Ducasse benched

[yukon cornelius]

Vlad was benched in favor of Brian Winters, a 3rd round rookie.....PFF grades Vlad out 66th out of 70 eligible guards this season


I know I am not the only one who thought he had a great night against the Pats; one more than a few 1v1 battles with Vince


Did he just have a career night, or was Vince dinged before the rupture?

 

[nabwong]

Probably a little of both. It's not uncommon.

 

[yukon cornelius]

Probably a little of both. It's not uncommon.

i thought Vince was playing heavy this year, too.....



Ducasse has been so horribly bad before and after, I am leaning more towards a less than 100% Vince - I really wonder if there was an Achilles issue before it blew....

 

[nabwong]

i thought Vince was playing heavy this year, too.....



Ducasse has been so horribly bad before and after, I am leaning more towards a less than 100% Vince - I really wonder if there was an Achilles issue before it blew....

Part of the reason vince is a captain, along with mayo, brady and mankins is that it doesn't matter what they have, they will still do the job without complaining to the media or anyone else. They understand what a privilege it is to be not only in the NFL but on a competitive team year in year out.

Brady - acl/mcl - not a single peep from him to take the spotlight out from cassel ( compare that to manning and his neck injury )

Mayo - shoulder, knee - got killed by fans in 2nd year

mankins - acl/mcl on DAY ONE of season - got killed by fans during the superbowl, and much of the season. Yet nothing from him.

also, matt light.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Vince's struggles have been pointed out and there was speculation over the first 3 weeks that he was dealing with a physical issue. That is actually somewhat encouraging if he was because replacing a hobbled Vince to maintain the performance of the first 4 weeks isn't quite like replacing the Vince we know.

Not saying it will be easy but before this season it was almost like having to replace Brady. Maybe the emergence of Jones/Nink and Kelly up front has softened the blow.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

Vlad was benched in favor of Brian Winters, a 3rd round rookie.....PFF grades Vlad out 66th out of 70 eligible guards this season


I know I am not the only one who thought he had a great night against the Pats; one more than a few 1v1 battles with Vince


Did he just have a career night, or was Vince dinged before the rupture?

I said it in another thread......Vince was dominated by Ducasse. Even before his injury, Vince was very out of shape this year and declining. Vince, at 33 next November and coming off a major injury, will more than likely not be the dominant Vince of yesteryear. Time to move on.


"Wilfork was struggling through the worst start to a season of his career before tearing his Achilles"


What will the Patriots do after Vince Wilfork injury? - NFL.com



"Now even if Wilfork recovers, there is serious doubt that he would ever be the same caliber of player he was before the tear. Wilfork makes plays because he possesses a level of quickness and explosiveness that is in direct conflict with his body type. If Vince’s attributes are compromised even slightly, it’s unlikely he will ever be the kind of game-changing, middle clogging playmaker the Patriots front seven has been built around for the last decade.

And nobody is more aware of these realities than Bill Belichick. Bill is also acutely aware of the fact that Wilfork’s cap number next year, the last on his current deal, will be a staggering 11.5 million dollars.

But even with his long resume of success, a physically heavy defensive tackle with an Achilles injury and the second largest cap hit on the team in 2014, will literally and figuratively have zero leverage to restructure his deal. If Vince doesn’t restructure at a team friendly “value”, his return is very unlikely."


Wilfork's Patriots career may be over | Comcast SportsNet - CSNNE.com

 

[ctpatsfan77]

If Vince’s attributes are compromised even slightly, it’s unlikely he will ever be the kind of game-changing, middle clogging playmaker the Patriots front seven has been built around for the last decade.

I know these aren't your words, but you apparently agree with them. This strikes me as essentially a "slippery slope" argument.

 

[Danger Zone]

Re: Re: Ducasse benched

I said it in another thread......Vince was dominated by Ducasse. Even before his injury, Vince was very out of shape this year and declining. Vince, at 33 next November and coming off a major injury, will more than likely not be the dominant Vince of yesteryear. Time to move on.


"Wilfork was struggling through the worst start to a season of his career before tearing his Achilles"


What will the Patriots do after Vince Wilfork injury? - NFL.com



"Now even if Wilfork recovers, there is serious doubt that he would ever be the same caliber of player he was before the tear. Wilfork makes plays because he possesses a level of quickness and explosiveness that is in direct conflict with his body type. If Vince’s attributes are compromised even slightly, it’s unlikely he will ever be the kind of game-changing, middle clogging playmaker the Patriots front seven has been built around for the last decade.

And nobody is more aware of these realities than Bill Belichick. Bill is also acutely aware of the fact that Wilfork’s cap number next year, the last on his current deal, will be a staggering 11.5 million dollars.

But even with his long resume of success, a physically heavy defensive tackle with an Achilles injury and the second largest cap hit on the team in 2014, will literally and figuratively have zero leverage to restructure his deal. If Vince doesn’t restructure at a team friendly “value”, his return is very unlikely."


Wilfork's Patriots career may be over | Comcast SportsNet - CSNNE.com

I expect this kind of business first, hard-nosed, whats-best-for-the-team analysis from our head coach.

While its hard to argue against your points, it still kind of pisses me off to hear such coldly calculating "time to move on" statements this soon from a fellow fan.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

I expect this kind of business first, hard-nosed, whats-best-for-the-team analysis from our head coach.

While its hard to argue against your points, it still kind of pisses me off to hear such coldly calculating "time to move on" statements this soon from a fellow fan.

I have no problem with the philosophy, but only if it's highly analytical, as opposed to wildly speculative. At this point, it can only be the latter, and even BB, in his worst cold-blooded GM mode, wouldn't waste his time on that now. The decision whether to pay Wilfork, cut him, or renegotiate his salary does not need to come until around September 1, 2014. Until then, he rehabs, drops weight, and tries to return to his former level or something near it. My guess is that he can't afford to carry that much weight and be a NT-type DT any more. He may lose a step, but dropping 25 pounds, maybe not that much. What he won't lose are his technique, his intelligence, or his strength. In short, he can still be effective, even if he is no longer a top 5 DT.

Don't discount the possibility that they renegotiate his contract. He was probably due to do so already. If he can make enough of a recovery by training camp (6-9 months is typical, and even for a big guy who is probably more the latter case, he'd be ready sometime in pre-season), to convince BB that he will be effective in 2014, a deal that works for the team and Vince could probably be found. I doubt he'll get a guarantee as big as his current 2014 salary, but he'll have a chance to make more than that over 2-3 years.

He's going to get paid this year. No sense firing him yet.

 

[kennyb]

His best bet is to lose about 75 pounds and try to play with his quickness instead of his large stomach. That would prolong his career too. 6'1" and 400 pounds is too heavy.

It *might* be in the back of his mind that it's time to retire. Family history of diabetes and being 400 pounds don't go well together. Especially when you probably have 20 million or so in the bank.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Vince's struggles have been pointed out and there was speculation over the first 3 weeks that he was dealing with a physical issue. That is actually somewhat encouraging if he was because replacing a hobbled Vince to maintain the performance of the first 4 weeks isn't quite like replacing the Vince we know.

Not saying it will be easy but before this season it was almost like having to replace Brady. Maybe the emergence of Jones/Nink and Kelly up front has softened the blow.

I completely agree, and I think this fact is getting lost in the post-injury discussion. A healthy Wilfork is irreplaceable. The Wilfork that we had through the first through weeks is absolutely replaceable.

As for looking past this year, there's just a ton of unknowns there. I think it's fair to speculate that he'll have to restructure if he wants to stick around, and FWIW I think he will, in part because he seems to love it here and in part because he's not going to get more money anywhere else. I certainly hope that's what happens, because I want to see him back in a Patriots uniform.

 

[jmt57]

Part of the reason vince is a captain, along with mayo, brady and mankins is that it doesn't matter what they have, they will still do the job without complaining to the media or anyone else. They understand what a privilege it is to be not only in the NFL but on a competitive team year in year out.

Brady - acl/mcl - not a single peep from him to take the spotlight out from cassel ( compare that to manning and his neck injury )

Mayo - shoulder, knee - got killed by fans in 2nd year

mankins - acl/mcl on DAY ONE of season - got killed by fans during the superbowl, and much of the season. Yet nothing from him.

also, matt light.

Interesting contrast in comparison to how Ben Roethlisberger has handled his injuries over the years.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

I expect this kind of business first, hard-nosed, whats-best-for-the-team analysis from our head coach.

While its hard to argue against your points, it still kind of pisses me off to hear such coldly calculating "time to move on" statements this soon from a fellow fan.

Out of the 53 players on the roster right now, I counted 20 players who didnt play for us last year. That makes almost 38% of the team brand new.

"Time to move on" is the nature of this game. Players come and go. Coaches come and go. I want the best for my team because I'm a fan of the New England Patriots and not any particular player.

There is never any one player who is more important than the team. Go Patriots!