Cornerbacks MAJOR weakness

[Deus Irae]

It's long been time to get off the "short CBs" whine... Only perfect throws to tall receivers in the right situation will expose the "short CB" crap, which happens rarely. A lot less often than CBs biting on the wrong route and leaving a guy wide open.

It's a huge advantage in the red zone. 6'3" vs. 5'9" is half a foot of advantage for the WR on any lob pass.

 

[Pats_R_#1]

By the way, I'd take Fitz 1-on-1 against ANY CB in the league, and I'd probably win that matchup more often than not. It doesn't matter what CB you're talking about, they all need a little help against the taller WRs.

 

[emoney_33]

Something tells me you never called Samuel short, yet he's only 1" taller than Hobbs. Go ahead and track down a ruler so you can see what 1" looks like. It's not nearly as much of a difference as some people want to believe.

If a CB can get good position and time his jumps correctly, an extra inch or two makes minimal difference in the effectiveness of said CB.

Plus height doesn't give you the total picture. If a 5'10" player can jump higher and reach higher than a 6' player, why is the 6' CB's height an advantage over the guy who can reach higher?

 

[emoney_33]

It's a huge advantage in the red zone. 6'3" vs. 5'9" is half a foot of advantage for the WR on any lob pass.

I understand that, but there are a lot less cases of a CB losing a battle because of height than there are because of poor technique, footwork etc...

No matter how high the receiver can reach/jump, he always has to land with the ball in possession for it to be a completition.

Technique, footwork, intelligence, ability are a whole lot more important than height in a CB.

Samuel isn't considered good because of his height.

 

[JR4]

It's a huge advantage in the red zone. 6'3" vs. 5'9" is half a foot of advantage for the WR on any lob pass.

So .... how many Lob Passes for TDs against PATs corners do you
predict this year? ... with such a "HUGE ADVANTAGE" .. it should be
at least 8 ... right?

BTW, how many against Hobbs last year?

 

[Pats726]

I still think height is overrated...yes on lob passes there can be an advantage...BUT?? vertical leap arm span..THOSE are just as important on lob passes...as well as timing. I also think the new force out rule negation makes corners a bit tougher near teh sideline...just ram teh guy as he touches it and most likely he'kk be landing out of bounds..THAT was a big rule change ADVANTGE D!!

 

[Deus Irae]

So .... how many Lob Passes for TDs against PATs corners do you
predict this year? ... with such a "HUGE ADVANTAGE" .. it should be
at least 8 ... right?

BTW, how many against Hobbs last year?

How the hell am I supposed to know how many will happen this year? I didn't claim it was a death sentence. I stated the obvious. Are you seriously trying to argue that a wide receiver having 6 inches of height on the cornerback doesn't have a big advantage on lob passes? Ask NBA players about height and jump balls, and height and lob passes.

As for the Hobbs question, feel free to look it up.

 

[Patjew]

It's a huge advantage in the red zone. 6'3" vs. 5'9" is half a foot of advantage for the WR on any lob pass.

Yes, presuming exactly the same arm length and jumping ability.

 

[JR4]

How the hell am I supposed to know how many will happen this year? I didn't claim it was a death sentence. I stated the obvious. Are you seriously trying to argue that a wide receiver having 6 inches of height on the cornerback doesn't have a big advantage on lob passes? Ask NBA players about height and jump balls, and height and lob passes.

As for the Hobbs question, feel free to look it up.

This is not Basketball.

I do not believe it is as big advantage as many think it is. If it were,
we'd be seeing it all the time.
There is a lot that has to happen right for a lob to be successful.
There are many factors that can screw it up. Good defenders are
not going to let a WR go where he wants to go. That in itself will
screw up a good lob pass.

Even in Bball where there is a lot less to worry about, like guys usually
don't have to worry about 300 lb Dline men pouncing on them and less
than half the number of moving parts,
ally Oops don't happen all that frequently and when they do it's not because of a sever height disadvantage .... it has more to do with blown coverage.

as for hobbs stats:

here is one lob that didn't happen
(10:11) 9-T.Romo pass incomplete short left to 17-S.Hurd. Pass lobbed left corner end zone 4 yards deep; Hobbs closest defender.

that's a 5" advantage and Sam Hurd can jump. over a 40" verticle !!

 

[Deus Irae]

This is not Basketball.

I do not believe it is as big advantage as many think it is. If it were,
we'd be seeing it all the time.
There is a lot that has to happen right for a lob to be successful.
There are many factors that can screw it up. Good defenders are
not going to let a WR go where he wants to go. That in itself will
screw up a good lob pass.

Even in Bball where there is a lot less to woory about, like guys usually
don't have to worry about 300 lb Dline men pouncing on them and less
than half the number of moving parts,
ally Oops don't happen all that frequently and when they do it's not because of a sever height disadvantage .... it has more to do with blown coverage.

as for hobbs stats:

here is one lob that didn't happen
(10:11) 9-T.Romo pass incomplete short left to 17-S.Hurd. Pass lobbed left corner end zone 4 yards deep; Hobbs closest defender.

that's a 5" advantage and Sam Hurd and jump. over a 40" verticle !!

Lobs happen all the time, and the taller player always has an inherent advantage. Now, they don't all get completed, but the word advantage does not mean guaranteed victory. For goodness' sakes, you're a Patriots fan who, I assume, saw Moss catching jump balls last season. Moss at 5'9 is not catching all those passes.

 

[JR4]

Well ... maybe you could come up with a new offense ... call it the
Deus Lob Away Offense.
Here's how it works.
You get a receiving core that has 2 or 3 .... 6'8' basketball Forwards.
Then just lob your way down field ending with an alley opp in the end zone.
just kidding.

Just glad there is only one Randy Moss in this league.:rocker:
I really feel Wheatly and Hobbs will do fine against 95% of the passes they
will have to defend. Will they give up a TD here and there? Maybe .... but
most of the time they'll be ok.

 

[DW Toys]

Something tells me you never called Samuel short, yet he's only 1" taller than Hobbs. Go ahead and track down a ruler so you can see what 1" looks like. It's not nearly as much of a difference as some people want to believe.

If a CB can get good position and time his jumps correctly, an extra inch or two makes minimal difference in the effectiveness of said CB.

Samuel had skills and smarts. Darrell Green was great too. But you see the pattern of the big wide receiver now (yes, I know, Welker, Steve Smith and I say exceptions to the rule).
Be honest. How comfortable are you to see Hobbs matched up on Plex? Plex wins 7 of 10 on Hobbs' best day. P.S. I like Hobbs. To play hurt like he did impresses me. My comment is just fact. Wait till the Cards get here. We will win I believe but their WR will have huge days. Agreed?
Your right, 5' 10" doesn't sound like a lot over 5' 9". How many believe that Hobbs is really 5' 9"?
A short CB is not the way to go today.
I think Hobbs and the 2 other smurfs are more nickle DB's as the slot receivers tend to be smaller.
DW Toys

 

[mgteich]

My bottom line is that I think that our corners are our weakest defensive unit, but that's fine. If the DL does its job, the corners will look and be fine.

We went into the season with Hobbs and Spann. Belichick needed to find both veterans and rookies, so that the rookies wouldn't get killed, and would have time to develop. Belichick chose not to sign a $6M man. If he were ready to do that, he would have kept Samuel.

Belichick added O'Neal, Lewis Sanders, Wheatley and Wilhite (and all that are now gone). Could we really have asked for much more, expect perhaps giving up a draft choice and millions for veteran who WE think would fit in?

How'd our future at corner? Well, in addition to the developing Hobbs, we have our two rookies, and we still have Richardson on the Practive Squad.

Oh, and BTW, Belichick is still talking to defensive backs. We might still get Law OR Lynch.

 

[emoney_33]

Samuel had skills and smarts. Darrell Green was great too. But you see the pattern of the big wide receiver now (yes, I know, Welker, Steve Smith and I say exceptions to the rule).
Be honest. How comfortable are you to see Hobbs matched up on Plex? Plex wins 7 of 10 on Hobbs' best day. P.S. I like Hobbs. To play hurt like he did impresses me. My comment is just fact. Wait till the Cards get here. We will win I believe but their WR will have huge days. Agreed?
Your right, 5' 10" doesn't sound like a lot over 5' 9". How many believe that Hobbs is really 5' 9"?
A short CB is not the way to go today.
I think Hobbs and the 2 other smurfs are more nickle DB's as the slot receivers tend to be smaller.
DW Toys

Hobbs has skills, speed and great technique. Samuel has instincts and takes a lot of risks.

 

[Deus Irae]

Well ... maybe you could come up with a new offense ... call it the
Deus Lob Away Offense.
Here's how it works.
You get a receiving core that has 2 or 3 .... 6'8' basketball Forwards.
Then just lob your way down field ending with an alley opp in the end zone.
just kidding.

Just glad there is only one Randy Moss in this league.:rocker:
I really feel Wheatly and Hobbs will do fine against 95% of the passes they
will have to defend. Will they give up a TD here and there? Maybe .... but
most of the time they'll be ok.

I'm with you on the 95% notion in theory, FWIW, although I'm not sure about the real percentage. I think we've seen height matters on long passes with high arcs (remember that long bomb caught over Hobbs, as well as the Moss examples) and on lobs in the red zone but, for normal passes, I don't think the height is big a drawback. The key is to try to avoid those situations, because games are often lost on just one or two key plays.

 

[Kontradiction]

I've said it before and I will say it again: I have been worried about our CB corps since Asante left town. We have probably one of the worst/most unproven CB corps in the league. Hopefully Wheatley or Wilhite shines or O'Neal has a great year in our scheme because if they don't and we can't get any pressure on the QB, we are going to get lit up. I'm no chicken little but a lot of you guys overrate Hobbs as well. I've seen the guy give up big pass play after big pass play. The last one he gave up in a real game cost us the Super Bowl. He was at least three steps behind Burress.

I'm feeling a little more content now that we have O'Neal instead of Bryant but CB is still a major weakness for us. I'm praying to God that our front seven will repeatedly knock the quarterback on his ass.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

The last one he gave up in a real game cost us the Super Bowl. He was at least three steps behind Burress.

He was three steps behind Burress because he was recovering. He showed pretty good recovery speed on that play. His job was to take away the inside route. He did. I find it hard to believe that people are still blaming Hobbs for that play. He shouldve had help to the outside, and didnt. Why? I don't know, I'm not B.B. What I do know is, you can't blame the loss on him alone.

The rest of your post I'll agree with. Then again, every year I think our secondary is weak, and they always do good enough.

 

[Kontradiction]

He was three steps behind Burress because he was recovering. He showed pretty good recovery speed on that play. His job was to take away the inside route. He did. I find it hard to believe that people are still blaming Hobbs for that play. He shouldve had help to the outside, and didnt. Why? I don't know, I'm not B.B. What I do know is, you can't blame the loss on him alone.

The rest of your post I'll agree with. Then again, every year I think our secondary is weak, and they always do good enough.

I find that hard to accept only because you are not the defensive coordinator, nor is anyone else here. But if that actually turned out to be a valid reason, I came name at least 10 different times where Hobbs just got flat out burned.

 

[PATRIOT64]

I find that hard to accept only because you are not the defensive coordinator, nor is anyone else here. But if that actually turned out to be a valid reason, I came name at least 10 different times where Hobbs just got flat out burned.

I get a kick out of some of the jerkoffs in here who flip flop crap like 'well the guy is only a rookie so you have to give him a few years,you can't expect alot as a rookie (ala Chad Jackson) ' but now that Wheately has been noted to be a likely starter opposite Ellis all of a sudden he should team with Hobbs to be pretty good on about 95% of plays thrown against them the entire season and may,just may give up a few TDs to receivers who have height advantages,to which MANY will

So because BB thinks he is good enough to be a starter all of a sudden this rookie is going to only miss about 5% of plays against him and Hobbs with taller receivers? Only 5 freaking percent based on plays towards them the whole season??

WTF kind of mentality do we have in here with some of these members?? - Its embarrasing how things get turned around almost on a daily basis in this forum

First Chad Jackson 'should have been given a couple years to develop and he will be a superstar' was stated hundreds of times but now that he is cut the same guys are saying he was a waste,not pro ball material ,he sucked all the time ect:

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

I find that hard to accept only because you are not the defensive coordinator, nor is anyone else here. But if that actually turned out to be a valid reason, I came name at least 10 different times where Hobbs just got flat out burned.

Not to start sh*t with ya, but you are right. I'm not a d.c., but neither are you. So how is your opinion about Hobbs correct, and mine not?