Florio: Pats shopped Gronk before the draft, targeting Mayfield?

[IcyPatriot]

Don't really care one way or the other ... it's a business.

 

[luuked]

Those two, all the other times Gronk has pulled up a bit lame in-game but not added to the injury report, all the other players in this era for this team that have sustained those types of injuries, etc. LOL at the notion that the same conditioning staff that Gronk had spent most of his career around and got handed their walking papers after 2015 “did their job good enough”. And, to be honest, after a relatively healthy 2016, this one doesn’t seem to be trending up considering the rash of those nagging types of injuries in 2017 either.

Please show me 2-3 times where Gronk pulled up "lame" and it was not related to him getting hit or falling to the ground in the most awkward way possible and missed more than a snap or was less efficient for the rest of the game. I can't recall any but would love to see them to get a better idea why Nash was fired.


People were praising the entire health related operation for how well 2014 went. Injuries are often completely randomly distributed.

The difference between this and the previous "staff" is essentially Harold Nash. Because Moses Cabrera who runs the shop now and many of the lower grunts in that dept. were already part of that staff that you LOL at but seem to have less of an issue with now.

 

[DarrylS]

Do you all remember the week before the draft when Gronk was asked what his status was and if he was playing for the Pats in 2018 at an event at Gillette... his highly intelligent and well thought out response:

"Status is: Doing really great. I've been riding dirt bikes, training really hard. I can VROOM VROOM really good. I can ride that bike like no other, and my speed is up there."

BB must have been furious with these antics and made a few calls to see if someone else was interested in him or he could have gotten a few calls, all of this is expected and put under the category of BB doing his due diligence to try to make this team better... Gronk at that time was a really bad roadside attraction.

 

[oceansizer]

Another press speculation heating up the atmosphere. Gronk is still with the team and that matters.

 

[Triumph]

Im not surprised that BB was shopping him.

Im not surprised that teams were not willing to pay his asking price when you consider his injury history and recent contract demands.

Gronk only has value to the Pats unless he came on the cheap to another team.

 

[Triumph]

Wouldn't it be just as legitimate to say: Gronk shopped himself before draft, targeting WWE?

Word

Just like Butler got himself benched.

 

[lancerman]

Im not surprised that BB was shopping him.

Im not surprised that teams were not willing to pay his asking price when you consider his injury history and recent contract demands.

Gronk only has value to the Pats unless he came on the cheap to another team.

He has value to other teams in that they would pay him top dollar. But if it’s between Gronk and someone whose top 5 and under 26/27 with a relatively clean history from an injury standpoint, go with the surer thing.

Here’s the biggest issue
2011: Gronk injured in playoffs and is s glorified decoy in the Super Bowl
2012: Gronk injured right before AFCCG and we lose
2013: Gronk injured most of the year and it’s the last really “bad” year the Pats had
2014: Gronk healthy all year and we win Super Bowl
2015: Gronk misses a small amount of time but in truth the game he got injured in was basically the reason we played at Mile High so it has a negative impact on the season
2016: Gronk doesn’t finish the season, thankfully we had the foresight to snag Bennett to mitigate it and won the Super Bowl
2017: Gronk healthy most of the year but does his stupid wrestling move to get suspended for a game

That’s a lot of risk to give up a lot in anytype of trade

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

Its more the Patriots targeted Mayfield were willing to lose Gronk for Mayfield.
Mayfield went number 1.
Conversations stopped at number 2.
Repeat if we wanted Allen if we wanted Jackson if we wanted Darnold if we wanted Rosen we had a great chance on any of them.
Again Jets and Bills think they won the lottery.
Lets hope its not true.

He has value to other teams in that they would pay him top dollar. But if it’s between Gronk and someone whose top 5 and under 26/27 with a relatively clean history from an injury standpoint, go with the surer thing.

Here’s the biggest issue
2011: Gronk injured in playoffs and is s glorified decoy in the Super Bowl
2012: Gronk injured right before AFCCG and we lose
2013: Gronk injured most of the year and it’s the last really “bad” year the Pats had
2014: Gronk healthy all year and we win Super Bowl
2015: Gronk misses a small amount of time but in truth the game he got injured in was basically the reason we played at Mile High so it has a negative impact on the season
2016: Gronk doesn’t finish the season, thankfully we had the foresight to snag Bennett to mitigate it and won the Super Bowl
2017: Gronk healthy most of the year but does his stupid wrestling move to get suspended for a game

That’s a lot of risk to give up a lot in anytype of trade[/Q

 

[Kontradiction]

Please show me 2-3 times where Gronk pulled up "lame" and it was not related to him getting hit or falling to the ground in the most awkward way possible and missed more than a snap or was less efficient for the rest of the game. I can't recall any but would love to see them to get a better idea why Nash was fired.

Without reviewing the film, none of them are on YouTube or online. But if you’ve watched this team, you’ve seen numerous instances of other receivers and Gronk pulling up and limping without hits. Sometimes they come back into the game, other times they don’t.

As for everything else, why do YOU think Nash was fired? Because I can only think of one real reason after the 2013 and 2015 campaigns (the last of which he was let go). But why do you think it was?

People were praising the entire health related operation for how well 2014 went. Injuries are often completely randomly distributed.

Failure in logic here. If you praise the department when health is going well in one season, you should then issue blame to that same department when it doesn’t happen in other seasons.

The difference between this and the previous "staff" is essentially Harold Nash. Because Moses Cabrera who runs the shop now and many of the lower grunts in that dept. were already part of that staff that you LOL at but seem to have less of an issue with now.

Actually, given how many of the “nagging” types of injuries our skill players sustained in 2017, it would be right to question their conditioning, which falls on the same staff. Not Gronk, though. He remained relatively healthy aside from the hits that you mentioned previously and, strangely, it was a year in which he worked with Guerrero.

 

[Tuck]

The thing I don’t get is why Gronkowski said he would play in 2018 a day after he was supposedly shopped. If we are to assume his statement was in response to him learning about a trade possibility, it would seem that he wanted a trade to happen because if he didn’t want to be traded he would stick to the story line that he’s thinking of retiring and creating uncertainty to scare off potential suitors.

There is also the possibility that Belichick gave Gronk’s agent an ultimatum along the lines of “cut the crap with the public negotiations or I’ll trade him”, but if that were the case, you’d think Gronkowski would respond with something like “I’m going to play for the Patriots in 2018” and put the whole thing to rest.

I guess I’m not sure what Flirio’s point is by trying to link the two stories. They seem like two separate things unless Gronkowski really did want to be traded.

 

[bigballas]

He has value to other teams in that they would pay him top dollar. But if it’s between Gronk and someone whose top 5 and under 26/27 with a relatively clean history from an injury standpoint, go with the surer thing.

Here’s the biggest issue
2011: Gronk injured in playoffs and is s glorified decoy in the Super Bowl
2012: Gronk injured right before AFCCG and we lose
2013: Gronk injured most of the year and it’s the last really “bad” year the Pats had
2014: Gronk healthy all year and we win Super Bowl
2015: Gronk misses a small amount of time but in truth the game he got injured in was basically the reason we played at Mile High so it has a negative impact on the season
2016: Gronk doesn’t finish the season, thankfully we had the foresight to snag Bennett to mitigate it and won the Super Bowl
2017: Gronk healthy most of the year but does his stupid wrestling move to get suspended for a game

That’s a lot of risk to give up a lot in anytype of trade

just some counterpoints to these:
2011: Gronk injured in playoffs and is s glorified decoy in the Super Bowl
- we had lead and position to win. a dropped pass, a brady shoulder injury and a miracle catch once again let it slip away.
2012: Gronk injured right before AFCCG and we lose
- we were ****ies and got out muscled. too ****y too confident possibly. gronk doesnt really change that IMO
2013: Gronk injured most of the year and it’s the last really “bad” year the Pats had
- we got to the AFCCG despite having dropson, kenbrell and austin collie. brady was off that game
2014: Gronk healthy all year and we win Super Bowl
- what if Carroll called a run...miracle catches, etc. we ruled, Brady 4eva
2015: Gronk misses a small amount of time but in truth the game he got injured in was basically the reason we played at Mile High so it has a negative impact on the season
- harper dropped the punt. why put an inexperienced rookie back there to field a punt in the snow when Chung or someone more than adequate and experience. we were up 21-3 or some crap
2016: Gronk doesn’t finish the season, thankfully we had the foresight to snag Bennett to mitigate it and won the Super Bowl
- didnt need gronk
2017: Gronk healthy most of the year but does his stupid wrestling move to get suspended for a game
- see butler thread?

what im saying is it came down to one or two plays each season Gronk or not...I think he open's it up but no season was won or lost because of Gronk alone

 

[lancerman]

just some counterpoints to these:
2011: Gronk injured in playoffs and is s glorified decoy in the Super Bowl
- we had lead and position to win. a dropped pass, a brady shoulder injury and a miracle catch once again let it slip away.
2012: Gronk injured right before AFCCG and we lose
- we were ****ies and got out muscled. too ****y too confident possibly. gronk doesnt really change that IMO
2013: Gronk injured most of the year and it’s the last really “bad” year the Pats had
- we got to the AFCCG despite having dropson, kenbrell and austin collie. brady was off that game
2014: Gronk healthy all year and we win Super Bowl
- what if Carroll called a run...miracle catches, etc. we ruled, Brady 4eva
2015: Gronk misses a small amount of time but in truth the game he got injured in was basically the reason we played at Mile High so it has a negative impact on the season
- harper dropped the punt. why put an inexperienced rookie back there to field a punt in the snow when Chung or someone more than adequate and experience. we were up 21-3 or some crap
2016: Gronk doesn’t finish the season, thankfully we had the foresight to snag Bennett to mitigate it and won the Super Bowl
- didnt need gronk
2017: Gronk healthy most of the year but does his stupid wrestling move to get suspended for a game
- see butler thread?

what im saying is it came down to one or two plays each season Gronk or not...I think he open's it up but no season was won or lost because of Gronk alone

Footballs a sport with a million variables, but there’s no doubt Gronk not being healthy for those seasons and crucial games had an impact. And if you are in the position to trade for Gronk, you would consider his availability

 

[SammyBlueCat]

does that constitute smoke or fire? asking for a friend.

makes sense to me as I think Gronk only has a couple of years left before he goes to Hollywood or WWE to get paid. Pats being one step ahead just trying to get some return before he reitres

He's not going to get paid at either spot. If anything he's going to take a huge paycut in the WWE, and short of an honest to god miracle, he'll be lucky to clear 30k per movie, based on his lack of talent and range.

Chasa is correct. He will not make more as an actor in a movie or as an actor in the WWE than he makes as an NFL TE.

 

[RobertWeathers]

just some counterpoints to these:
2011: Gronk injured in playoffs and is s glorified decoy in the Super Bowl
- we had lead and position to win. a dropped pass, a brady shoulder injury and a miracle catch once again let it slip away.
2012: Gronk injured right before AFCCG and we lose
- we were ****ies and got out muscled. too ****y too confident possibly. gronk doesnt really change that IMO
2013: Gronk injured most of the year and it’s the last really “bad” year the Pats had
- we got to the AFCCG despite having dropson, kenbrell and austin collie. brady was off that game
2014: Gronk healthy all year and we win Super Bowl
- what if Carroll called a run...miracle catches, etc. we ruled, Brady 4eva
2015: Gronk misses a small amount of time but in truth the game he got injured in was basically the reason we played at Mile High so it has a negative impact on the season
- harper dropped the punt. why put an inexperienced rookie back there to field a punt in the snow when Chung or someone more than adequate and experience. we were up 21-3 or some crap
2016: Gronk doesn’t finish the season, thankfully we had the foresight to snag Bennett to mitigate it and won the Super Bowl
- didnt need gronk
2017: Gronk healthy most of the year but does his stupid wrestling move to get suspended for a game
- see butler thread?

what im saying is it came down to one or two plays each season Gronk or not...I think he open's it up but no season was won or lost because of Gronk alone

Gronk only missed the train wreck Philly game in 2015 and if you want to blame someone for playing in DEN, BBs cataclysmic game plan vs MIA on week 17 must be considered.

 

[luuked]

Failure in logic here. If you praise the department when health is going well in one season, you should then issue blame to that same department when it doesn’t happen in other seasons.

Which is exactly my point. Except you were doing it in reverse by only mentioning the bad years.

I went to FO and checked for their "Adjusted Games Lost" analysis from 2011 to 2017. For anyone that doesn't know the stat here are their principles:

(1) Injuries to starters, injury replacements and important situational reserves (No. 3 wide receiver, nickel corner, etc.) matter more than injuries to benchwarmers; and (2) Injured players who do take the field are usually playing with reduced ability, which is why AGL is based not strictly on whether the player was active for the game or not, but instead is based on the player's game status that week (IR/PUP, out, doubtful, questionable, or probable).

For the Pats the results were:

2011: 97.5 // #30
2012: 74.7 // #19
2013: 97.6 // #29
2014: 62.0 // #12
2015: 93.3 // #29
----
2016: 57.5 // #8
2017: 61.3 // #14


One can definitely make the argument that the data under Nash looked a lot more volatile snapping between "ok" years and "bad" years but so far it is only a sample of 2 vs. a sample of 5. Also lets keep in mind that those numbers are impacted a lot by severe injuries and not those lingering ones that you are actually talking about. It would be fascinating to see what the numbers look like if you remove all "severe" impact injuries and only look at the classic conditioning issues.

As for everything else, why do YOU think Nash was fired? Because I can only think of one real reason after the 2013 and 2015 campaigns (the last of which he was let go). But why do you think it was?

My assumption was because he did not prepare the team well enough in terms of conditioning throughout the season culminating in an abysmal performance in the AFCCG where many players seemed to be physically done midway through the third quarter. Yes, I understand it is in high altitude but it was just plain awful to watch.

But looking at the injury numbers from FO maybe BB really was not satisfied with his entire body of work. Interestingly when you look at the FO data for Detroit for 2016 and 2017 this is what you see:

2015: 76.7 // #23
----
2016: 71.1 // #14
2017: 71.7 // #17

So over there his methods more or less performed the same as it was before him and a bit worse than what Cabrera was able to accomplish here. But maybe that difference of about 10 games lost per season is exactly the kind of small nagging things that you were pointing towards. Either way the job Cabrera & co are doing right now is among the better ones in the league.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Gronk only missed the train wreck Philly game in 2015 and if you want to blame someone for playing in DEN, BBs cataclysmic game plan vs MIA on week 17 must be considered.

Yes. They started that during the Washington game after Dion Lewis got injured. The Pats just starting running the ball just to run the clock out and get out of there. But it was extremely frustrating when they continued this during the entire first half against the Jets and Dolphins. Looked like they were trying to lose. Had they beat the Jets, they could've rested everybody for the Dolphins game. Another bizarre decision by BB.

 

[Vindicate]

Never been a big fan of Gronk himself, dude is kind of a dumb meat head. That's why I loved the Bennett signing. He can do whatever he wants, I don't want him to be penalized or anything. But this off season was annoying to endure, as his rampant dumbass mentality was in full effect.

That being said, it would absolutely suck to see him on another team. He is, unequivocally, one of the most effective players an offense can have. It's outrageous how much teams have to plan for a TE like him. Any time one of those Player Tribune articles comes out from a CB in the toughest players to cover, I'm pretty sure Gronk is literally always there. I would hate to plan against that *******.

I mean was it in Do Your Job or some other documentary... Or maybe a post-game interview... Where BB himself was talking about prioritizing Gronk's health? Something to the effect "Well, you see what happens when he's on the field, how much he changes things" basically putting stock in the idea that some big stage losses were because he was absent? Obviously BB doesn't think that's the only reason, but for a coach who rarely leans on a single reason or player for the overall team (mf'er benched Butler, folks)... I just distinctly remember that line.

Sorry if I butchered that line, it has been a real long time since I remember hearing it.

 

[captain stone]

...Gronk at that time was a really bad roadside attraction...

...who is also our 2nd-best player...

...who isn't going anywhere...

...because Little Billy has proven himself incapable of finding his long-term replacement.

 

[GaryfromTO]

league source...I call B.S.

 

[IllegalContact]

everyone should be available........everyone should have a cost associated with them.

I'd ship Brady to the Browns for 3 #1's