOT attack the posters every time anyone says something that is even slightly out of the main line of thinking.


My sole goal in posting is to stimulate discussion of ideas...NOT to provoke or insult anyone...so how about just discuss the ideas and

forget about the idiotic "THIS GUY IS A TROLL" drivel. This board shines when posters can just discuss rationally and stay away from the ridiculous "HE IS NOT ONE OF US" crap.

 

[Pats726]

Players contracts pay out over the course of the regular season. Teams don't pay players for the playoffs, the league does via playoff shares. Therefore deals must be signed before the end of the regular season to count any bonus money or amortization of bonus against the current season cap. The time to increase salaries actually passed about a month ago.

You may be correct about that..but the more I think about it, the more it makes no sense to end now. In the new year any player move would NOT be covered under the cap? I believe the cap time extends into February and moves made then would be made under the cap..so extensions could be fone {PST season and cobered.

If they in fact offered him the money if he'd dump the agent, then maybe they didn't think it was all that unreasonable - and they were just playing hardball and determined not to pay a nickle more than they had to until they had to. If that's the case perhaps they did in fact put winning the contract battle ahead of winning the football war. And an emerging approach to the growing cap and rookie contract limits (not more than 4 year deal for other than first rounders) appears to be extending players earlier (once you have identified their value) before the FA salary curve under a rapidly expanding cap gets even steeper.

I never thought it was am issue about the money per se. but Deion wanted the last year removed and the Pats did not wish to do that..whether it was the agent or Branch is moot..because he put himself in a poor situation leaving the Patriots few options.

I always said Branch was not an elite WR, but he was a #1 in a system that is difficult to master. Hopefully Jackson will develop into a WR who can master the system, but the early results are not a slam dunk. Branch was able to show not only he grasped it conceptually but could execute it in practice and on the field early in his career. From what we hear CJ grasped it conceptually but whether due entirely to injuries or something else altogether, he has yet to show he can execute those concepts at NFL game speed. And as a tea leaf reader I'm a little uncomfortable with the way Brady has spoken about him almost from the get go. Something isn't clicking when Brady doesn't gush about you.

One of Branch's strengths was he was a solid above average route runner..so he had a leg up on other receivers. But don't compare what Branch was after years here to new receivers..hardly fair at all. Time will tell about who steps up and who doesn't in the next years.

As for the special link not mattering to Deion, this isn't love - it's the business end of football. He had something we need, and he was willing to provide it but not for a nickle less than he could get from someone else. More often than not at the end of the day that's what motivates professional athletes. Brady has something we need too, only he (and a few others) are willing to discount it because we have something they want more than a few more millions - an opportunity to be part of something special to them, winning multiple championships with a career team. That apparently didn't matter to Deion nearly as much as maximizing his immediate earning potential. Although I don't doubt in time he will better appreciate that Brady (and the system) had something that all QB's (and systems) don't have, and as a result he will likely not fare as well career wise when all is said and done. But for him the most important thing over the last year was securing his family's financial future.
The players have a mantra they often impart to young guys coming up. When your career is over all you will have is your money and your memories. Deion has two rings and a Superbowl MVP trophy, and for most NFL players that more than covers for the memories.

That is all well and good that he take care of his finanxial future..Does the end justify the means?...That he did it like a turd is hardly a good example of anything good....I would have had no problem with him if he honored his contract and then left.. BUT to me he did it the wromg way totally..he may ta;l a;; that good about Seattle and such, but uf dioesn'y live up to the bpatload of money paid, it will not be good for him.