Better FA Aquisition - Andre Carter or Brian Waters?

[andrewgarrr]

Not Haynesworth! (I guess he was a trade...)

 

[IcyPatriot]

I say Waters because you can plug in for Carter without suffering to much but if we lose Waters that would be a huge loss. Perhaps with Cannon not so much but he's a kid and who knows. I'll stay with Waters - he protects #1.

 

[Deus Irae]

Without Waters, the Patriots would have been starting Wendel at center and Connolly at right guard. Waters could have been 1/3 as effective as he has been, and he'd still have been the better addition, just because he saved us all from watching the alternative.






Just my $.02

 

[patsfan06]

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but I feel like there is an increasing amount of 'revisionist history' regarding Carter because of the Sunday Night game. As if everyone is hopping on the bandwagon -- and acting as if they were there all along -- without giving any real credit to Anderson, whose placement in the line up is as important as anything in regards to the pass rush.

Over the first 8 games (w/o Anderson as a starter) -- Carter posted 4.5 sacks. Not bad by any means. But Anderson, with only one quarter of the reps, managed to do the same thing. So is that a good thing? Sadly, no. Because when separated, our pass rush was flat out bad. That's not a criticism of either player; it simply takes more than one. So let's call a spade a spade; the pass rush has been lacking. Big time. Same way it was in 2010. Or 2009 (when TBC posted double-digit sack numbers). That's why this D was ranked so low -- even prior to all the injuries.

Yet, what happened when you put both of them together? Even with the worst backfield we've fielded all year, suddenly the D starts making plays. Both players are more effective as a result. I don't think it's a coincidence or a one game thing. Even Wilfork was getting better penetration. So, I don't think you can really separate one from another. It's a pass rushing tandem. If they keep it up that type of pressure, there is simply no way the Patriots will have the NFL's worst pass D. No way. If separated? Yeah, it'll suck; as it did for the first 8 weeks.

That just isn't true. Anyone who watched the games closely could see the impact Carter was making early in the season, even if he wasn't getting the sacks. In fact, PFF (which I know is shotty at best) rated Carter as the #1 run stoping DE in the league through the first 7 weeks or something like that. While he may not have been the best, his impact was clearly felt.

 

[reflexblue]

I voted Waters, hes in on Every offensive play and has solidified the right side of the line.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'll abstain from voting and say both have been equally important.

I'd agree with Deus that w/o Waters Brady would be running for his life 1/2 the time.

On the other hand, without Carter, Cunningham would be getting the snaps and the pass rush, as average as it is now would be far, far worse.

 

[buile]

Carter had tremendous impact in the Jets game. He helped determine the outcome of the game <thumbs up>. Maybe I haven't watched as closely, but many other times, I feel Carter's impact didn't sway the outcome like versus the Jets. Most teams push his speed rush around the back of the pocket. Besides that one incredible bull rush vs the Jets where he almost backed his guy into Sanchez, I haven't noticed in other games.

Waters has been solid. I may not be too knowledgeable, but our line had the opportunity to take a turn for the worse this season. Waters plugged the hole with no hiccup. I loved seeing his good, heads-up play featured on an nfl.com highlight. I don't want to take line-play for granted, so when I see him sealing off his part of the line, great job. A solid line is the foundation of the offense.

I think an edge rusher will be hot and cold; it's the nature of the gamble. But, Waters has been sure and solid.

I vote Waters.

 

[strngplyr]

Waters solidified an already solid line further. Carter gave the D-line life in a way it hasn't seen in awhile, probably haven't had anyone as disruptive since Seymour was traded.

I have to say that Carter is much more of an impact player, and that is not to detract from Waters, he's having an amazing season and is a very solid contributor, but, I personally believe that a DE having a probowl season is a bigger deal than a G having a probowl season.

 

[Lurks_All_Day]

Mark Anderson.

That's not a knock against Carter or Waters. Both are looking Pro Bowl worthy.

But it really isn't a coincidence, IMO, that Carter has his best game upon Anderson making his first start. Anderson was consistently bursting off the line quicker than anyone. As a result, the Jets consistently kept a TE and a RB on Anderson's side. Anderson's initial pressure resulted in, I believe, two of Carter's sacks.

Having a legit pass rush tandem is so important. The Patriots might just have it. If so, look for Carter to continue to make an impact.

This, in ten characters.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I personally believe that a DE having a probowl season is a bigger deal than a G having a probowl season.

I'd agree 99% of the time but when your QB is Brady, keeping him upright is the #1 priority and Waters has (at least statistically) been the best in the league at that.

 

[nabwong]

Carter is playing with a veteran D-line.

Waters
1) Has never played RG
2) Came in without any training camp
3) Has a rookie in Solder on his right (who never plays RT throughout college) for most of season
4) Has a backup center to his left and sometimes the backup-backup center.
5) Is in his mid 30s and playing in a no huddle offense

 

[TheComeback]

The offensive line hasn't performed particularly well this year, so I'm hesitant to crown Waters as some incredible pickup. He's been solid, but not quite as good as some have made him out to be.

Carter on the other hand has changed our defensive line and is probably our best player on D right now (him or Wilfork). If he gets hurt, say goodbye to our pass rush. Opponents will just start chipping Anderson at the line and none of our other backups have shown much in the pass rush department.

 

[RayClay]

Both. Waters turned a hole (cause Connelly had to play center) into a plus. An instant veteran pass rusher and solid vet?

Both.

 

[ALP]

Waters has been doing it since day 1, Carter is coming around halfway through season....

 

[randomk1]

Waters has been doing it since day 1, Carter is coming around halfway through season....

I agree on Waters but i think Carter has been good all year. Even in the preseason he showed his ability. I think the overall problems with the defense have held Carter back from lighting up the stat sheets. Carter is a 3 down player for us and Waters has solidified that line...we really can't afford any of those guys to go down.

 

[andrewgarrr]

Carter is just pummeling and outworking his man. He doesn't have Freeney speed or great moves. He's just a worker. It's awesome.

 

[randomk1]

Carter is just pummeling and outworking his man. He doesn't have Freeney speed or great moves. He's just a worker. It's awesome.

I've liked Carter for some time to be honest. Even on the redskins. To me he is what a true NFL pro should be like.

Redskins- Andre Carter - YouTube

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

But is Waters versitile enough, like with the piano?

Patriots defensive end Andre Carter is as proficient at the piano as he is on the defensive line - The Boston Globe

 

[eric5280]

I'd have to go with Carter. Waters is probably the better player and can even be argued he's having a better year than Carter but Carter addressed a bigger need for the Patriots. I believe the offensive line would still be pretty good without Waters whereas I have no idea how the Pats D would ever get pressure on the QB without Carter.

 

[eric5280]

Carter is just pummeling and outworking his man. He doesn't have Freeney speed or great moves. He's just a worker. It's awesome.

He reminds me of an older version of 2010 Cameron Wake. Just has that motor to keep going