Fewest takeaways by a Patriots defense since Belichick became coach

[sb1]

I wondered about that.

I looked it up... and it’s true. 18 regular season takeaways by the defense this year, that’s the fewest by any Patriot defense since before 2000.

Wow. If the AFC was half decent no way we are playing yesterday.

That has to change.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

I wondered about that.

I looked it up... and it’s true. 18 takeaways by the defense this year, that’s the fewest by any Patriot defense since before 2000.

Wow. If the AFC was half decent no way we are playing yesterday.

That has to change.

i think hightower being absent hurt, and a whole
heck of a lot of
man coverage since october 1, limited a lot of those opportunities. if you are
defending the pass pretty well, that can be as effective of getting an int
down the field. it does seem like it has been a while since we saw a pick 6 or something, sure.

i always look every year to see where pats finish in points allowed, and the
magic number is 300. this d may not have been great with takeaways, but their
red zone d was one of the best in the league and led the nfl in takeaways. i would say that is pretty good.

the pats allowed the least amount of points in the league since oct 1.

what has to change is not lettting
gilmore dictate the idea it has to be man coverage. it is a problem that cannot continue.
and they need to keep getting some
pass rushers to help flowers out a bit and rookies wise and butler appeared to hit the rookie wall, but they played well as rookies.

the 2010 led the nfl in turnovers playing a lot of zone, with mccourty playing
cb at an all pro level and in 2011, ne’s young d led the conference in turnovers created. so, i thinking mixing in more zone would help this.

overall, i think there were issues with butler all year and gilmore was new, the latter coming on as the year went.

fumbles seemed
to be downa bit, yes.

 

[sb1]

I also think the whole “bend but don’t break” thing used as a compliment when it comes to our defense...has run its course.

You don’t hear the 2015 Broncos, 2014 Seahawks, 2003-04 Pats or any other elite defense in this league described like that and there’s a good reason why.

Forget that noise. It’s just a polite way of saying they basically stink.

 

[sb1]

i think hightower being absent hurt, and a whole
heck of a lot of
man coverage since october 1, limited a lot of those opportunities. if you are
defending the pass pretty well, that can be as effective of getting an int
down the field. it does seem like it has been a while since we saw a pick 6 or something, sure.

i always look every year to see where pats finish in points allowed, and the
magic number is 300. this d may not have been great with takeaways, but their
red zone d was one of the best in the league and led the nfl in takeaways. i would say that is pretty good.

the pats allowed the least amount of points in the league since oct 1.

what has to change is not lettting
gilmore dictate the idea it has to be man coverage. it is a problem that cannot continue.
and they need to keep getting some
pass rushers to help flowers out a bit and rookies wise and butler appeared to hit the rookie wall, but they played well as rookies.

the 2010 led the nfl in turnovers playing a lot of zone, with mccourty playing
cb at an all pro level and in 2011, ne’s young d led the conference in turnovers created. so, i thinking mixing in more zone would help this.

overall, i think there were issues with butler all year and gilmore was new, the latter coming on as the year went.

fumbles seemed
to be downa bit, yes.

All good points. But turnovers matter too. They not only stop and demoralize the other team, but the GOAT gets back on the field sooner to give him opportunities to score more.

Id love to see attacking defense that forces a lot of fumbles too. I think that can be taught. It’s an opportunity and a chance for a new start with MP out the door.

 

[TBR]

It was driving me crazy all year long. From week 13 and through the playoffs including the Super Bowl, they had a measly 3 turnovers. Harmon had a fairly lucky one in the Super Bowl, which was deflected. Practically like a punt from Foles anyway. Pats offense got it at the 10 yard line.

The other two were Eric Lee's INT vs Buffalo - one of the easiest INTs of all time. Video below. The other was Harmon's INT (assist to Rowe) to seal the game vs Pittsburgh.

 

[TBR]

It's also worth noting that Malcolm Butler was one of the best on the Pats defense at forcing turnovers. He led the team in total turnovers this year (5). He's obviously known for jumping the route vs Seattle, but he's particularly great at forcing fumbles. He's fantastic at punching the ball out. Also, while not exactly a forced fumble (but 'pass defensed' instead) he has often punched the ball out of the receiver's hands before he establishes full control.

He's forced 4 fumbles in the last 2 seasons, including 3 this year. Most notably, he had one against the Jets on Sefarian-Jenkins.

Just 1 of those punches from Butler could've made all the difference in last night's game.

 

[PatsGirl2011]

The linebackers and front 4 need improvement.

 

[Patriot Missile]

The linebackers and front 4 need improvement.

Hightower and Rivers return. There's improvement right there without lifting a pen. I think McClellin has another year left on deal. Depth. Draft/sign fa defensive end and lb and could be a quick turnaround.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Good pass rush = strip sacks = INTs

 

[maust]

Not only were the int's down but the more glaring drop off was in FF's, it was in single digits. We all know the front 7 was the weakest link on this team but forcing only 9 fumbles (27th) and recovering just 5 (28th) of them is just horrific.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

I also think the whole “bend but don’t break” thing used as a compliment when it comes to our defense...has run its course.

You don’t hear the 2015 Broncos, 2014 Seahawks, 2003-04 Pats or any other elite defense in this league described like that and there’s a good reason why.

Forget that noise. It’s just a polite way of saying they basically stink.

Well, those defenses have incredibly short lifespans and get gassed at end of games and seasons. It id an outdated way of thinking. It is run stopping, red zone d and turnovers, so they do need to force more in between the 20’s, sure.

Bb has it right...the yards between the 20s are not vital. Think about it: 14 points were scored by philly outside the red zone. One of them because harmon should have been over the top once he saw man to man with rowe/jeffery and flowers on clement with good coverage, forced an incompletion, but it was ruled a td. So, in each very good man coverage was there.

They got a turnover in the red zone, we just need more of them at times before the red zone.

One of those is on coaching and harmon’s awareness there, and the other was a garbage goodell special that is an abomination to see happen in the postseason like that.

I cannot recall a td in a super bowl that was reviewed where it was clear to be overturned, and it was not done.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

The linebackers and front 4 need improvement.

Hightower. Van noy is very good and would be even better with hightower back. And, i like flowers. He is fast, yet still can play a bit at the line, too.

We missed shea mcclellin as predicted. His speed and great positional awareness in zone was missed.

Bb had him moved all around last year in a chess piece with his athletisim and speed, but his career seems like it is over.

 

[PatriotSpy]

I also think the whole “bend but don’t break” thing used as a compliment when it comes to our defense...has run its course.

You don’t hear the 2015 Broncos, 2014 Seahawks, 2003-04 Pats or any other elite defense in this league described like that and there’s a good reason why.

Forget that noise. It’s just a polite way of saying they basically stink.

Agreed. The game is different now. Teams are better at getting the ball into the endzone. Brady (and butler on the last play against the seahawks) won us the last two superbowls.

This D is so meh. no playmakers, no difference makers. more athleticism please!

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Well, those defenses have incredibly short lifespans and get gassed at end of games and seasons. It id an outdated way of thinking. It is run stopping, red zone d and turnovers, so they do need to force more in between the 20’s, sure.

Seattle and denver are now fading and rebuilding..

Bb has it right...the yards between the 20s are not vital. Think about it: 14 points were scored by philly outside the red zone. One of them because harmon should have been over the top once he saw man to man with rowe/jeffery and flowers on clement with good coverage, forced an incompletion, but it was ruled a td. So, in each very good man coverage was there.

They got a turnover in the red zone, we just need more of them at times before the red zone.

One of those is on coaching and harmon’s awareness there, and the other was a garbage goodell special that is an abomination to see happen in the postseason like that.

I cannot recall a td in a super bowl that was reviewed where it was clear to be overturned, and it was not done.

 

[skinnydog]

i think hightower being absent hurt, and a whole
heck of a lot of
man coverage since october 1, limited a lot of those opportunities. if you are
defending the pass pretty well, that can be as effective of getting an int
down the field. it does seem like it has been a while since we saw a pick 6 or something, sure.

i always look every year to see where pats finish in points allowed, and the
magic number is 300. this d may not have been great with takeaways, but their
red zone d was one of the best in the league and led the nfl in takeaways. i would say that is pretty good.

the pats allowed the least amount of points in the league since oct 1.

what has to change is not lettting
gilmore dictate the idea it has to be man coverage. it is a problem that cannot continue.
and they need to keep getting some
pass rushers to help flowers out a bit and rookies wise and butler appeared to hit the rookie wall, but they played well as rookies.

the 2010 led the nfl in turnovers playing a lot of zone, with mccourty playing
cb at an all pro level and in 2011, ne’s young d led the conference in turnovers created. so, i thinking mixing in more zone would help this.

overall, i think there were issues with butler all year and gilmore was new, the latter coming on as the year went.

fumbles seemed
to be downa bit, yes.

Hard to creat turnovers if you don;t s

i think hightower being absent hurt, and a whole
heck of a lot of
man coverage since october 1, limited a lot of those opportunities. if you are
defending the pass pretty well, that can be as effective of getting an int
down the field. it does seem like it has been a while since we saw a pick 6 or something, sure.

i always look every year to see where pats finish in points allowed, and the
magic number is 300. this d may not have been great with takeaways, but their
red zone d was one of the best in the league and led the nfl in takeaways. i would say that is pretty good.

the pats allowed the least amount of points in the league since oct 1.

what has to change is not lettting
gilmore dictate the idea it has to be man coverage. it is a problem that cannot continue.
and they need to keep getting some
pass rushers to help flowers out a bit and rookies wise and butler appeared to hit the rookie wall, but they played well as rookies.

the 2010 led the nfl in turnovers playing a lot of zone, with mccourty playing
cb at an all pro level and in 2011, ne’s young d led the conference in turnovers created. so, i thinking mixing in more zone would help this.

overall, i think there were issues with butler all year and gilmore was new, the latter coming on as the year went.

fumbles seemed
to be downa bit, yes.

Hard to create turnovers it you don't have a team culture of trying to create turnovers. No one would ever describe this years defense as a ball hawking defense. No one (except maybe Butler) even seemed to try to undercut or jump a route to create an interception. This was not a team tackling ball stripping defense either. I have no problem with a defense where Gilmore is primarily in man coverage. The 2014 defense featured Revis as a man to man coverage corner against the other teams #2 and then bracketing the #1. That was probably the best defense the Pats have had since the 03 and 04 teams. Having an elite or near elite corner who is great in man to man coverage is hardly a problem.

 

[mosi]

Hightower and Rivers return. There's improvement right there without lifting a pen. I think McClellin has another year left on deal. Depth. Draft/sign fa defensive end and lb and could be a quick turnaround.

Yeah, but as much as we love Hightower, he has had some big injuries these last few years and we have no idea about Rivers. He could be a bust for all we know.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Yeah, but as much as we love Hightower, he has had some big injuries these last few years and we have no idea about Rivers. He could be a bust for all we know.

True, still, nobody on this team blitzes the A gap like HT. Rivers was touted as one of the biggest sleepers with enormous potential. When healthy they could be what this team needs.

 

[pheenix11]

Aren't interceptions down the past few years anyways because of all the rule changes?

 

[captain stone]

We missed shea mcclellin as predicted. His speed and great positional awareness in zone was missed.

Bb had him moved all around last year in a chess piece with his athletisim and speed, but his career seems like it is over.

We didn't miss McClellin at all. Marquis Flowers (and Eric Lee to a smaller extent) more than made up for whatever production we would've received from him.

McClellin sucked. His only redeeming quality was his ability to jump over Snappers & Guards to block kicks, and now that's been taken away from him. So basically he's useless now, and there is no way he would've ever been brought back here at his current salary, concussion or not.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I also think the whole “bend but don’t break” thing used as a compliment when it comes to our defense...has run its course.

You don’t hear the 2015 Broncos, 2014 Seahawks, 2003-04 Pats or any other elite defense in this league described like that and there’s a good reason why.

Forget that noise. It’s just a polite way of saying they basically stink.

And yet that philosophy was good enough to win in 2014 and 2016. Yes, the defense had a terrible game, but if the protection held up for Brady, he probably would have orchestrated yet another game winning drive.