From PFT: Mangini wishes he had take-backsies

[Snapper]

I'm speculating here, but perhaps Mangini did get the ball rolling by alerting stadium security bout the camera man - but it could have been Tannenbaum who escalated the incident by getting NFL security and State Police involved.

This is exactly what I believe.

I think Mangini was just doing a tit-for-tat: the Pats had his guy stop taping, so he was gonna have the Pats guy stop taping. I think he saw it as part of the inherently understood gamesmanship between teams and coaches.

Like you said, the whole thing became an issue when it went beyond simple stadium security.

Tannenbaum's a conniving opportunist and compulsive liar who seizes any chance to put the screws to the Patriots. He wouldn't give a damn about any unspoken coaches' understanding. I'm convinced he was the one who escalated the issue.

 

[borg]

I find it fascinating that twice now young, up and coming coaches have felt a need to elevate their self worth/public perception by attemting to tear down Bill. Toss in Rex and his ring kissing disses. These guys want to be on top of the coaching pedestal without putting in the time and work...without achieving 5% of what Bill has accomplished. They want the respect without earning it.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Mangini has manboobs

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Goodell is a former NY Jet employee...FACT

...
as Malcolm X once so eloquently put it...you've been BAMBOOZLED.
Bamboozled - YouTube

[This won't be popular here, so if anyone wants to flame me just say you did and don't.]

Joker, I share your feelings and agree with nearly everything you said, but Goodell had to reach a "political" settlement as much as an "equitable" settlement.

This was a case where he had players and owners calling for suspensions and worse. There are, among fans and even players with lower IQ's, still strong sentiments that Goodell destroyed the tapes and evidence as part of a cover-up of even worse misdeeds (it is a fact that he destroyed them very quickly) to protect one of his most important and powerful owners. I live outside the borders of Patriot Nation and travel all over the country as well; in most places it is a "given" that the Pats "cheated" and that they got away with more than that for which they were held accountable.

I don't buy any of that, but it was part of the environment in which Goodell had to make a decision quickly.

By handing down a "verdict" that essentially pleased no one (Pats supporters feel the team was hosed for the valid reasons you cite. Pats haters feel it was all a huge cover-up), he did just about the best he could do under the circumstances, IMO.

By fining the Pats more than any organization in history and pulling a first round pick, he treated the team harshly.

By not suspending Belichick and not carrying on a months-long "investigation/witch hunt" (which would have been leaked/opened inevitably to the public) and by destroying the materials that would be the guts of such an "investigation/witch hunt," he arrived at a messy conclusion of an affair that never would have occurred in the first place if BB had obeyed his memo.

 

[PatsDeb]

They talk.

BB and Mangini have houses on Marthas Vineyard. Everything Mangini knows he learned from BB.

I don't believe this for a minute.

 

[Clonamery]

I don't believe this for a minute.

You shouldn't. Triumph is the Jets GM Mike Tannenbaum.

 

[Steve102]

The Bible talks of welcoming the Prodigal son back. Belichick ought to do the same. Eric has learned his lesson, and the Pats and Bill need and could use his help.

God can forgive Mangini. I bet Bill will not.

 

[Sivy]

Not sure about Mangini but I do love this thread title

 

[randomk1]

The most idiotic argument i get against NE is that : what have they done after Spygate?

Perfect season,2 SB appearance and if i'm not mistaken the best record in the league over that time span? Not to mention Brady putting up ridiculous numbers year after year.

It's almost as if NE never lost games prior to spygate and they must uphold this ridiculous standard. If they lose a playoff game all of the "you see?" idiots come out of their holes. Nevermind that NE has been rebuilding and has had a complete roster turnaround.

It's ******* idiotic. Haters gonna hate and see what they want to see i guess.

Vengeance will be ours in the near future!!

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Look Fredo only regrets it, because he is now blacklisted. Nobody is going to give him a head coaching job again. Usually if you were a good coordinator, you can go back to being a coordinator (Romeo, Josh, et al) and then you can once again elevate yourself back into a Head Coach job. Fredo's problem is that no other HC is ever going to trust him. "If the guy turned on his mentor, whose to say he would double cross me?" has to be the thought running through any HC head when Fredo's name comes up.

You can be forgiven for alot of transgressions in this world, however, treason is usually punished by death.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

All I have to say to say is that currently Bill Belichcik is acting as his own DC. Eric Mangini was and is a good coach and a good DC. I think Bill ought to try to hire Eric to help straighten out the Patriots Defense, which is NOT a league leading squad, unlike the Offense.

The Bible talks of welcoming the Prodigal son back. Belichicik ought to do the same. Eric has learned his lesson, and the Pats and Bill need and could use his help.

Eric was only ever a DC for one season, and he ended up having Bill take the reins out of his hands midway through it... Players don't respond to Eric when he's placed in a position of authority. There is a reason for that. He's always been an arrogant little turd who thought he was the smartest guy in the room. That's why he landed in the swamp when he did. Bill told him he was not ready and the JETS were one screwed up outfit to boot, and Eric convinced himself Bill was jealous and threatened and trying to hold him back because he feared him...LOL He used to love to talk about what WE did in Cleveland back in the day, when HE was the friggin' waterboy... He's always had delusions of grandeur and genius, and that's all they were. Local mediots built him up to be a savant - in part because he wowed them with his insider tales of the early days. Turns out if he was it was an idiot savant...

Cleveland allowed Eric to convince himself he'd done no real damage. Being reduced to working for ESPN like an over the hill player has convinced him otherwise. That is all this is. He regrets making a mistake that ruined his career and seems to retain sufficient legs to keep it ruined... Hell, RAC didn't even hire him when he got promoted in KC... Eric took RAC's HC dream gig and then threw their good buddy and well respected Ravens personnel man George Kolkinis under the bus in Cleveland after one season just to try and hang on for another year or so. He's a pathological backstabber who can have all the meaningless regrets he wants because he doesn't learn from his mistakes.

It's never Eric's fault. Now he's trying to blame it all on unforseen over reaction. And there was certainly plenty of that driven by the media and some clowns on the competition committee who were advising the rookie commishioner, one of whom is now a collegue of Eric's at ESPN... Another of whom finally lost his hyped up dean of coaches post in Tennessee and is starting over in St. Louis by stubbornly holding his DC position open for some clown who used to work for him who has been indefinitely suspended by the same commishioner for running a freakin' pay for play and bounty system in violation of cap rules and in defiance of league efforts to make the game safer...

Eric won't be back here because we still have the guy who taught him everything worth knowing that he thinks he knows. He's teaching those to other guys these days.

 

[Jackson 2]

[This won't be popular here, so if anyone wants to flame me just say you did and don't.]

Joker, I share your feelings and agree with nearly everything you said, but Goodell had to reach a "political" settlement as much as an "equitable" settlement.

This was a case where he had players and owners calling for suspensions and worse. There are, among fans and even players with lower IQ's, still strong sentiments that Goodell destroyed the tapes and evidence as part of a cover-up of even worse misdeeds (it is a fact that he destroyed them very quickly) to protect one of his most important and powerful owners. I live outside the borders of Patriot Nation and travel all over the country as well; in most places it is a "given" that the Pats "cheated" and that they got away with more than that for which they were held accountable.

I don't buy any of that, but it was part of the environment in which Goodell had to make a decision quickly.

By handing down a "verdict" that essentially pleased no one (Pats supporters feel the team was hosed for the valid reasons you cite. Pats haters feel it was all a huge cover-up), he did just about the best he could do under the circumstances, IMO.

By fining the Pats more than any organization in history and pulling a first round pick, he treated the team harshly.

By not suspending Belichick and not carrying on a months-long "investigation/witch hunt" (which would have been leaked/opened inevitably to the public) and by destroying the materials that would be the guts of such an "investigation/witch hunt," he arrived at a messy conclusion of an affair that never would have occurred in the first place if BB had obeyed his memo.

A good analysis. While I live in MA, I travel pretty frequently and agree that the vast majority of fans from other places say that it's a given that the Patriots cheated and that fact is a large reason why the SBs were won. Now, some genuinely feel that way, but for many others, it's just a ball-busting strategy designed to get under Pats' fans' skins (and, quite frankly, a pretty successful strategy). As far as the blame pie is concerned, I blame BB (who, by the way, is probably my favorite sports figure of all time) for not just obeying the GD memo when it came out. I think he under-estimated Goodell's "new sheriff in town" personna and it proved costly in a lot of different ways. Secondly, I blame Bob Kraft and the entire Pats organization for not defending themselves with any sort of vigor. I've always felt that we, the fans, have taken the brunt of the abuse for Spygate as opposed to the players, management and team at large. Don't get me wrong, they've paid a hefty price, but I don't believe that they've been forced to defend all of this as much as we have.

 

[Tunescribe]

[This won't be popular here, so if anyone wants to flame me just say you did and don't.]

Joker, I share your feelings and agree with nearly everything you said, but Goodell had to reach a "political" settlement as much as an "equitable" settlement.

This was a case where he had players and owners calling for suspensions and worse. There are, among fans and even players with lower IQ's, still strong sentiments that Goodell destroyed the tapes and evidence as part of a cover-up of even worse misdeeds (it is a fact that he destroyed them very quickly) to protect one of his most important and powerful owners. I live outside the borders of Patriot Nation and travel all over the country as well; in most places it is a "given" that the Pats "cheated" and that they got away with more than that for which they were held accountable.

I don't buy any of that, but it was part of the environment in which Goodell had to make a decision quickly.

By handing down a "verdict" that essentially pleased no one (Pats supporters feel the team was hosed for the valid reasons you cite. Pats haters feel it was all a huge cover-up), he did just about the best he could do under the circumstances, IMO.

By fining the Pats more than any organization in history and pulling a first round pick, he treated the team harshly.

By not suspending Belichick and not carrying on a months-long "investigation/witch hunt" (which would have been leaked/opened inevitably to the public) and by destroying the materials that would be the guts of such an "investigation/witch hunt," he arrived at a messy conclusion of an affair that never would have occurred in the first place if BB had obeyed his memo.

You give Goodell way too much credit for being a wise leader. He was new to the job and in over his head. He wanted to establish his "authori-tah" as the tough new sheriff in town and overreacted under pressure from those of anti-Patriots persuasion who sought to take advantage. Sensational media hysteria added fuel to the fire and facts of the matter quickly succumbed to a "kill the cheaters" witch hunt. No way this should've cost the Patriots a first-round draft pick. No way.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You give Goodell way too much credit for being a wise leader. He was new to the job and in over his head. He wanted to establish his "authori-tah" as the tough new sheriff in town and overreacted under pressure from those of anti-Patriots persuasion who sought to take advantage. Sensational media hysteria added fuel to the fire and facts of the matter quickly succumbed to a "kill the cheaters" witch hunt. No way this should've cost the Patriots a first-round draft pick. No way.

Yup, if anything he destroyed the tapes before any more of them leaked out and people realized what nonsense they entailed - just MOTS crap everyone in the stadium could see from their seats... And before any steam could be built to investigate claims that everybody does it...and in fact a couple of teams were actually rumored to be attempting to use their tapes in game...

This technical violation of a poorly worded memo paled in comparison to past transgressions like cap evasion by the Broncos whose titles earned with guys they otherwise could not have afforded on their roster never seem to be questioned because they got slapped on the wrist by the former commissioner to the tune of losing a couple of mid round picks. Spygate on the other hand was an opportunity to take Belichick down a notch if not altogether and the media and his jealous rivalsjumped on it and ran with it for all it was worth before cooler heads could prevail.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Yup, if anything he destroyed the tapes before any more of them leaked out and people realized what nonsense they entailed - just MOTS crap everyone in the stadium could see from their seats... And before any steam could be built to investigate claims that everybody does it...and in fact a couple of teams were actually rumored to be attempting to use their tapes in game...

This technical violation of a poorly worded memo paled in comparison to past transgressions like cap evasion by the Broncos whose titles earned with guys they otherwise could not have afforded on their roster never seem to be questioned because they got slapped on the wrist by the former commissioner to the tune of losing a couple of mid round picks. Spygate on the other hand was an opportunity to take Belichick down a notch if not altogether and the media and his jealous rivalsjumped on it and ran with it for all it was worth before cooler heads could prevail.

In essence, it seemed BB was given Manslaughter-1 for a jaywalking ticket.

It would be great if someone could really detail what happened, if the information obtained could be obtained via other methods (like having 2 people in the stands with binoculars and another to take notes....which did and probably does happen).

And to diagnose the rule as it was written. Granted BB appeared to go against the memo, but is the memo the actual rule? I thought the rule pretty muc hstated that you couldn't use any film during the game (which implies it could be used after the game).

I know the media has real interest, but it never seems that anyone tries to provide any depth to the topic, it's all assumed fact that the Patriots success was built entirely on this one piece of information as if the other 1000 ways coaches prepare their teams has any effect.

 

[IllegalContact]

wow...this thing is 5 years old and you guys are still full of piss and vinegar over it.

if BB can bring back a backstabbing deion branch.......if the pats can bring back mankins after the crap that he said, then forgiveness to the point where mangini has an opportunity under BB again is certainly a possibility.

BB doesn't do grudges.....he does math.......if mangini can factor in and make a situation better, then BB will bring him in.

 

[Deus Irae]

...BB doesn't do grudges.....

 

[PatsFanSince74]

A good analysis. While I live in MA, I travel pretty frequently and agree that the vast majority of fans from other places say that it's a given that the Patriots cheated and that fact is a large reason why the SBs were won. Now, some genuinely feel that way, but for many others, it's just a ball-busting strategy designed to get under Pats' fans' skins (and, quite frankly, a pretty successful strategy). As far as the blame pie is concerned, I blame BB (who, by the way, is probably my favorite sports figure of all time) for not just obeying the GD memo when it came out. I think he under-estimated Goodell's "new sheriff in town" personna and it proved costly in a lot of different ways. Secondly, I blame Bob Kraft and the entire Pats organization for not defending themselves with any sort of vigor. I've always felt that we, the fans, have taken the brunt of the abuse for Spygate as opposed to the players, management and team at large. Don't get me wrong, they've paid a hefty price, but I don't believe that they've been forced to defend all of this as much as we have.

Hey! Did you copy that from some of my posts over the years? That's pretty much what I've been saying. You must be a very astute and brilliant person.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

You give Goodell way too much credit for being a wise leader. He was new to the job and in over his head. He wanted to establish his "authori-tah" as the tough new sheriff in town and overreacted under pressure from those of anti-Patriots persuasion who sought to take advantage. Sensational media hysteria added fuel to the fire and facts of the matter quickly succumbed to a "kill the cheaters" witch hunt. No way this should've cost the Patriots a first-round draft pick. No way.

I disagree re Goodell's rookie status. But, otherwise, if this were to be judged purely on equity, then you are right. But, as I said in my post, this was as much a political decision as a decision on the facts.

 

[IllegalContact]

really? that would be a waste of BB's time.....all Jackson provided was motivation