DeMarcus Ware or Andre Johnson?

[Badluck]

Andre Johnson was selected 3rd overall
Ware was selected 11th overall

talent like that doesn't go unnoticed often

but to the topic, ware easy

 

[patsfan-1982]

a top WR will get brady some more great stats to take with him to the hall of fame.



a top pass rusher will get the pats back to the super bowl. ill take the pass rusher.

 

[Brady_12]

Ware every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[eom]

I remember when people were all excited when adalius came to the pats.

if you plan on drafting ware just make sure you get wade phillips in a later round.
one guy does not make a defense.

 

[Feep50]

Ware every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

What he said!

 

[eom]

a top WR will get brady some more great stats to take with him to the hall of fame.



a top pass rusher will get the pats back to the super bowl. ill take the pass rusher.

by the way, andre johnson gets us to the superbowl in '06.

 

[eom]

ok, I want to get this settled before the draft so I can put my e-mail to belichick together.
this is the game that stopped us from advancing towards superbowl.

1st poss -- 3 and out
baltimore scores

2nd poss -- 3 and out

3rd poss -- picked off on 4th play
baltimore scores

4th poss -- picked off on 2nd play
baltimore scores

5th poss -- punt, but score on muff

6th poss -- 3 and out

7th poss -- punt

8th poss -- 3 and out

9th poss -- picked off on 4th play
baltimore scores

10th poss -- score

11th poss -- drive stalls and fg missed

final poss --
12-T.Brady pass incomplete short middle to 11-J.Edelman.
12-T.Brady pass incomplete short middle to 34-S.Morris.
12-T.Brady pass incomplete short left to 34-S.Morris.
12-T.Brady sacked at NE 33 for -6 yards (93-D.Edwards).


baltimore scored after a 3 and out (ending on a suggs sack/ff) and 3 picks.
meanwhile, new england had 10 failed drives, or 11 if you count the punt that ended up being a muffed catch.

baltimore did their damage to our defense while completing something like 4 passes.

who wants to tell me ware would have helped us win that game while andre johnson would not?

and this is all while we have randy moss on the field --- what happens when he gets hurt?

 

[Brady2Welker]

Ware every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Agreed, Ware is an incredible player. And seems to be fairly level headed compared to people like Peppers.

I believe Parcell's said that he had to get Ware because it was the closest thing hes ever seen to a Lawrence Taylor clone.


Ware is a more rare talent imo, You dont pass up on talent like that. Simple. Theres receivers in the league that are comparable to Johnson, but less OLBs that measure up to Ware. I think the better question is Jerry Rice level of receiver, versus Lawrence Taylor type of LB. That would be a real question.

*last edit*

I'd love to get someone Closer to Calvin Johnson Jr, god If that guy was paired with a competent team I'm sure hed put up some ridiculous numbers.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

eom, I see what you're saying about the Ravens game. However, there's a problem with that way of thinking.

With a talent like Andre Johnson or DeMarcus Ware on this team last season, don't you think there's a chance that we aren't 10-6 playing Baltimore in the wild card round of the playoffs?

I don't want the Pats to upgrade their roster based on how the team played in one playoff game last season. There was 6 other losses and some ugly wins. With Ware or Johnson, we might possibly have a bye and have some confidence heading into the playoffs. Again, the decision on who is better for the team should be based on the whole season, not one game.

 

[STUB STUB]

ok, I want to get this settled before the draft so I can put my e-mail to belichick together.
this is the game that stopped us from advancing towards superbowl.

I completely agree. Plus, compound all that anecdotal evidence with the following NFL fundamentals:

1. The recent rule changes make a prolific passing offense nearly unstoppable (e.g. Saints, Colts, Vikes).
2. Salary constraints make having a dominant offense and a dominant defense impossible.
3. The best strategy is to improve on your competitive advantage. In the case of the Pats, that is Brady/Moss (for at least another year).

 

[ALP]

I completely agree. Plus, compound all that anecdotal evidence with the following NFL fundamentals:

1. The recent rule changes make a prolific passing offense nearly unstoppable (e.g. Saints, Colts, Vikes).
2. Salary constraints make having a dominant offense and a dominant defense impossible.
3. The best strategy is to improve on your competitive advantage. In the case of the Pats, that is Brady/Moss (for at least another year).

And after moss is gone our advantage is still offense so long as we have brady

 

[VJCPatriot]

I just don't think our defense is made for one of those 15 sack guys like Merriman, Ware, or Harrison. I don't think Ware would come in and produce like he has in Dallas, just like Adalius hasn't done so. IMO, it's more about our seemingly more conservative "bend but don't break defense" than the personnel we have. Would a guy like Ware or Woodley help? Absolutely. But would a move to a more aggressive one-gap defense (like Pittsburgh or NYJ) be even more beneficial? IMO, yes.

Tully Banta Cain recorded double digit sacks in this defensive system. And he's no Demarcus Ware. Mike Vrable, ditto. He may be well above average in smarts but nobody would claim he's an athletic beast like Ware is. The point is that you can't just blame the system, because the system has MADE our OLBs look better than they are. Ware is a monster no matter where you put him.

Of course we'd like to get a Demarcus Ware type of player, but usually those types of guys go way too early for where the Pats draft. They're going to have to get really lucky, and in any case I'm not sure there's anybody the caliber of a Ware in this year's draft.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Tully Banta Cain recorded double digit sacks in this defensive system. And he's no Demarcus Ware. Mike Vrable, ditto. He may be well above average in smarts but nobody would claim he's an athletic beast like Ware is. The point is that you can't just blame the system, because the system has MADE our OLBs look better than they are. Ware is a monster no matter where you put him.

Of course we'd like to get a Demarcus Ware type of player, but usually those types of guys go way too early for where the Pats draft. They're going to have to get really lucky, and in any case I'm not sure there's anybody the caliber of a Ware in this year's draft.

Mike Vrabel had double digit sacks once in his career in 2007, where opposing teams were often down by a lot of points and the Pats could just "pin their ears back" and get after the QB due to obvious passing situations. TBC had 5 out of his 10 sacks against Buffalo, one of the worst OL's in the league. His previous high in sacks with NE was around 5.5 sacks. Willie Mac had one season of double digit sacks back in the mid-90's and never produced a double digit sack season again. Adalius was supposed to come in and have a Ware-like impact, and has never put up more than 6.5 sacks in a season.

How can it not be the system? Ware has flourished in Wade Phillips' blitz happy attacking scheme and put up 14, 20, and 11 sacks in the last 3 years respectively. Merriman, pre-injury, put up double digit sack totals in 3 consecutive years in a more aggressive 3-4 defense that had Wade Phillips as its coordinator at a point in time. James Harrison and Lamar Woodley have both posted back to back double digit sack totals in Lebeau's "BlitzBurgh" attack. Mike Nolan comes into Denver, inserts a more penetrating style of defense, and Dumervil explodes to lead the league with 17 sacks. Clay Matthews comes right out of college into GB's defense run by Capers, who worked with Lebeau in Pitt during the 90's, and has double digit sack totals.

There is no doubt that a pass rusher Ware would help, but just because you bring a guy like him or Peppers doesn't mean they are going to come in, fix the pass rushing woes, and continue to be a monster and put up double digit sack totals. We all thought Adalius Thomas was going to come in and do that, and he hasn't. I just don't think our current defensive scheme is built for an OLB to come in post double digit sacks every year. Over the years we've loved to disguise our pass rush, drop different guys into coverage, and rely on a great D-Line with Seymour-Wilfork/Washington-Warren to help collapse the pocket.

My point is that even if a Ware, Peppers, healthy Merriman, etc. was brought in, fans would be somewhat disappointed because I think we'd see a dip in their sack totals. A talent like one of those guys at OLB would undoubtedly help, but their production wouldn't be the same. I just can't see an OLB in our defense putting up 15 sacks per year consistently. Just my opinion.