Coaching wise Bill isnt doing much different than he did in the past

[Redman443]

The problem is, whenever we play a good team, there just isnt enough talent to be competitive. On the defensive side of the ball, our stud rookie corner is out for the year, Judon is out for the year. They cant get much pressure at all on opposing QBs and whenever Tua had a clean pocket, he picked apart the secondary. On offense, that is a thing BB the GM has neglected to address for years. Theres no true WR1, nobody who can consistently get open and nobody who can have explosive plays. Mac is not the kind of QB like Mahomes or Josh Allen whos going to turn nothing into something if the play breaks down. He doesnt have the internal clock and the way Brady processed the field when he was in the pocket. When opposing teams blitz, he normally just takes a sack or throws it away although it certainly doesnt help that nobody can get separation. The thing is, I believe Bill actually prepares this team well every sunday but playing a team like the Dolphins or the chiefs later on in the year, theres just a huge talent gap that was not there in the past.

 

[archstanton543]

The problem is, whenever we play a good team, there just isnt enough talent to be competitive. On the defensive side of the ball, our stud rookie corner is out for the year, Judon is out for the year. They cant get much pressure at all on opposing QBs and whenever Tua had a clean pocket, he picked apart the secondary. On offense, that is a thing BB the GM has neglected to address for years. Theres no true WR1, nobody who can consistently get open and nobody who can have explosive plays. Mac is not the kind of QB like Mahomes or Josh Allen whos going to turn nothing into something if the play breaks down. He doesnt have the internal clock and the way Brady processed the field when he was in the pocket. When opposing teams blitz, he normally just takes a sack or throws it away although it certainly doesnt help that nobody can get separation. The thing is, I believe Bill actually prepares this team well every sunday but playing a team like the Dolphins or the chiefs later on in the year, theres just a huge talent gap that was not there in the past.

That's the problem with Mac. He hardly ever throws it away. It's either a sack or INT (lately). I wouldn't mind a few Bledsoe Specials (throwaways) in there.

 

[Nikolai]

That's the problem with Mac. He hardly ever throws it away. It's either a sack or INT (lately). I wouldn't mind a few Bledsoe Specials (throwaways) in there.

Hell, even Brady was a skilled master at the "judicious throwaway", sometimes even on third down, or on third down in the red zone. Take the L and live to fight another day.

 

[sb1]

Mac says he’s talking to Brady. Maybe he should hire him to as a personal coach. Brady can teach him the TB12 aspect of it too.

 

[FCB02062]

Bill's philosophy is ridiculously outdated for the modern nfl and the the club he assembled. From 2001 to 2019 we saw Bill's bend but don't break defense work to the tune of 6 super bowls. But remove the magic elixir - Tom Brady - and it goes down the ****ter. It goes something like this....Pats defer, other team gets a few first downs, maybe gets a FG. Brady leads a td drive, up 7-3 or 7-0. Same thing again when opponent has the ball maybe they get another fg. Brady again leads a TD drive and its 14-0, 14-6, 14-3 etc. Pats up at least a TD. Pats receive, get a TD, and it's 21-6, 21-10, whatever, and now the other team is chasing and needs to get out of their game plan.
This is how at least half of the games on the Pats schedule would play out almost every season like clock work. Throw in a turnover or two from the other team and we have a 17 point lead in the third quarter.
But now, Bills defense looks the same - not better, not worse. It's still swiss cheese at times (as it was when Brady was here), but there's no longer a capable offense because Bill the Coach and GM has neutered that side of the ball to the point that the 2023 Patriots offense would have difficulty competing in the MASCAC. the offense is so inept that it needs short fields to score. this was the case in 2019. Look at how many 70+ yard touchdown drives the Patriots have this year and last year - it's atrocious compared to the rest of the league.
It's time to clean house. Bill must go, his kids must go, everyone must go.

 

[Steve102]

I really believe that the rules limiting practices have taken away Bill's ability to make the team better prepared. The NFL took away his advantage, now talent trumps all. The Patriots were not the most talented team for 20 years, but they were the best prepared. You had a coach who demanded it and a player who demanded it. Now, that advantage of preparedness is gone.

 

[JayNM]

But the level playing field IS changing.

your title explains the problem almost completely....

I mean, think about it... Guys has been left with uncheck authority for 20 years, winning incredibly... I don't blame him for being skeptical of change

But when it's always like this, one a management cornerstone collapses - Brady leaving, in this cause, which has had ripple effects all over the Pats for years, i think undeniably - all the cracks in the armor start to wide and wide.

Ive said it before, what makes BB's tenure impossible here is the lack of "accountability" and "change". BB doesn't seem to think there is critical problems within the franchise right now AND seems to be looking backwards in history, not for the future. Those are MAJOR red flags.

Logically speaking, one more year makes sense. But I'd have to see a loooooot

 

[Nikolai]

I really believe that the rules limiting practices have taken away Bill's ability to make the team better prepared. The NFL took away his advantage, now talent trumps all. The Patriots were not the most talented team for 20 years, but they were the best prepared. You had a coach who demanded it and a player who demanded it. Now, that advantage of preparedness is gone.

I have strongly believed this as well. It became a trope in the years after the rule change that the Pats start slow and then get better throughout the year, and that wasn't an accident. Now BB uses the preseason and the first few games as practices, essentially trying to build the plane while in flight.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I really believe that the rules limiting practices have taken away Bill's ability to make the team better prepared. The NFL took away his advantage, now talent trumps all. The Patriots were not the most talented team for 20 years, but they were the best prepared. You had a coach who demanded it and a player who demanded it. Now, that advantage of preparedness is gone.

There might be something to that.

For two years the mental mistakes, penalties and inconsistent execution have been killing this team. Couple that with the lack of elite talent on the roster and you have 2-6 and a losing record last year.

It's kind of a Catch 22.

Bill may not be coaching different but he should or he may be coaching different and his approach is not working.

Either way, unlike years past they don't have a franchise QB and elite talent at various positions on the roster to overcome it.

 

[p8ryts]

The problem is, whenever we play a good team, there just isnt enough talent to be competitive. On the defensive side of the ball, our stud rookie corner is out for the year, Judon is out for the year. They cant get much pressure at all on opposing QBs and whenever Tua had a clean pocket, he picked apart the secondary. On offense, that is a thing BB the GM has neglected to address for years. Theres no true WR1, nobody who can consistently get open and nobody who can have explosive plays. Mac is not the kind of QB like Mahomes or Josh Allen whos going to turn nothing into something if the play breaks down. He doesnt have the internal clock and the way Brady processed the field when he was in the pocket. When opposing teams blitz, he normally just takes a sack or throws it away although it certainly doesnt help that nobody can get separation. The thing is, I believe Bill actually prepares this team well every sunday but playing a team like the Dolphins or the chiefs later on in the year, theres just a huge talent gap that was not there in the past.

I surrendered in the 3rd qtr. This was the third game in 63 years that I checked out early. I just cannot watch Mac Jones anymore. The defense is playing an explosive offense and doing a good job. The offense can't help out at all. There was a play in the second or third quarter, big pass rush, everybody picked up, nobody within 5 yards of Mac in the big pocket and he does his chicken dance. Another play 3rd and maybe 15, Mac immediately chucks it to Henry on the left flat who is blanketed. Wasted plays. I cannot watch him anymore.

 

[Steve102]

There might be something to that.

For two years the mental mistakes, penalties and inconsistent execution have been killing this team. Couple that with the lack of elite talent on the roster and you have 2-6 and a losing record last year.

It's kind of a Catch 22.

Bill may not be coaching different but he should or he may be coaching different and his approach is not working.

Either way, unlike years past they don't have a franchise QB and elite talent at various positions on the roster to overcome it.

I think he adjusts his coaching, as @Nikolai pointed out, he builds the plane mid-flight, but Bill the GM has not adjusted how he fills out the roster.

If they really believed they could win during the Brady years with a mid level game manager, that time has passed. They may be able to win with Mac, but the talent level surrounding him needs to be much faster. They need a top flight TE to block, a true 3rd down back who faster than Rham/Zeke, a true #1 WR and a stud OT.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Hell, even Brady was a skilled master at the "judicious throwaway", sometimes even on third down, or on third down in the red zone. Take the L and live to fight another day.

It took Tom a few years to do that, I remember him talking about how he has to learn to throw it away when nothings there, so he doesn't take a sack or throw an interception. He worked on everything he needed to like a mad man and he got great at it after a few years.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think he adjusts his coaching, as @Nikolai pointed out, he builds the plane mid-flight, but Bill the GM has not adjusted how he fills out the roster.

I'm not sure it's a Bill the GM needing to adjust but more of acquiring talented players at skill positions thing.

In terms of coaching, hes got to put a more disciplined team out there.

Penalties YoY (ranking in most penalized)
2023- 5th
2022-10th
2021-24th
2020- 31st
2019- 27th
2018- 29th
2017- 25th
2016- 29th

Pretty clear trend going the wrong way.

For the heck of it....looking at SB teams.

2014- 5th (was an anomaly as throughout the 2010s they were the least penalized team)
2007-25th
2011-27th

If they really believed they could win during the Brady years with a mid level game manager, that time has passed. They may be able to win with Mac, but the talent level surrounding him needs to be much faster. They need a top flight TE to block, a true 3rd down back who faster than Rham/Zeke, a true #1 WR and a stud OT.

I've never believed they (Bill) felt that way. Idiots like Judge or Fat Matt may have but not Bill.

Agree on players but I no longer think Mac is the guy.

 

[VrabelJr]

BB still coaches incredibly well. Every year we have FAs that come here and say something to the tune of “15 minutes with Bill taught me more than anything else ever.”

Our problem is the QB, some of the WRs, injuries, and divisional foes finally trending up while we trended down. Teams aren’t built in a season.

 

[Pats1971]

I think he adjusts his coaching, as @Nikolai pointed out, he builds the plane mid-flight, but Bill the GM has not adjusted how he fills out the roster.

If they really believed they could win during the Brady years with a mid level game manager, that time has passed. They may be able to win with Mac, but the talent level surrounding him needs to be much faster. They need a top flight TE to block, a true 3rd down back who faster than Rham/Zeke, a true #1 WR and a stud OT.

Brady was a midlevel game manager? Well no and that is the issue. Brady covered up a ton of things that exist now so they were not as noticed. The OP stated that Bill is coaching the same, thats true, he is also building a team the same. People yelling about weapons, when has Bill ever blew a bunch of money are receivers? Hell he probably has spent more since Brady left than when Brady was here. They never stacked this offense with all-pro talent all over the place, but we won, Brady made whatever work. I have seen Years where I have no idea how they went to the superbowl with the talent they had. 2011 for example, or even had a successful season 2013, 2006, etc. Unless Mac turns into a top end QB, how players are brought in and how the team is coached will have to change because you cannot do what you did when Brady was the Qb or you get 2-6 and no playoff wins for 4 years.

 

[Steve102]

Agree on players but I no longer think Mac is the guy.

I don't either. I think they can have a level of success with him, but he's never going to be great. He's much more the guy who you hope doesn't screw it up.

 

[Steve102]

Brady was a midlevel game manager? Well no and that is the issue. Brady covered up a ton of things that exist now so they were not as noticed. The OP stated that Bill is coaching the same, thats true, he is also building a team the same. People yelling about weapons, when has Bill ever blew a bunch of money are receivers? Hell he probably has spent more since Brady left than when Brady was here. They never stacked this offense with all-pro talent all over the place, but we won, Brady made whatever work. I have seen Years where I have no idea how they went to the superbowl with the talent they had. 2011 for example, or even had a successful season 2013, 2006, etc. Unless Mac turns into a top end QB, how players are brought in and how the team is coached will have to change because you cannot do what you did when Brady was the Qb or you get 2-6 and no playoff wins for 4 years.

I didn't say that.

 

[sb1]

I'm ready for a GM and coaching change. If 2024 is going to be a fresh start and a reboot then there might not be a better time to do it.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Hell, even Brady was a skilled master at the "judicious throwaway", sometimes even on third down, or on third down in the red zone. Take the L and live to fight another day.

It took Tom a few years to do that, I remember him talking about how he has to learn to throw it away when nothings there, so he doesn't take a sack or throw an interception. He worked on everything he needed to like a mad man and he got great at it after a few years.

He did, but it took him a long time to start that. Many don't remember he threw many redzone INT's from 2001-2006. Even later his career he had some amateur throws like the safety to start Super Bowl 46 and the intentional grounding vs the Seahawks throwing between the uprights. The one against the Seahawks was lame as many QB's do that and don't get called.

 

[h0c2000]

He did, but it took him a long time to start that. Many don't remember he threw many redzone INT's from 2001-2006. Even later his career he had some amateur throws like the safety to start Super Bowl 46 and the intentional grounding vs the Seahawks throwing between the uprights. The one against the Seahawks was lame as many QB's do that and don't get called.

2001: 1 Jeff Garcia Brian Griese 0
2002: 1 Pennington, Couch, Hasselback, McNabb 0
2003: 1 no one with less within 10 Attempts
2004: 0
2005: 2 several with 2 or less
2006: 0

I don't think the actual stats back up he threw many.

Edit: corrected 2003 & 2005.