Does McDaniels hold this team back?

[richpats]

I think the fact that McDaniels is a hotly debated topic over the last 2 offseasons proves that he has more to prove in the NFL than simply shattering scoring records.

 

[Rob0729]

Notice a trend in each game mentioned that he had one long catch, in each game besides the Colts game those plays came on a bubble screen. Notice the type of play it is in which it involves nothing but catching the ball and running . How can you be inconsistent when literally all you do is stand there and catch the ball nothing else. And no where did I say he came up big all I said is it's a play that worked all year and in the Super Bowl and gave examples with the great success that came with it when they called it(which was once a game)but they called a couple of times a game for Welker to lesser succes every time. So your going to tell me every time you call a play for a guy he gets good yardage your going to only call it once a game and this became very much the case as I said in the Super Bowl. And how can you make the assessment that it would only work once a game when they never tried again especially considering it worked every time they did it even in the Super Bowl.

Well, you have been arguing that Stallworth biggest worth to the Patriots was coming up with one big play a game. Now you are saying that something that has worked all year was the wrong move in the playoffs.

Sorry, but sometimes players only do well in certain systems in a limited role. That pretty much seemed to described Stallworth in the Pats' system. I really doubt McDaniels knew how to maximize Moss, Welker, and Gaffney and not Stallworth. I doubt McDaniels tried to hold Stallworth back. If Brady felt like he was getting open and in the right area, Brady would have gotten him the ball more even if McDaniels didn't call the play. Brady changes the play and the primary receiver as much as anyone other than maybe Peyton Manning. It didn't happen.

As I said with JoeSixPack, if this is the worst criticism you can come up with McDaniels that he didn't use a back up correctly; then he is a lot better OC than you give him credit for. You are arguing he misused a back up WR. Not Brady. Not Moss. A number 3/4 WR.

 

[Rob0729]

I think the fact that McDaniels is a hotly debated topic over the last 2 offseasons proves that he has more to prove in the NFL than simply shattering scoring records.

Or that every year except the 2004 season, the OC has been the lightning rod for people's ire. I wasn't on this board back then, but other boards Weis got slammed for giving up on the run, too many three and outs, and over-relying on trick plays like the FB draw. I remember a lot of people hoping that Weis ended up going to the Bills. People have very short memories.

Besides, Belichick's opinion is the only one that matters and he seems to be fully behind McDaniels.

 

[wpdougie2180]

Welker caught over 3 times more balls from behind the line and up to 10 yards than Stallworth. That can skew the averages. If both Stallworth and Welker get 30 yards on a pass at the line of scrimmage, it helps Stallworth's average far more because he has less catches. So the difference may not be all the different.

Besides, Welker is a primary WR and Stallworth was a back up. Welker plays primarily from the slot which means he is getting more passes over the middle with less opportunities to get YAC. Stallworth lines up near exclusively on the outside and most of his passes were to the outside which gives him more opportunity to to get YAC.

I think you are still stretching to try to prove that Stallworth deserved the ball more than Welker. You ask any unbiased observer and ask them if you were to have Brady throw a screen pass to and most will say Welker.

I agree about the numbers being skewered because of the difference in catches but why would you choose Welker over Stallworth when his primary role last year was solely YAC guy the exact thing a screen is designed to do. As I said there was a reason the Patriots went to Stallworth primarily on third and long because they knew he could get it with his ability to break tackles and his quickness. As I said numerous times this was even said NFLNetwork on Playbook when they broke down the Patriots every week. I am just saying why not use it more than once in the Super Bowl when you already seen it work and your having trouble moving the ball?

 

[wpdougie2180]

Well, you have been arguing that Stallworth biggest worth to the Patriots was coming up with one big play a game. Now you are saying that something that has worked all year was the wrong move in the playoffs.

No what I am saying is why if it worked all year would you calling it one time a game, it's not that complicated a route you catch the ball and run, as a matter of fact it's not even a route you just turnaround a catch the ball. It's not as if he got the opportunity more than once a game to prove it wouldn't work. That's the part that makes no sense just say a guy gets 18 yards on a play but another guy gets 9,8, and -2 on the very same play why would you go to that guy 2 more times for 5 and 3 yard gains and not give the other guy at least one of those plays? If you can rationalize that to me without saying it worked all year then I will leave it alone because what worked all year clearly wasn't working and didn't work.

 

[Deus Irae]

No what I am saying is why if it worked all year would you calling it one time a game, it's not that complicated a route you catch the ball and run, as a matter of fact it's not even a route you just turnaround a catch the ball. It's not as if he got the opportunity more than once a game to prove it wouldn't work. That's the part that makes no sense just say a guy gets 18 yards on a play but another guy gets 9,8, and -2 on the very same play why would you go to that guy 2 more times for 5 and 3 yard gains and not give the other guy at least one of those plays? If you can rationalize that to me without saying it worked all year then I will leave it alone because what worked all year clearly wasn't working and didn't work.

I'm curious..... what was the Giants' defensive strategy, to the best you could work out?

 

[wpdougie2180]

blitz occassionaly while sending their line on an all out pass rush when not blitzing and daring the recievers to beat them in coverage and when they did get open Brady didn't see them because he was waiting on Moss or he was getting sacked or he just missed them (just like he did Moss down the sidelines or Welker on an out route near the sidelines off the top of my head)

 

[Deus Irae]

blitz occassionaly while sending their line on an all out pass rush when not blitzing and daring the recievers to beat them in coverage and when they did get open Brady didn't see them because he was waiting on Moss or he was getting sacked or he just missed them (just like he did Moss down the sidelines or Welker on an out route near the sidelines off the top of my head)

Where were the cornerbacks at the snap of the ball?

 

[blackglass3]

I can't believe this thread is still going.

 

[Deus Irae]

I can't believe this thread is still going.

Hey, it's pretty much this or Adam Seward....

 

[wpdougie2180]

Where were the cornerbacks at the snap of the ball?

If your trying to say it wasn't possible because of press coverage how do you explain Welker catching 5 such passes?

 

[Deus Irae]

If your trying to say it wasn't possible because of press coverage how do you explain Welker catching 5 such passes?

1.) Welker is quicker in games than Stallworth (not faster, quicker).

2.) Welker is often matched up against a linebacker and, when not going against a linebacker, is usually looking at a #3 DB.

3.) Anything's possible. However, it's a question of risk assessment. Welker has better hands than Stallworth, runs better routes and was matched up against inferior defenders.