Carucci: Peppers close to going to NE for #34 [mergedx3]

[Wildo7]

Re: Carucci: Peppers close to going to NE for #34 (merged 3x)

Love the sig, can't tell if he's waiting for the buffet to open or go eat some puppies, either way he looks hungry.

His suit looks uncomfortably tight....

 

[pats1]

A guaranteed option bonus is an option. What happens to the Patriots cap if 2010 is then capped???

Ha, that's the big question.

 

[Wildo7]

What's the penalty for going over the cap?

 

[jays52]

What's the penalty for going over the cap?

Hans Blix writes your team a letter saying how upset he is with you.

 

[eom]

league has to approve all contracts, so it generally doesn't happen.

I've been told it's impossible, but there's got to be some way it can happen.

 

[Wildo7]

Hans Blix writes your team a letter saying how upset he is with you.

well we can just kick him out of Foxboro then...

 

[solman]

Re: Carucci: Peppers close to going to NE for #34 (merged 3x)

waitaminute, I think I see --- there's no guaranteed money, just equal amounts of money covering all possible situations.
jesus, that's devious.
I still want to know how they get past the signing bonus hurdle.

I think its guaranteed. The press has reported it as guaranteed.

But it gets treated like a signing bonus paid at the time the option is exercised.

Press reports are a poor substitute for actual contractual language. Maybe there is some third scenario in which no money would be paid, but which neither party believes is actually possible. I'd be interested in seeing the actual language on one of these deals.

 

[eom]

Re: Carucci: Peppers close to going to NE for #34 (merged 3x)

I think its guaranteed. The press has reported it as guaranteed.

But it gets treated like a signing bonus paid at the time the option is exercised.

Press reports are a poor substitute for actual contractual language. Maybe there is some third scenario in which no money would be paid, but which neither party believes is actually possible. I'd be interested in seeing the actual language on one of these deals.

I was thinking about it, and it kind of makes sense in a nitpicky contractual way.

I could guarantee you 2m on a coin flip, or I couldgive you 2m on heads, and 2m on tails, which is the same thing in practicality, but guarantees the situation and not the money.
for example, I could say heads is 3m and tails is 4m ---- then what's guaranteed?
it just so happens in this case that the monies are equal, or I could even make them a dollar apart.

 

[pats1]

What's the penalty for going over the cap?

It's impossible. The NFL will disapprove any contracts that put you over the cap.

 

[pats1]

league has to approve all contracts, so it generally doesn't happen.

I've been told it's impossible, but there's got to be some way it can happen.

Yeah, just ask the Broncos circa 1998. Ask them how that one worked out.

 

[Miguel]

Re: Carucci: Peppers close to going to NE for #34 (merged 3x)

Curran and Ordway just cited Miguel on WEEI, but forgot to mention that the $7.8M didn't count Galloway or Wright. Yay!

Even after I specifically state that on the pageI really do not know how to make my page easier to read.

 

[RayClay]

I think they intend to use Peppers as an elephant, if anything. Interesting that the "expert" Carruci quoted has doubts about any easy transition to 3-4 too.

Patriots coach Bill Belichick is known for making excellent decisions when it comes to acquiring players, but at least one NFL player-personnel evaluator questions whether Peppers would be a good fit in New England.

"This is a guy who totally went on strike two years ago because he wasn't happy with his contract," said the player personnel source, who requested anonymity. "He's also very long (in the torso), which is not ideal for a 3-4 outside linebacker. And he can't drop into coverage. He's very stiff.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80f48fa8&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

 

[solman]

Re: Carucci: Peppers close to going to NE for #34 (merged 3x)

Someone reported a few pages back that if a franchise player is traded, the new team must have the full cap space money available for the franchise, even if the contract is restructured, or even if it is a sign and trade.

If he signs a deal negotiated by the Patriots and then gets traded, this isn't a problem. [I only just realized that by sign and trade, you mean sign the franchise tender and then trade.]

But there are other considerations, like how the league would view it.


I've long wondered about the possibility of a cap space for draft picks swap.

Suppose Team A wants player X, but doesn't have the cap space. Team B has cap space but needs draft picks.

1. Team A negotiates a contract with player X including a big signing bonus
2. Team A works out a trade with Team B. Team B gets a draft pick, and they get player X who is already signed to the deal that Team A has negotiated.
3. Player X signs the deal with Team B, getting the signing bonus from Team B.
4. Team B trades Player X to Team A for the pick

Net result:

Team B has BOUGHT a draft pick with cash and cap space equal to the signing bonus.
Team A has signed Player X while saving the cash and cap space paid by Team B

Alternate Net Result:

The commissioner voids the contract or trade or both. Possible NFLPA grievance follows.

 

[pats1]

I think they intend to use Peppers as an elephant, if anything. Interesting that the "expert" Carruci quoted has doubts about any easy transition to 3-4 too.




Patriots appear primed to make a deal with Panthers for Peppers

Well there's really not an elephant in this Patriots defense. All of their OLBs generally become DEs in sub packages - Vrabel, AD, McGinest, and Colvin all did. Seymour and Warren/Green moved inside. Then you have Mayo and a smaller guy (Guyton? Tank?) as your sub LBs.

 

[solman]

Re: Carucci: Peppers close to going to NE for #34 (merged 3x)

as far as his salary goes, they can only increase it 30% from one year to the next, I believe, and he's pretty cheap right now.

frankly, I don't know that there's any imperative for them to even re-sign wilfork right this minute, considering that they have the franchise tag to use, and the new financial landscape of 2010+.

The 30% rule only applies WITHIN contracts. Wilfork's current salary won't limit any future deal the Patriots give him. I think its intended to prevent teams from backloading cap costs into uncapped years. I'm not sure how effective it is at achieving this.

 

[RayClay]

Well there's really not an elephant in this Patriots defense. All of their OLBs generally become DEs in sub packages - Vrabel, AD, McGinest, and Colvin all did. Seymour and Warren/Green moved inside. Then you have Mayo and a smaller guy (Guyton? Tank?) as your sub LBs.

Of course there isn't. I doubt he will fit into the traditional OLB role, so they will need to change the defense to accommodate him rushing from various positions.

 

[solman]

A guaranteed option bonus is an option. What happens to the Patriots cap if 2010 is then capped???

If 2010 is capped then there is a new CBA and the option bonus is probably prorated over six seasons. The cap hit will be substantially similar to that of other big name free agent signings.

Still I don't think we consider this unless:

1. The Patriots are confident that 2010 will be uncapped and
2. Kraft is intent on turning the Patriot's financial strength into an on-field advantage. That won't make him too popular with the other owners.

 

[solman]

league has to approve all contracts, so it generally doesn't happen.

I've been told it's impossible, but there's got to be some way it can happen.

There is a provision somewhere in the CBA giving teams a short period of time (24 hours?) to cut players and then automatically voiding the most recently signed contracts.

NLTBE incentives in the year before an uncapped year (like 2009) can easily put a team over the cap. As soon as an NLTBE incentive is earned, it counts against the cap. If a team is over, they have to drop cap or the league will do it for them.

 

[eom]

Re: Carucci: Peppers close to going to NE for #34 (merged 3x)

The 30% rule only applies WITHIN contracts. Wilfork's current salary won't limit any future deal the Patriots give him. I think its intended to prevent teams from backloading cap costs into uncapped years. I'm not sure how effective it is at achieving this.

right, right....I actually don't remember now, but I think his question was if we could sign wilforkanythingonthedinnertable to a new deal right now, paying him his current '09 salary, but giving him some big bump in 2010, w/the sole purpose of backloading his '09 cap into 2010, as you mention.
and I'm quite sure that's why they do it, although these teams certainly seem fairly clever in working around it.

I think one thing all this cap circumvention comes down to is cash on hand.
it's one thing to try to abuse the cap w/these large bonuses and small salaries, but that has to be paid today w/actual cash --- advantage rich teams, I would think.
although, doesn't the nfl have a debt service teams draw on to pay salaries, if need be?
like going to the bank for a loan, but the nfl acts as a collective in order to ensure finanacial stability and bargain down rates.

 

[SVN]

Panthers 'not aware' of any trade talk with Patriots concerning Peppers