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Dowling Injury Woes Continue, Fletcher Remains Out

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Awesome, right? Too many people here are way too fast to defend everything this team does. If we were so perfect we'd have won the Super Bowl the last 6 years straight.

No one is saying anything about this team being perfect. Far from it. Why are you having such a hard time understanding that?
 
That's true. You and Andy have responded with legit arguments. But the overall response has been typical.

You have to admit, Dowlings injury coming out of college was a serious question which deemed him a greater risk, specially if you spend a high pick on him.

His book is not finished yet, but it's not off to a good start.

Dowling's injuries were some concern. However, they weren't as big of a concern when compared to Marcus Cannon.

In all honesty, Dowling's injuries seemed to be over-blown. The high ankle sprain in his senior year in particular. High ankle sprains come in a variety of shapes and sizes and can be misdiagnosed (see Ty Law). And, I'll be honest, it seemed like the VA training staff tried to rush him back before they realized their mistake.

To say anything more than the book is incomplete on Ras-I, imho, would be fallacy.
 
I can't wait to see what happens when this team stops winning the division title every year. Then we'll REALLY get complaints about the draft.

Look, Belichick hasn't been great at the draft, but he's obviously done well enough to win all those games. He's blown a lot of draft picks, true, but there aren't a lot of Derrick Harveys and Tye Hills in the Pats' drafts. They get good solid guys who can play every year. They pretty consistently find a productive player or two in the late rounds (from Brady to Cassel to Givens to Pryor to Deaderick to Koppen, etc), they get starters out of extra picks they get from trading into future years (i.e. Spikes, Mesko, etc), and they tend to hit with most all their first-rounders.

That's a pretty good formula for success -- finding a player or two late, getting one or two extra picks per year, and not missing in the first round. Add in the fact that the Pats have had the lowest drafting position of any team in the last ten years, and it's pretty amazing that people on this board whine as much as they do. You should try rooting for another team. Try being a Buffalo Bills fan. Or a Dolphins fan. Or a Rams or Niners fan. Take a look at the drafts for those teams. The grass isn't greener anywhere else. You find the Pats defense frustrating, try rooting for Baltimore's offense, and they're one of the best drafting teams out there.
 
I can't wait to see what happens when this team stops winning the division title every year. Then we'll REALLY get complaints about the draft.

We'll also get to see who the real fans are, not the ones who are going to then jump on the Andrew Luck bandwagon for 10+ years and claim that team as their own.
 
The problem is people are just massively exaggerating his injury history. He missed 8 or 9 games in college, all with unrelated injuries. Tons of college players miss more college games than that (Bradford, Suh, Cromartie, David Harris, and Gronk come to mind).


Calling him Glass-Ir doesn't mean he actually was too injury prone to draft

I don't know what you mean by massively exaggerating his injury history. He's been injured quite a bit:

Problems in regards to injury history. Played just five games in 2010 because of a left ankle fracture, hamstring pull and right knee injury. In ’08 he dealt with a hamstring and back injury. Started all 12 games in ’09. Pulled a hamstring at the combine but had a great pro day. Had a broken hand and a knee injury in high school.

Analysis of 2nd round pick, CB Ras-I Dowling - Extra Points - Boston.com

And now he's had injury problems starting in training camp. Combine that with his past injuries, at what point do you call a duck a duck?

Again, I'm not saying he's never going to be a good NFL player, but the injury prone label that he came out with in college has materialized in the NFL so far.
 
I'm confused as to how his "injury history" is somehow a glaring weakness. In his 4 year college career, he missed 9 games, 1 in 2008 which I can't find if it was due to injury or not, and 8 in 2010 all due to the same single injury.

So one major injury in college makes him injury prone? Is that what all the Glass-I's are saying?
 
Dowling's injuries were some concern. However, they weren't as big of a concern when compared to Marcus Cannon.

In all honesty, Dowling's injuries seemed to be over-blown. The high ankle sprain in his senior year in particular. High ankle sprains come in a variety of shapes and sizes and can be misdiagnosed (see Ty Law). And, I'll be honest, it seemed like the VA training staff tried to rush him back before they realized their mistake.

To say anything more than the book is incomplete on Ras-I, imho, would be fallacy.

I hate to do it, but I'd have to respectfully disagree, DB.

Cannon's diagnosis was the one that was somewhat overblown, as those in his situation have over a 90%+ full recovery rate. Those who know something about this never wrote him off for the season like most others. That said, I still agree with your point in general, due to the stigma and seriousness of the word "cancer" itself; so yes, many were certainly scared to take him. I also believe that many doctors would have told you that he had a very high chance of eventually returning to football at some point. The question for these potential teams then became--"when?" Waiting for the probability for him to recover and return was what generally turned everyone off, as most felt he would at least be a red-shirt this yr. There's till a chance that he does not play this yr, and gets IR'ed, but it would not likely be for the reasons everyone thought. He is 100% recovered, and there's no reason whatsoever to think that he will have some type of recurring issue. Belichick may still utilize his first yr to continue to get acquainted with the system, and continue to learn and train. Roster spots are obviously at a premium too, so there are several factors that may differentiate his being here vs. another team (as you know, of course), and whether or not to add him to the 53 man roster...but if he does not get added, most will wrongfully assume that it was because he wasn't healthy enough etc, due to the cancer.

Dowling, OTOH--has a very, very long history of multiple injuries, which date back to early high school. He obviously has potential, but rarely seems to avoid the injury bug. I would link all of these numerous injuries, but the poster above me already gives us a decent look into this situation.

I would definitely agree 100% that we should not assume that Dowling will never be healthy, as it's possible that the extensive pro level training and rehab may very well turn him on a better path. It's terribly early to label him much of anything, but at the same time you have to see where the doubters and injry concerns are coming from. (although we certainly should try to remain positive and continue to give him the benefit of the doubt IMO)

The bottom line is that the draft of 2011 was a huge luxury for this team, way more than people realize. That is one of the reasons why we could afford to roll the dice and take a chance on such guys as Dowling, Mallett, and even to a lesser extent, Marcus Cannon.
 
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I'm confused as to how his "injury history" is somehow a glaring weakness. In his 4 year college career, he missed 9 games, 1 in 2008 which I can't find if it was due to injury or not, and 8 in 2010 all due to the same single injury.

So one major injury in college makes him injury prone? Is that what all the Glass-I's are saying?

I agree with your thoughts on continuing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and like I said, the guy has just started his pro career, so it'd be stupid to try and label him in a negative fashion; but those who are questioning his multiple injuries since high school are also correct in their assessments.

They just choose to do it in a more negative fashion, I guess.

When you have a left ankle fracture, a right knee injury, a hamstring pull, a back injury, a broken hand, another hamstring pull (more severe), then start your NFL career out with a hamstring pull/tweak at the combine, followed by a nagging hip injury that causes you to play in a game or two the entire first half of the season---I would say you are going to be labeled by some as "injury prone," LOL!!

I can see both sides, but there's certainly reason to believe that he will contribute for us on enough of a level to warrant the high-pick selection.
 
When you have a left ankle fracture, a right knee injury, a hamstring pull, a back injury, a broken hand, another hamstring pull (more severe), then start your NFL career out with a hamstring pull/tweak at the combine, followed by a nagging hip injury that causes you to play in a game or two the entire first half of the season---I would say you are going to be labeled by some as "injury prone," LOL!!

I can see both sides, but there's certainly reason to believe that he will contribute for us on enough of a level to warrant the high-pick selection.

So he had all those injuries the Knee and Broken hand were in high school, the Left ankle was in his last year at VA, ignoring the ones in the NFL, the rest caused him to miss 1 game. That's 1 game for "a hamstring pull, a back injury, another hamstring pull.

Seems to me we should be hailing him for being able to play through injuries, not complaining about him being made of glass.

Here's the link to his VA Biography where it shows he only missed the 9 games total.

Ras-I Dowling Biography - University of Virginia Cavaliers Official Athletic Site - VirginiaSports.com
 
The bottom line is that the draft of 2011 was a huge luxury for this team, way more than people realize. That is one of the reasons why we could afford to roll the dice and take a chance on such guys as Dowling, Mallett, and even to a lesser extent, Marcus Cannon.

How is a draft ever a luxury? Our defense sucked last year.we went one and done on our home field. And overall our subpar drafts a few years ago have led to situation where we lack talent on defense.

I like Dowling...he has alot to offer but if he can't stay healthy then that's gonna be another one of those picks that's gonna hurt.
 
How is a draft ever a luxury? Our defense sucked last year.we went one and done on our home field. And overall our subpar drafts a few years ago have led to situation where we lack talent on defense.

I like Dowling...he has alot to offer but if he can't stay healthy then that's gonna be another one of those picks that's gonna hurt.

This yr's draft was a luxury due to the fact that we had many of our players already on the roster, no turnover in HC/asst coaches, a once in a lifetime QB, and a young team already in many areas. Not many picks were going to contribute on this yr's team.

You bring up the poor defense, but obviously BB feels differently due to his scheme change to simplify things. He hasn't brought in many LB'ers, or DE/LB hybrids like everyone clamored for. He surely was not going to do it in a shortened yr.

The labor situation obviously added to this mix too.

I explained everything in my pre-draft prediction in regards to this being a luxury draft for us, which went QB and heavy offense (to everyone's dismay)--and was pretty much on the nose (although I did think we'd take one DE/LB hybrid) And I am not bringing that up to try and sound like a know it all, because I don't know sh!t. I am just bringing it up to answer your question, as even a broken watch is right 2x a day
 
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How is a draft ever a luxury? Our defense sucked last year.we went one and done on our home field. And overall our subpar drafts a few years ago have led to situation where we lack talent on defense.

I like Dowling...he has alot to offer but if he can't stay healthy then that's gonna be another one of those picks that's gonna hurt.

The fact that the team went one-and-done was likely not due to needing DE/LB hybrids at the risk of needing to coddle them for a yr or two, only to NOT work out in this system.

Or at least that's what BB likely felt, especially if you read between the lines when he comments on it, and when you go by his past draft record.

I have no problem with you questioning anything, and I do think that Dowling is injury prone; but BB obviously had a secondary overhaul in mind, and rolled the dice on what he thought was the best available option at the position.
 
So he had all those injuries the Knee and Broken hand were in high school, the Left ankle was in his last year at VA, ignoring the ones in the NFL, the rest caused him to miss 1 game. That's 1 game for "a hamstring pull, a back injury, another hamstring pull.

Seems to me we should be hailing him for being able to play through injuries, not complaining about him being made of glass.
Here's the link to his VA Biography where it shows he only missed the 9 games total.

Ras-I Dowling Biography - University of Virginia Cavaliers Official Athletic Site - VirginiaSports.com

That is certainly a positive way of looking at it, and I like the way you think. I am just saying that those who question his injury history are probably right in doing so.
 
This yr's draft was a luxury due to the fact that we had many of our players already on the roster, no turnover in HC/asst coaches, a once in a lifetime QB, and a young team already in many areas. Not many picks were going to contribute on this yr's team.

You bring up the poor defense, but obviously BB feels differently due to his scheme change to simplify things. He hasn't brought in many LB'ers, or DE/LB hybrids like everyone clamored for. He surely was not going to do it in a shortened yr.

The labor situation obviously added to this mix too.

I explained everything in my pre-draft prediction in regards to this being a luxury draft for us, which went QB and heavy offense (to everyone's dismay)--and was pretty much on the nose (although I did think we'd take one DE/LB hybrid)

Ummm...how many new faces we have on defense actually? 5 in the secondary(most of them castoffs and UDFA)? Carter,Haynesworth

With Bodden getting canned this makes the Dowling pick even more critical.
 
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overall our subpar drafts a few years ago have led to situation where we lack talent on defense.

No doubt about that.

It is a crapshoot though, so you fail and try to move on, and that's all that we can hope for from the front office/coaching staff.

Had they hit some more defensive players on the head, we'd likely have won at least one more SB by now, if not more.

No use crying over spilled milk, but I do certainly agree with you.
 
Ummm...how many new faces we have on defense actually? 5 in the secondary(most of them castoffs and UDFA)? Carter,Haynesworth

We're talking about DRAFTING dude.

How many new faces were added to the defense from the DRAFT?

The entire reason why Belichick did not go out and draft some more question mark possibilities is because he wanted to add some proven vets with experience (not draftees) and simplify the system...which proves my point even more.
 
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