Brady vs Mahomes

[1960Pats]

Also, I don't know where folks fall on the Lebron/Jordan argument but I still have Jordan as the GOAT. IMO, Lebron had to at least get to 6 possibly 7 to pass him so I really don't see how Mahomie passes Brady with 5.

LeBrick and Jordan combined have less titles than Russell. Why don't his wins count?

I recently did a basketball comparison between all former HOF players back to 1960 and potential HOFers playing now to see how they did against each other. LeBrick actually graded out at #2 behind Steph Curry for the current era. I broke it down to 4 different eras. The Russell era, the Kareem era, the Jordan era and the LeBrick era. These are the top 30 overall winning % leaders for both regular season and playoffs vs all of the HOFers they faced;

Bill Russell
Sam Jones
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Dennis Rodman
John Havlicek
Scottie Pippen
Bobby Jones
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Tim Duncan
Jamaal Wilkes
Julius Erving
Shaq O'Neal
Dave Cowens
Michael Jordan
Chet Walker
David Robinson
Kobey Bryant
Steph Curry
Bill Bradley
Wilt Chamberlain
Jerry West
Walt Frazier
LeBron James
Cliff Hagan
Bill Walton
Karl Malone
Vlade Divac
Jayson Tatum
Oscar Robertson

 

[Efstratios]

The other thing to consider is his high cap number and KC's cap space ($70K this year) and relatively low numbers next year ($50 million) as well..... per overthecap.com and the ability to back fill a middle class.....

Other factors to consider include:
1): How Mahomes will adjust his game in the event of an injury (which he's hitherto been pretty lucky to avoid given his playstyle).

2): How they'll fair in seasons where they'll be a #2 or #3 seed on the road (since, discounting the Superbowls, every playoff game Mahomes has thus far played has been at home and that luck is unlikely to last for 10+ years). Even Brady and Manning, dominant as they were in the AFC, had seasons where they had to visit other stadiums in January.

3): How KC will adjust post-Reid. Relative to where KC is (in pursuit of ring #3), Andy at 65 is way older than Bill (then 52) was, and his health is a bigger question mark. Almost 100% certain that Mahomes will, at some point, need to win one without him and I don't think Reid's offensive wizardry can be understated.

Mind you, not saying that I think Mahomes has zero shot at GOAThood since he does. As far as I'm concerned, he's already knocking on the door as a Top 10 all-time QB provided that he keeps up this level of play into his mid to late 30s even without winning a third ring. Just pointing out how those who declare him surpassing Tom a forgone conclusion tend to overlook a lot of variables.

 

[Guts]

Other factors to consider include:
1): How Mahomes will adjust his game in the event of an injury (which he's hitherto been pretty lucky to avoid given his playstyle).

2): How they'll fair in seasons where they'll be a #2 or #3 seed on the road (since, discounting the Superbowls, every playoff game Mahomes has thus far played has been at home and that luck is unlikely to last for 10+ years). Even Brady and Manning, dominant as they were in the AFC, had seasons where they had to visit other stadiums in January.

3): How KC will adjust post-Reid. Relative to where KC is (in pursuit of ring #3), Andy at 65 is way older than Bill (then 52) was, and his health is a bigger question mark. Almost 100% certain that Mahomes will, at some point, need to win one without him and I don't think Reid's offensive wizardry can be understated.

Mind you, not saying that I think Mahomes has zero shot at GOAThood since he does. As far as I'm concerned, he's already knocking on the door as a Top 10 all-time QB provided that he keeps up this level of play into his mid to late 30s even without winning a third ring. Just pointing out how those who declare him surpassing Tom a forgone conclusion tend to overlook a lot of variables.

I would also add how he would perform when his #1 weapon is out for the year. Kelce has been extremely durable and consistent.

What will happen when his OL is injured come postseason time?(we saw that in Superbowl 55 got blown out)

There's a lot of things that have to go right that I think he's been fairly lucky so far. He is a top 10 QB all time already imo but to get into the Mt Rushmore a lot more needs to happen

 

[Efstratios]

I would also add how he would perform when his #1 weapon is out for the year. Kelce has been extremely durable and consistent.

What will happen when his OL is injured come postseason time?(we saw that in Superbowl 55 got blown out)

There's a lot of things that have to go right that I think he's been fairly lucky so far. He is a top 10 QB all time already imo but to get into the Mt Rushmore a lot more needs to happen

Completely forgot that Kelce is going to be 34 heading into the playoffs next year, and you're right that injuries, especially to him and the OL, add further variables to the equation.

 

[Guts]

Completely forgot that Kelce is going to be 34 heading into the playoffs next year, and you're right that injuries, especially to him and the OL, add further variables to the equation.

I'd also like to add one more thing: the competition

The Patriots during the dynasty had to go through Manning Colts/Broncos, the great Ravens/Steelers defenses, pesky Chargers, and the occasional good AFC East team.

 

[everlong]

If Mahomes can stay healthy he'll end up 2-3. The best thing I can say about him is that like Brady and Montana the moment is never to big for him and he'll fight to the end without becoming a pick machine when down. If you look at the other big names in the conversation that's not true. Peyton blew some games they never should have lost and as quoted the 9 one and done's. Favre, pick machine. Marino, Young, Brees, Rodgers and others all played down in the big moments more often than they played up.

The three biggest obstacles will be health, he's already been banged up a lot, Reid calling it quits and Kelce declining and retiring. Re-loading a top 20, you can justify where in the top 20 but he's in that list, all time coach and a top 5, ditto on ranking, TE isn't easy.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

While I think Kelce is great, I don’t expect some major production/win efficiency decline when he’s gone. The bigger issue is Mahomes health but I think he’ll maintain for a long time because of his legs/lower body strength.

 

[sb1]

If Mahomes can stay healthy he'll end up 2-3. The best thing I can say about him is that like Brady and Montana the moment is never to big for him and he'll fight to the end without becoming a pick machine when down. If you look at the other big names in the conversation that's not true. Peyton blew some games they never should have lost and as quoted the 9 one and done's. Favre, pick machine. Marino, Young, Brees, Rodgers and others all played down in the big moments more often than they played up.

The three biggest obstacles will be health, he's already been banged up a lot, Reid calling it quits and Kelce declining and retiring. Re-loading a top 20, you can justify where in the top 20 but he's in that list, all time coach and a top 5, ditto on ranking, TE isn't easy.

My laugh was for your sig lol. Never saw that gem before. That's right up there with Borges "on a day when they could have had impact players David Terrell..."

 

[Kdo5]

Lol. So Brady wasn’t accepted as GOAT until he tied Montana in rings… but now the narrative is Kermit doesn’t have to win 7 to be GOAT. Funny how that works.

Kermit will never win anything near 7 anyway so it’s moot.

Super Bowls was the measuring stick for Brady to pass Montana in most people’s eyes. The same should go for Mahomes. I think Mahomes is better than Peyton Manning though. Second best QB of the century thus far and definitely the most talented.

 

[everlong]

My laugh was for your sig lol. Never saw that gem before. That's right up there with Borges "on a day when they could have had impact players David Terrell..."

Whenver I listen to him I'm almost always thinking did we watch the same game? I had forgotten about this quote and stumbled upon the meme and I knew in a second that was my new sig. He tries to come off as this guy who watches the all-22 and knows what he's talking about but the reality is he doesn't have a clue.

 

[everlong]

It's obviously not just SBs. If that was the case Eli would be much higher. But no matter if you want to talk about peak, volume, playoff wins, SB wins, TD:INT ratio, total TDs, total yards............Brady checks the box and if not #1 is pretty close to it.

Also one of my favorite QB stats because it shows the entire game was put on their shoulders is QB record when throwing 50 or more passes.

Brady 19-9
Rodgers 3-6
Manning 3-14
Mahomes 3-2

Then there's the playoffs. Only Fouts, Eli Manning and Kosar have a single win each when throwing 50+ times. Brady has 6 wins.

 

[Guts]

It's obviously not just SBs. If that was the case Eli would be much higher. But no matter if you want to talk about peak, volume, playoff wins, SB wins, TD:INT ratio, total TDs, total yards............Brady checks the box and if not #1 is pretty close to it.

Also one of my favorite QB stats because it shows the entire game was put on their shoulders is QB record when throwing 50 or more passes.

Brady 19-9
Rodgers 3-6
Manning 3-14
Mahomes 3-2

Then there's the playoffs. Only Fouts, Eli Manning and Kosar have a single win each when throwing 50+ times. Brady has 6 wins.

There's another crazy stat that I saw when the defense allows more than 28 Pts Brady the only one above .500 including Mahomes lol

 

[amfootball]

While I think Kelce is great, I don’t expect some major production/win efficiency decline when he’s gone. The bigger issue is Mahomes health but I think he’ll maintain for a long time because of his legs/lower body strength.

I don't either but a lot depends on how KC manages the cap. It will be interesting to see if they cave to Jones. We know Bill would not have paid a guy like him back in the middle of our dynasty. He would draft his replacement.

 

[1960Pats]

Other factors to consider include:
1): How Mahomes will adjust his game in the event of an injury (which he's hitherto been pretty lucky to avoid given his playstyle).

2): How they'll fair in seasons where they'll be a #2 or #3 seed on the road (since, discounting the Superbowls, every playoff game Mahomes has thus far played has been at home and that luck is unlikely to last for 10+ years). Even Brady and Manning, dominant as they were in the AFC, had seasons where they had to visit other stadiums in January.

3): How KC will adjust post-Reid. Relative to where KC is (in pursuit of ring #3), Andy at 65 is way older than Bill (then 52) was, and his health is a bigger question mark. Almost 100% certain that Mahomes will, at some point, need to win one without him and I don't think Reid's offensive wizardry can be understated.

Mind you, not saying that I think Mahomes has zero shot at GOAThood since he does. As far as I'm concerned, he's already knocking on the door as a Top 10 all-time QB provided that he keeps up this level of play into his mid to late 30s even without winning a third ring. Just pointing out how those who declare him surpassing Tom a forgone conclusion tend to overlook a lot of variables.

There are really people who claim that Mahomes passing Brady is a forgone conclusion? Wow!

When I look at it more closely, the closest thing to a forgone conclusion I see is with #1. Mahomes has a slim chance of staying healthy long enough to get close to Brady, let alone pass him.

#2 is another great point. It's amazing how often they've had the top seed. Maybe it has to do with the fact that KC didn't have to play against as many top QBs as Brady needed to.

 

[PATS16N0]

The mere existence of this thread validates this fraudulent, corrupt take. Let’s start with Mahomes vs Favre or something.

Delete this entire eye sore.

 

[Guts]

The mere existence of this thread validates this fraudulent, corrupt take. Let’s start with Mahomes vs Favre or something.

Delete this entire eye sore.

Brady vs Manning then Brady vs Rodgers now Brady vs Mahomes lmao

 

[PATS16N0]

Dude at one point people were saying they would take Andrew Luck over Brady lmao

 

[amfootball]

Brady vs Manning then Brady vs Rodgers now Brady vs Mahomes lmao

It's always going to be Brady vs X forever until someone surpasses 7 rings. Just like Jordan in the NBA. I was actually laughing with a friend when discussing Lebron. I said to him when the next great NBA player comes up, will that player have to surpass Lebron's 4 rings or Michael's 6 to be the GOAT? We both laughed. It is still going to be Michael no matter how much the Lebron lovers cry.

 

[1960Pats]

The mere existence of this thread validates this fraudulent, corrupt take. Let’s start with Mahomes vs Favre or something.

Delete this entire eye sore.

Mahomes would have to throw a hell of a lot of picks to get down to the level of BrINT Favre.

Mahomes vs Montana is a better comparison.

Nobody compares to Brady.

 

[1960Pats]

It's always going to be Brady vs X forever until someone surpasses 7 rings. Just like Jordan in the NBA. I was actually laughing with a friend when discussing Lebron. I said to him when the next great NBA player comes up, will that player have to surpass Lebron's 4 rings or Michael's 6 to be the GOAT? We both laughed. It is still going to be Michael no matter how much the Lebron lovers cry.

As a Russell fan I laugh the same way with friends about either Jordan or LeBron being talked about as the GOAT of the NBA. LeBron isn't even the best in his own era, let alone all time.