Curran:Loss all on McCourty

[wyomingpatsfan]

Very simple...mccourt is no good...he was bad last season and is worse this year...

I fail to understand why BB keeps him...I applaud the defensive picks the Pats made to improve the d this year, but I did not understand why most of the secondary was not replaced.

It was a mistake to keep mccourt. The definition of insanity is expecting different results with the same players!!!

I knew the Pats would loose to Baltimore on the last drive because of the secondary.

My bumper sticker reads, 'Impeach D. McCourty!"

 

[Boomer B]

Scott Zolak knows as much about football as Ty Law AND he was actually at the game with a bird's eye view of the entire field unlike Law who was in the Comcast studios. Zolak says overall, McCourty played well in the game with several mistakes. I would take Zolak's opinion over Law's just because Zolak could see the entire field and not just what NBC broadcasted.

McCourty did play well at times in the game, you're right about that. But coming down the stretch he wasn't very good, especially the last drive.

There aren't many true shutdown corners in the league, and most corners will give up some plays here and there, but when McCourty is bad he gives up too many big plays. So when you look at last night, even though he had good coverage at times, there were too many negative plays (missed picks, whiffing on the tackle, letting Jones get by him on the last drive and then a few plays later committing the PI).

That being said the D on a whole after the 1st qtr were not very good. No pressure from the front 7, coaches being afraid to blitz, bad secondary play., etc...As a group they got to get better.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Let's pass the hat and buy McCourty, Torry Smith's brothers motorcycle.

You should be banned from this website after posting this....... without question.

 

[Ring 6]

The PI was horrible. I guess I don't really understand the logic that says because he was ok for much of the game, we're going to declare him not crappy for making the play that lost the game.

It was terrible defense and it was terrible judgment. Don't commit a penalty there. Make the guy make a play. You have to understand the situation. A penalty there equals a virtually certain loss. Even a catch and touchdown gives your offense a chance to get back on the field. Maybe he drops it and they have to kick a 50 yarder with plenty of time left on the clock. Horrible horrible play, and I really don't care how many good plays he made before it.

Everyone will make bad plays during a game, I suppose. But when the game is on the line, to compound bad defense with a preventable mental error is inexcusable. You have to understand score and situation. Committing and obvious penalty that will likely lose the game and hoping it won't get called is not the percentage play.

That is a very naive view of what McCourty was dealing with on that play.
It was 3rd and 9 in FG range, at the edge of range, in a 2 point game. A stop there means a long FG by a rookie.
It is so easy to criticize that he should have played it differently. It was apparently man coverage and there was no deep help. In other words, he had Jones all over the field.
The first thought has to be to stop the 10 yard route that creates a first down and better FG range.
"You can't let the man behind you" is naive in this situation. 10 yards is not really much better than 30.
Put any corner on an island on 3rd and 9, where a first down is most likely the game, and get no pass rush, and you are going to get a similar result.
I'm sure if he played 5 yards off of him and they completed a 10 yard out everyone would have called that good.

I have a bigger issue with the completion at the start of the drive that he allowed.
In that case he did exactly what you are saying, and refused to let the receiver get behind him, but they did an intentional underthrow, and he didn't come back. Hard to tell what the call was, because the safety was very late.
Either McCourty read it was going deep, like the Int he almost had, or the safety was out of position if he was supposed to help and McCourty played it safe.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

McCourty did play well at times in the game, you're right about that. But coming down the stretch he wasn't very good, especially the last drive.

There aren't many true shutdown corners in the league, and most corners will give up some plays here and there, but when McCourty is bad he gives up too many big plays. So when you look at last night, even though he had good coverage at times, there were too many negative plays (missed picks, whiffing on the tackle, letting Jones get by him on the last drive and then a few plays later committing the PI).

That being said the D on a whole after the 1st qtr were not very good. No pressure from the front 7, coaches being afraid to blitz, bad secondary play., etc...As a group they got to get better.

I just feel like people are being totally illogical about this.

Yeah, McCourty gave up some big plays. So did Arrington. No threads about impeaching Kyle (nor should there be).

McCourty missed two picks, one he was tackled on, another was one he probably should have made. Arrington tripped on an easy lob.

Yeah, McCourty whiffed on a tackle. So did Gregory and a lot of guys.

Yeah, Jones got by McCourty for 24 yards. He also blew by Arrington for a 41-yard reception, as did Smith on his 25-yard touchdown, as did Boldin for 24 more yards in the 4th.

McCourty had two penalties, the first was ridiculous and dubious. The second was the final drive and pretty obvious. But there were 3 other Patriots who received penalties that gave the Ravens automatic first downs, and yes Arrington was one of them.

This isn't meant to pick on Arrington. It's just to show how totally obsessed some people are with getting rid of McCourty. Yes, he can do better. But let's not be totally irrational and stupid in seething rage. It's no different than those calling to cut Gronkowski after the Cleveland loss.

 

[wyomingpatsfan]

As I watched the game last night I saw a secondary that looked eerily similar to the one we saw last year. I believe this team is going to reel off a nice winning streak starting with Buffalo but we won't win the superbowl unless the secondary can get it together.

HELLO!!! They are the same secondary....with a dash of Gregory......

 

[Ring 6]

Very nice. Guys like Ty Law (who knows a lot more about playing corner then you or me) are talking about how poor he was yet you retort with a "you don't understand football" comment when it's been made pretty clear that he was targeted 2x for long passes on the last drive.

Did Ty Law say the 'went after him hard'? Because that is what you said that I responded to. Because Ty Law spoke about McCourty does not support your opinion.
Again, there is no point in discussing if you want take that surface approach and call it something it isb't

By the way, I've both played and coached football, but I won't resort to telling anyone i've never met that I know more then them about the game.

I'm not telling you I know more than you, I am telling you that your statement that 'they went after him hard' backed up by 2 throws and the misconception that they were predetermined to attack him as a plan, is simply wrong.

Watch the plays.
The first McCourty either had no help, or the help didnt come in time. Jones ran a go, and McCourty had deep position. Flacco read the safety, saw McCourty with deep leverage and intentionally underthrew. That is not targetting.

On the second it was 3rd and 9. A first down turn a 52 yard game winner into a 43 or less. A 5 yard hitch turned it into a 47 yarder. A 30 yard pass was a risky call. Again, Flacco read the safety, saw the reciever behind McCourty who was no playing leverage to stop the short incut, and threw there. Again hardly a predetermined target.

I'm sure you know many things about football, but you have this one wrong.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

You should be banned from this website after posting this....... without question.

And he's posted it TWICE.

 

[Ring 6]

I just feel like people are being totally illogical about this.

Yeah, McCourty gave up some big plays. So did Arrington. No threads about impeaching Kyle (nor should there be).

McCourty missed two picks, one he was tackled on, another was one he probably should have made. Arrington tripped on an easy lob.

Yeah, McCourty whiffed on a tackle. So did Gregory and a lot of guys.

Yeah, Jones got by McCourty for 24 yards. He also blew by Arrington for a 41-yard reception, as did Smith on his 25-yard touchdown, as did Boldin for 24 more yards in the 4th.

McCourty had two penalties, the first was ridiculous and dubious. The second was the final drive and pretty obvious. But there were 3 other Patriots who received penalties that gave the Ravens automatic first downs, and yes Arrington was one of them.

This isn't meant to pick on Arrington. It's just to show how totally obsessed some people are with getting rid of McCourty. Yes, he can do better. But let's not be totally irrational and stupid in seething rage. It's no different than those calling to cut Gronkowski after the Cleveland loss.

Good points.
1 correction. Jones didnt get by McCourty for 24, it was an intentional underthrow when McC had deep leverage with no help (or failed help).

 

[1%er]

Let's pass the hat and buy McCourty, Torry Smith's brothers motorcycle.

One of the most pointless, immature posts I've ever seen. We are talking about a 19 year old kid dying and you make a joke about it.

NFL rivalry or not Torry Smith appears to be a great kid who suffered a terrible loss. Show some respect.

 

[1%er]

Re: Devin McCourty = Suck

He needs to be benched. If he's in position to make a play he doesn't make it and the rest of the time he gets burnt.

I must of been watching a different game. How is this loss on McCourty? Because he didn't catch the interceptions? Don't you think if McCourty could catch he would of been a WR all these years?

Overall he played a good game IMO. He gave up a few plays but he also made a few good plays. Kyle Arrington got beat much more.

 

[VJCPatriot]

So you're saying you don't have a problem with the fact that McCourty screwed up, just when he screwed up? He probably screwed up both times. For some reason McCourty can't play man defense anymore. Never turns his head around. And the dropped interceptions were pretty bad as well. Not sure how you can defend this player. He needs to learn to step it up, because right now he is a weak link on defense. I'm not gonna blame the whole loss on him, it's always a team loss but he was definitely a weak link.

That is a very naive view of what McCourty was dealing with on that play.
It was 3rd and 9 in FG range, at the edge of range, in a 2 point game. A stop there means a long FG by a rookie.
It is so easy to criticize that he should have played it differently. It was apparently man coverage and there was no deep help. In other words, he had Jones all over the field.
The first thought has to be to stop the 10 yard route that creates a first down and better FG range.
"You can't let the man behind you" is naive in this situation. 10 yards is not really much better than 30.
Put any corner on an island on 3rd and 9, where a first down is most likely the game, and get no pass rush, and you are going to get a similar result.
I'm sure if he played 5 yards off of him and they completed a 10 yard out everyone would have called that good.

I have a bigger issue with the completion at the start of the drive that he allowed.
In that case he did exactly what you are saying, and refused to let the receiver get behind him, but they did an intentional underthrow, and he didn't come back. Hard to tell what the call was, because the safety was very late.
Either McCourty read it was going deep, like the Int he almost had, or the safety was out of position if he was supposed to help and McCourty played it safe.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Very simple...mccourt is no good...he was bad last season and is worse this year...

I fail to understand why BB keeps him...I applaud the defensive picks the Pats made to improve the d this year, but I did not understand why most of the secondary was not replaced.

It was a mistake to keep mccourt. The definition of insanity is expecting different results with the same players!!!

I knew the Pats would loose to Baltimore on the last drive because of the secondary.

My bumper sticker reads, 'Impeach D. McCourty!"

This is totally unfair. McCourty is a good CB; few if any CBs can have 100% coverage on every play. Even Revis would get beat occasionally. As far as McCourty's dropped INTs, he need to get some credit for being in the right place in the first place--if a CBs had great hands they would be WRs.

The Patriots lost because they were demoralized by the ref's obvious attempts to rig the game in the first half such as the chicken-bleep holding call on Gronk. Holding calls are the usual way refs rig games but I have never seen such a blatant set of rigged calls as last night. It was as if there was nothing they could do to win this game; that my friends is demoralizing.

 

[unoriginal]

Pass defense is all about making plays and being in position to make plays, and that means turnovers. Even if you start giving up first downs like crazy, if 5% of the time you get your mitts on a ball, all that yardage effectively gets nullified. Pats offense stresses turnovers for this reason.

If McCourty or any one gets beat flat-footed on a double move, well, that's going to happen and can happen without being lethal. Swatting balls into the turf when you meant to catch it and/or stumbling around like a baby deer when the ball is thrown right to you can't happen. The whole point of the bend-but-don't-break defense it to sit back and capitalize on those events. Surrender yardage, limit damage, make the offense repeat itself, identify and pounce on mistakes.

Through three games, the Pats are middle of the pack in interceptions (2) and bottom third in passes defensed (12) on middle-of-the-pack passing attempts (109). They have missed a number of opportunities to create turnovers. Consequently, they are a middle-of-the-pack defense. You can not be a good defense if you consistently fail to make plays on the ball.

What is concerning is that the pattern the last few years is for secondary players to slowly become less able to make plays on the ball the more experience they gain in the defense. This year the rookie and the free agent have the only picks, and only Gregory's int looked decisive. The list of players who have looked good immediately (McCourty, Butler, Dowling) or hit early peaks (Arrington, Hobbs, Meriweather) before tailing off into "help me, I'm being attacked by footballs" territory doesn't speak well for the coaching. It's like players just succumb to an expectation of failure, or just buck the program completely (Meriweather).

 

[jnug]

Pass defense is all about making plays and being in position to make plays, and that means turnovers. Even if you start giving up first downs like crazy, if 5% of the time you get your mitts on a ball, all that yardage effectively gets nullified. Pats offense stresses turnovers for this reason.

If McCourty or any one gets beat flat-footed on a double move, well, that's going to happen and can happen without being lethal. Swatting balls into the turf when you meant to catch it and/or stumbling around like a baby deer when the ball is thrown right to you can't happen. The whole point of the bend-but-don't-break defense it to sit back and capitalize on those events. Surrender yardage, limit damage, make the offense repeat itself, identify and pounce on mistakes.

Through three games, the Pats are middle of the pack in interceptions (2) and bottom third in passes defensed (12) on middle-of-the-pack passing attempts (109). They have missed a number of opportunities to create turnovers. Consequently, they are a middle-of-the-pack defense. You can not be a good defense if you consistently fail to make plays on the ball.

What is concerning is that the pattern the last few years is for secondary players to slowly become less able to make plays on the ball the more experience they gain in the defense. This year the rookie and the free agent have the only picks, and only Gregory's int looked decisive. The list of players who have looked good immediately (McCourty, Butler, Dowling) or hit early peaks (Arrington, Hobbs, Meriweather) before tailing off into "help me, I'm being attacked by footballs" territory doesn't speak well for the coaching. It's like players just succumb to an expectation of failure, or just buck the program completely (Meriweather).

Great post at least in my opinion.

The only thing I would question is that I am not sure the athletic ability is there in the first place with some of these guys. In other words, I think the Pats favor guys that are willing to put in the time to learn their intricate defensive schemes but downplay the importance of athletes in a league that allows what I call gazelles to run through your defensive secondary. I just think we need a few more athletes back there...a combination of guys that know the defensive schemes like the back of their hand and guys that can make athletic plays on the ball. I can see where getting both talents in the same uni can be tough but we just don't have enough guys that can make athletic plays in that secondary.

 

[PittPatriot]

hard to rush the passer when getting held

I was at the game so I was not privy to expert TV analysis, but here is my take:
Sure there were some missed calls, but winners overcome the petty stuff.
Try blitzing the QB like….ONCE. Flacco has roots - the guy moves worse than Brady and we did not even lay a finger on him. Shame on our defensive coaches for allowing Flacco to sit back and pick apart our substandard defensive backfield.

 

[ATippett56]

So you're saying you don't have a problem with the fact that McCourty screwed up, just when he screwed up? He probably screwed up both times. For some reason McCourty can't play man defense anymore. Never turns his head around.

Every cornerback currently on the New England Patriots roster is a liability in man coverage.

 

[Deus Irae]

Every defensive back currently on the New England Patriots roster is a liability in man coverage.

Fixed your post

 

[BananaRepublican]

What is concerning is that the pattern the last few years is for secondary players to slowly become less able to make plays on the ball the more experience they gain in the defense. This year the rookie and the free agent have the only picks, and only Gregory's int looked decisive. The list of players who have looked good immediately (McCourty, Butler, Dowling) or hit early peaks (Arrington, Hobbs, Meriweather) before tailing off into "help me, I'm being attacked by footballs" territory doesn't speak well for the coaching. It's like players just succumb to an expectation of failure, or just buck the program completely (Meriweather).

I think you may have nailed something here. And it's not exactly a pretty picture.

 

[BananaRepublican]

Every cornerback currently on the New England Patriots roster is a liability in man coverage.

Ty Law had a lucid observation ... why can't a guy get up near the LOS and bump somebody off his route, or at least TRY when they have safety help over the top? McCourty was not even trying to get that contact and that is mystifying. Ty says they are playing PREVENT all the time. Why?? Can they distrust both safety and corner that much to blow it on a single receiver?

No wonder we never blitz. This is like a No Confidence approach that is a gift to the QB when the front four can't get the pressure.