Caldwell or Gaffney - Who would you rather have?

[Deus Irae]

I don't see how you can state that as a fact. The Pats likely would have gone 12-4 with any other warm body at WR instead of Reche.

Please name one game in the regular season where Reche made a game-changing play.

For some reason people seem to think that running a 10-yard pattern, having Brady throw a perfect pass, catching the ball and falling down is some sort of unique skillset that Caldwell possesses but no other NFL WR could possibly ever have replicated for the Patriots last year.

How'd that work out with Gabriel, Bethel, and Hayes?

 

[tombonneau]

How'd that work out with Gabriel, Bethel, and Hayes?

Touche.

I'll amend. I should have said what I say all along about Caldwell:

Any other competent NFL WR would have done the same thing in his shoes.

The guy is David Patten minus the clutch catches. Decent, but nothing special.

 

[Deus Irae]

Touche.

I'll amend. I should have said what I say all along about Caldwell:

Any other competent NFL WR would have done the same thing in his shoes.

The guy is David Patten minus the clutch catches. Decent, but nothing special.

Gabriel and Hayes, Hayes in particular, have been "competent" on other teams. In fact, in the two seasons prior to signing with Boston, Hayes had 66 and 52 catches. Gabriel put up 33 and 37 prior to going to New England, so he hasn't shown to be anything special, but that's certainly "competent".

 

[tombonneau]

I can't recall enough about the Hayes fiasco to know why he busted. But I thought Gabriel looked decent playing, other than that one fumble. I think he got in BB's doghouse for some other reasons and never recovered. But Gabriel is a good example.

If he had been signed instead of Caldwell, with a full TC, he likely would have put up the same numbers as Caldwell last year. Unimpressive, yeoman WR1 by default stats.

I'm not going to hold Gabriel's feet to the fire just bc he wasn't able to hit the ground running and pick up the offense in media res. (That's for you )

 

[Deus Irae]

I can't recall enough about the Hayes fiasco to know why he busted. But I thought Gabriel looked decent playing, other than that one fumble. I think he got in BB's doghouse for some other reasons and never recovered. But Gabriel is a good example.

If he had been signed instead of Caldwell, with a full TC, he likely would have put up the same numbers as Caldwell last year. Unimpressive, yeoman WR1 by default stats.

I'm not going to hold Gabriel's feet to the fire just bc he wasn't able to hit the ground running and pick up the offense in media res. (That's for you )

Well, this pretty much proves the point. BB thought so highly of Gabriel that he cut him midseason.

 

[BAM!]

I don't see how you can state that as a fact. The Pats likely would have gone 12-4 with any other warm body at WR instead of Reche.

Please name one game in the regular season where Reche made a game-changing play.

For some reason people seem to think that running a 10-yard pattern, having Brady throw a perfect pass, catching the ball and falling down is some sort of unique skillset that Caldwell possesses but no other NFL WR could possibly ever have replicated for the Patriots last year.

Your entire argument is based off of the drops Reche had in the playoffs and that Gaffney FINALLY played well on the playoff stage (luckily for him, Reche already proved in the regular season that HE was the go to guy for Brady and the opposing teams focused more on Reche than Gaffney, allowing Gaffney to benefit from Reche's consistency during the regular season. Teams viewed Caldwell as more of a threat than Gaffney, 'nuff said). What happened to Gaffney in that game? He had two 100+ yard games before this one in which Caldwell (4 for 46) had more receiving yards than Gaffney (3 for 37). I could point to this game and say that GAFFNEY CHOKED! Where was he for this game on the biggest of stages?

Now you want to know what game IN THE REGULAR SEASON did Reche make a game changing play? Lets look at the game against the Detroit Lions on 12/3 which the Pats came close to losing (Gaffney was signed on 10/9, so that's 2 months of practices and games already under his belt). Caldwell had 8 receptions for 112 yards while Gaffney had 1 reception for 28 yards. I can point to this game and say Caldwell had a game changing performance this day which led to a Patriots WIN.

How about a question for you, in what PLAYOFF GAME did Gaffney make a game changing play? I know that CALDWELL made a game changing play against SD, IN THE PLAYOFFS.


BTW, Gaffney has NEVER put up the "mediocre numbers" Caldwell put up last season in his ENTIRE CAREER and that is a fact.

 

[Keegs]

5)Do you want me to pick out 2 plays for every starter in the AFCC game who messed up?.i can.

sure, go ahead.

 

[Keegs]

Your entire argument is based off of the drops Reche had in the playoffs and that Gaffney FINALLY played well on the playoff stage (luckily for him, Reche already proved in the regular season that HE was the go to guy for Brady and the opposing teams focused more on Reche than Gaffney, allowing Gaffney to benefit from Reche's consistency during the regular season. Teams viewed Caldwell as more of a threat than Gaffney, 'nuff said). What happened to Gaffney in that game? He had two 100+ yard games before this one in which Caldwell (4 for 46) had more receiving yards than Gaffney (3 for 37). I could point to this game and say that GAFFNEY CHOKED! Where was he for this game on the biggest of stages?

-You are all over the place.
-Gaffney came into his own in the playoffs. 3 straight solid performances prove this. Gaffney didn't have much of a chance to be the "go to guy" for Brady during the regular season. He was signed in October.
-3 receptions for 37 yards and a TD is better than 4 catches for 46 yards and 2 dropped passes (probably both TDs)

Now you want to know what game IN THE REGULAR SEASON did Reche make a game changing play? Lets look at the game against the Detroit Lions on 12/3 which the Pats came close to losing (Gaffney was signed on 10/9, so that's 2 months of practices and games already under his belt). Caldwell had 8 receptions for 112 yards while Gaffney had 1 reception for 28 yards. I can point to this game and say Caldwell had a game changing performance this day which led to a Patriots WIN.

Caldwell had a good game. Great, lets vote him into the hall of fame.
Excellent job picking out a game that GAFFNEY DIDN'T EVEN START IN!:singing:

How about a question for you, in what PLAYOFF GAME did Gaffney make a game changing play? I know that CALDWELL made a game changing play against SD, IN THE PLAYOFFS.

-Gaffney had a game changing play against Indy. Game would have probably been over if he didn't make that ridiculous TD catch to bail out Reche.
-Reche Caught a ball that every receiver in the league should catch. (half of which would have stayed in bounds and scored a td)

BTW, Gaffney has NEVER put up the "mediocre numbers" Caldwell put up last season in his ENTIRE CAREER and that is a fact.

-Not sure what the hell this means...

 

[tombonneau]

Your entire argument is based off of the drops Reche had in the playoffs and that Gaffney FINALLY played well on the playoff stage (luckily for him, Reche already proved in the regular season that HE was the go to guy for Brady and the opposing teams focused more on Reche than Gaffney, allowing Gaffney to benefit from Reche's consistency during the regular season. Teams viewed Caldwell as more of a threat than Gaffney, 'nuff said). What happened to Gaffney in that game? He had two 100+ yard games before this one in which Caldwell (4 for 46) had more receiving yards than Gaffney (3 for 37). I could point to this game and say that GAFFNEY CHOKED! Where was he for this game on the biggest of stages?

Now you want to know what game IN THE REGULAR SEASON did Reche make a game changing play? Lets look at the game against the Detroit Lions on 12/3 which the Pats came close to losing (Gaffney was signed on 10/9, so that's 2 months of practices and games already under his belt). Caldwell had 8 receptions for 112 yards while Gaffney had 1 reception for 28 yards. I can point to this game and say Caldwell had a game changing performance this day which led to a Patriots WIN.

How about a question for you, in what PLAYOFF GAME did Gaffney make a game changing play? I know that CALDWELL made a game changing play against SD, IN THE PLAYOFFS.


BTW, Gaffney has NEVER put up the "mediocre numbers" Caldwell put up last season in his ENTIRE CAREER and that is a fact.

Again, I'm not the president of the gaffney fan club. IMO, he & Caldwell are JAG WRs. Nothing special.

But if my team is going to have jag at WR4/5, I want the guy who hasn't proven to choke when wide open TWICE in the AFCC.

The Pats plenty more high pressure games than any other team. Why on earth you'd want a guy who has shown he can't step up to the plate when given two gift baskets is beyond me.

 

[BAM!]

-You are all over the place. Or you just can't follow along with rational and logical thoughts.

-Gaffney came into his own in the playoffs. 3 straight solid performances prove this. Gaffney didn't have much of a chance to be the "go to guy" for Brady during the regular season. He was signed in October. WEAK! He came into his own because the coverage was more focused on a WR that had actually done something (caldwell). Once Gaffney did do something, teams started to focus on him and he dissappeared. Your next point proves this.

-3 receptions for 37 yards and a TD is better than 4 catches for 46 yards and 2 dropped passes (probably both TDs) Speculation at it's best. Not to mention you just proved my point about Gaffney. BTW, did you know that in week 15 Gaffney dropped a sure TD catch down the sideline. In week 16, Gaffney had a 22 yard reception overturned because he was bobbling it as he stepped out of bounds. In week 18, Gaffney dropped a 41 yard TD. These catches were easier than the one that Caldwell pulled in during the SD game and he dropped them. Being sigined in the beginning of Oct. has absolutely nothing to do with this.

Caldwell had a good game. Great, lets vote him into the hall of fame.
Excellent job picking out a game that GAFFNEY DIDN'T EVEN START IN!:singing: So you concede to the fact that Gaffney isn't even good enough to start against the Lions, good job! :singing:

-Gaffney had a game changing play against Indy. Game would have probably been over if he didn't make that ridiculous TD catch to bail out Reche. First of all this makes no sense what-so-ever and again, speculation. BTW, a "game changing play" is only considered as such if the team actually WINS the game. So that wasn't a game changing play, just a helluva catch. Good try though. Again, pick out a game changing play please.

-Reche Caught a ball that every receiver in the league should catch. (half of which would have stayed in bounds and scored a td) Catching a ball over your shoulder with a defender on your back IS HARDLY a catch every receiver should make. You are so biased AGAINST Caldwell that you can't even give the man his due when he's earned it. Staying in bounds is irrelevant (again you show your bias against Caldwell here), that play is the definition of a game changing play and you know it or you should know it. If you don't then please stop making comments about things you don't understand.

-Not sure what the hell this means... It means that in no time during Gaffney's career did he produce like Caldwell did last year for the Pats. What makes you think that he will be able to put up career numbers with the Pats? This is something that Caldwell has already accomplished. He is proven and Gaffney isn't.

Here is a link to what I posted below: http://www2.sportsnet.ca/football/nfl/players/Jabar_Gaffney/
Here is a scouting report on Gaffney and I will quote what the flaws are against him. "Lacks exceptional size and stopwatch speed. Can get jammed. Doesn't block well. Will drop some easy passes and have concentration lapses.

And for Reche (from the same site): Lacks stopwatch speed and explosiveness. Doesn't get into and out of cuts quickly. Will never be a deep threat. Has concentration lapses. Looked like a smart player in college but hasn't mastered the subtleties as a pro.
Hmm... I don't see anything on Reche's scouting report that talks about him dropping easy passes. Also, Caldwell was a bigger threat downfield last year than Gaffney. Last year Caldwell had 11 catches of 20+ yards and 3 catches of 40+ yards. Gaffney had 2 catches for 20+ yards and 0 catches for 40+ yards.

 

[BAM!]

Again, I'm not the president of the gaffney fan club. IMO, he & Caldwell are JAG WRs. Nothing special.

But if my team is going to have jag at WR4/5, I want the guy who hasn't proven to choke when wide open TWICE in the AFCC.

The Pats plenty more high pressure games than any other team. Why on earth you'd want a guy who has shown he can't step up to the plate when given two gift baskets is beyond me.

I guess you have never had an off or bad day in your life? So because of these two drops we are going to cut the guy after he was the most productive WR for us last year?

Are we crossing our fingers and hoping the Gaffney can do what Reche has already done for the team?

It is extremely short sighted of everyone to want Gaffney over Caldwell because of ONE game that happened to be the AFCCG. A game in which THE DEFENSE let the team down. This wouldn't even be a discussion right now if the D didn't allow the Colts to score the most points on them THE ENTIRE YEAR in ONE HALF of that game.

 

[Keegs]

I guess you have never had an off or bad day in your life? So because of these two drops we are going to cut the guy after he was the most productive WR for us last year?

Are we crossing our fingers and hoping the Gaffney can do what Reche has already done for the team?

It is extremely short sighted of everyone to want Gaffney over Caldwell because of ONE game that happened to be the AFCCG. A game in which THE DEFENSE let the team down. This wouldn't even be a discussion right now if the D didn't allow the Colts to score the most points on them THE ENTIRE YEAR in ONE HALF of that game.

Oh i've had a bad day. The day i had to Watch Reche crap his pants twice.

 

[Keegs]

Again, I'm not the president of the gaffney fan club. IMO, he & Caldwell are JAG WRs. Nothing special.

But if my team is going to have jag at WR4/5, I want the guy who hasn't proven to choke when wide open TWICE in the AFCC.

The Pats plenty more high pressure games than any other team. Why on earth you'd want a guy who has shown he can't step up to the plate when given two gift baskets is beyond me.

I don't get it either.
I agree with you 100%

I have no idea why some of these people would ever want Reche there when he has PROVEN that he chokes under pressure.

 

[BradyManny]

Caldwell had SIXTY ONE (61) receptions last year.

I think he was citing "receptions for first downs", which I believe he's right - 41 of Caldwell's 61 receptions were for 1st downs.

 

[Keegs]

Either you are desperate or not very swift.

First off, you were all over the place. You were swinging back and forth on your first point and then bring up stats from a game without saying what game it was... But apparently everything you say is true and everything i say is "speculation"

You said that once Gaffney did start to do something he disappeared.
When the hell did this happen?
He outplayed Reche in all 3 playoff games and ended the season with 3 catches for 37 yards and an amazing TD catch to bail out Reche. His game was significantly better than Reche's 4 catches for 46 yards, 0 touchdowns and 2 drops while wide open.
-If you honestly, seriously think that Reche's Indy game was superior to Caldwell's then i am done discussing this with you. You are lost and there is no help for you. Just say it and we're done.


you are speculating that Gaffney didn't start against the Lions because he wasn't good enough. who told you that? He didn't have all preseason and regular season to prepare like Reche.
This wasn't your point and don't pretend it was. I ripped apart your comparison between the two by proving that you can't compare the numbers of 2 receivers when one played and entire game and the other barely played.

I'd hate to confuse you even more but a "game changing play" is a play that actually changes the game. I know that's a tricky concept to understand for you but that's what it is. You don't have to win to have it be a game changing play.

EXAMPLE: RECHE CALDWELL DROPPING 2 POSSIBLE TOUCHDOWN PASSES IN THE AFC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME.

both are "game changing plays"

 

[pats1]

I don't get it either.
I agree with you 100%

I have no idea why some of these people would ever want Reche there when he has PROVEN that he chokes under pressure.

So if you say a stupid thing once it can be PROVEN that you are stupid?

 

[BAM!]

I don't get it either.
I agree with you 100%

I have no idea why some of these people would ever want Reche there when he has PROVEN that he chokes under pressure.

I guess the people that want Caldwell over Gaffney want a WR that catches 60% of the balls thrown his way compared to 55%.

He had 1 bad game. If we were to prosecute you (pertaining to your posts on this board) like you are doing with Reche, you would've been off of this board 2,000 or so posts ago.

I'll just smile knowing that I just owned you and this is all you could come back with, no facts just your sh!tty opinion.

 

[Keegs]

So if you say a stupid thing once it can be PROVEN that you are stupid?

[EDIT... I THOUGHT YOU WERE INSULTING ME... IM CHANGING MY RESPONSE.]
no but if you say a stupid thing TWICE, people start to get ideas.

either way this team does not need Reche on the field in a big game when we could have someone else playing receiver.

If Jabar was playing at the end of a big game instead of Reche, i'd feel a lot better.

 

[Keegs]

I guess the people that want Caldwell over Gaffney want a WR that catches 60% of the balls thrown his way compared to 55%.

where did you get these numbers? Are those from another "scouting report"?

He had 1 bad game. If we were to prosecute you (pertaining to your posts on this board) like you are doing with Reche, you would've been off of this board 2,000 or so posts ago.

I don't manipulate data, I don't ignore points, i don't make horrific comparisons and i don't say i've "owned" anyone when i've consistently been butchered in a thread.
You do all these things.

I'll just smile knowing that I just owned you and this is all you could come back with, no facts just your sh!tty opinion.

i've refuted every single thing you've said.
Usually when someone says they "owned" something it's the first sign the've lost.
I could easily create another post after this one and say the same thing. But i won't.

 

[Keegs]

Someone PLEASE explain to me how "Game A" is a better performance than "Game B"......

Game A: 4 catches, 46 yards. 0 Touchdowns. 2 drops while wide open
one of the drops being a TD, the other widely believed to have been a td.

Game B: 3 catches, 37 yards. 1 touchdown. The touchdown catch was an amazing grab made after another receiver on the team dropped an easy ball when wide open.

Please, someone, explain how Game A is a better performance than Game B.

Christ almighty.