Best players in his NFL position survey

[SunnyDenmark]

Dude I remember the thread. Where I compared Culpepper to Brady and broke down statistically why Culpepper was declining to nothing more than a mediocre QB. Of course Dolphin trolls jumped right in and took the bait, saying how great Culpepper was and how much better than Brady he was going to be with the Phins. I think they are still wiping the pie from their face, they just refuse to admit to being wrong about Culpepper. Optimism blooms eternal in a land of losers. Hey Aqua, you wanna bet that Culpepper wins the MVP this season? What do you think his chances are of throwing for over 4,000 yards?

Sounds about how I remember it as well. I further remember the Fishheads saying that Bradys' greatness was only the result of Belichicks' system and Bradys' supporting teammates. (WTF?) Sure, like future hall of famers: David Patten, Antwain Smith, Christian Fauria, etc. Thats some of the people he had to throw to / run the ball. Sounds like sour grapes to me (fins fans).

Sure there is something to be said about supporting your team , but being a loyal fan doesn't require making idiotic statements.

 

[Peytonsbetter]

Last Year Manning had as usual Harrison and Wayne all year - 2 of the best WR tandem in the NFL

Brady has Gaffney a castoff and unwanted 3rd type WR Reche Caldwell to start and got to the same championship conference game as Indy and you say Manning is Better?

And Joe Montana had John Taylor and Jerry Rice.

A great quarterback is a great quarterback, regardless of who plays with him.

Oh and, Peytonsbetter.

 

[Peytonsbetter]

He had statistically the worst postseason of any Superbowl-winning QB in history, and absolutely everything had to break right for him to do even that.

He made every play he had to make. And every Super Bowl winner has to have a number of breaks go their way.

I'm not even talking about just the horrid calls or the pneumonia.

Pneumonia? Being a bit dramatic, aren't we?

I'm talking about Ray Lewis tipping away two sure interceptions,

Again, you have to get lucky to win the Super-Bowl.

the worst playoff gameplan I've ever seen (KC),

KC's gameplan was solid. In the regular season, Larry Johnson would've KILLED us. I mean, our run d was HISTORICALLY bad. KC's mistake was not having a BACKUP gameplan.

Rex Grossman somehow "leading" a team to the Superbowl where he proceeded to crap the bed, as we all knew he would...everything broke his way. It was amazing to see.

Grossman crapped the bed, thats for sure, but I'm not sure enough is being made of Peyton's effect on the opposing teams. Every team we played GAMEPLANNED to stop Peyton, figuring that if they took away the deep ball, Peyton would get impatient like he has in years past. Well, he didn't. He took what the defense gave him and fed the running backs. IMO, thats why his numbers were down. Another reason was the fact that the Colt's played the 1st, 5th, 6th, and 16th rated defenses in Balt/Chi/NE/KC. NO quarterback is going to put up great numbers against those teams.

I believe that Peyton had a GREAT postseason. He made every play he HAD to make. Something that only the great ones do.

Although I think Peytonsbetter, I think Manning/Brady are 1/1a when it comes to NFL qb's. I also believe there is a STEEP dropoff to the next level. Colts and Pats fans are extremely lucky to have them, thats for sure.

 

[Fixit]

My bad on the "pneumonia." I meant to say flu.

If you're being honest, didn't you notice an inordinate number of things (blatant BS calls or non-calls at crucial times, defenses tipping picks away from their teammates, TWO coaches who had nothing in their bag other than "run up the middle where eight guys are", a defense that's cramping up on the sidelines, etc.) that broke for the Colts?

Replace the Colts with any other team and it would still be incredible to witness.

Anyway, the only point I made that you actually seem to disagree on is what constitutes a great postseason. The argument can always be made that any Superbowl-winning QB made every play he had to make; that's fairly simple to do. That doesn't mean that he was great.

 

[ClevTrev]

Since this seems to have digressed to a Manning vs. Brady thread, I find some of the comments fascinating.

Now, up until last season, I respected Manning but felt Brady was the "more effective" of the two. Yeah, Manning has always had the numbers, but the numbers don't always equate to wins. Wins are the key and the only true statistic.

But c'mon! After the seasons Manning and Brady had in 2006, I have to give Paymetons his props. The guy is great. It doesn't matter whether he "struggled in post season." We'd all have been happy to see Brady struggle the same way.

Bottom line: the guy is one of the top two QBs in the game today, and won it all last season. So, based on my own evaluation method, Manning is number 1 currently. And throw out all the discussion about who has a stable set of receivers, etc. It's all speculation. The only thing that's not speculation are the results.

These guys are so close and so competitive, however, that I have every expectation that Brady will reverse that in the coming season. Like a few other superstars in various sports who've had a competitive doppelganger, Brady's greatness wouldn't be clear or complete without Manning and vice versa. They each represent a benchmark that pushes the other to higher levels. It's a great time to be a Pats fan!

 

[Peytonsbetter]

My bad on the "pneumonia." I meant to say flu.

If you're being honest, didn't you notice an inordinate number of things (blatant BS calls or non-calls at crucial times, defenses tipping picks away from their teammates, TWO coaches who had nothing in their bag other than "run up the middle where eight guys are", a defense that's cramping up on the sidelines, etc.) that broke for the Colts?

Replace the Colts with any other team and it would still be incredible to witness.

Anyway, the only point I made that you actually seem to disagree on is what constitutes a great postseason. The argument can always be made that any Superbowl-winning QB made every play he had to make; that's fairly simple to do. That doesn't mean that he was great.

I'm not saying that Peyton was GREAT during the playoffs, overall, he wasn't. BUT, he was when he HAD TO BE. The final possession against Baltimore, when he threaded the needle to Dallas Clark on 3rd down. The ENTIRE 2nd half against the Pats. Against the Bears, when he was down by 7 just moments into the game.

This is praise usually only given to Brady, that he rises up at the critical moment, he makes the play when it HAS to be made. And it's praise that Brady deserves. However, Peyton played that role last year, doing WHATEVER it took to win.

THATS why I think Peyton has surpassed Tom as the best quarterback in the game. JMO.

 

[Peytonsbetter]

My bad on the "pneumonia." I meant to say flu.

If you're being honest, didn't you notice an inordinate number of things (blatant BS calls or non-calls at crucial times, defenses tipping picks away from their teammates, TWO coaches who had nothing in their bag other than "run up the middle where eight guys are", a defense that's cramping up on the sidelines, etc.) that broke for the Colts?

Replace the Colts with any other team and it would still be incredible to witness.

Anyway, the only point I made that you actually seem to disagree on is what constitutes a great postseason. The argument can always be made that any Superbowl-winning QB made every play he had to make; that's fairly simple to do. That doesn't mean that he was great.

Btw, it seems to me like the pats were the beneficiaries of one of the most incredible plays in recent memory last year, that being Marlon Mcree's brainfart in the Charger game. Without that amazing stroke of good luck, the pats don't even MAKE the afccg.

So, it's not like the Colt's were the only team that got lucky last year.

 

[atlpatsfan]

gore will not be better than LT. LT has much better hands and hes a better overall player
top 3 in order
QB -
Brady
Manning
Palmer

I pretty much agree with your whole list but I think Brees should in in this list instead of Palmer.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

I skipped most of the thread but I just needed to chime in that even as a Pats fan I have a hard time picking Brady over Manning right now.

Right now Manning is on top. His team just won a championship and he got the monkey off his back. He is second to no one at this moment.

a few years ago Brady was coming off of back-to-back titles and was second to no one.

They'll have their ups and downs but I'd take either Brady or Manning and never complain. they're both already in the hall of fame. I no longer see any reason to try to figure out who is better, and I no longer see it as an insult to Tom Brady that some people consider Manning the better QB.

Ok, I reserve the right to call Manning a funny looking whore, but he's one hell of a quarterback.

 

[Fixit]

Btw, it seems to me like the pats were the beneficiaries of one of the most incredible plays in recent memory last year, that being Marlon Mcree's brainfart in the Charger game. Without that amazing stroke of good luck, the pats don't even MAKE the afccg.

So, it's not like the Colt's were the only team that got lucky last year.

Yeah, it was a lucky play, no doubt. I'll admit to it, but it was only one play (albeit a huge one), not the parade of happy coinkidinks we saw with Indy. Not to mention, it took a massive effort from Troy Brown to make that play for his team; it didn't just happen.

My only point is that Manning was not great in the playoffs. If Baltimore had beaten them, and with a competent coach they would have, Manning would have gone down as being downright awful for the lion's share of two playoff games.

He won. He wasn't great in doing it. The two can co-exist.

 

[Peytonsbetter]

Yeah, it was a lucky play, no doubt. I'll admit to it, but it was only one play (albeit a huge one), not the parade of happy coinkidinks we saw with Indy. Not to mention, it took a massive effort from Troy Brown to make that play for his team; it didn't just happen.

My only point is that Manning was not great in the playoffs. If Baltimore had beaten them, and with a competent coach they would have, Manning would have gone down as being downright awful for the lion's share of two playoff games.

He won. He wasn't great in doing it. The two can co-exist.

Fair enough, I can respect your opinion. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Actually, it would be weird if we DID agree, wouldn't it?

 

[Fixit]

Fair enough, I can respect your opinion. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Actually, it would be weird if we DID agree, wouldn't it?

Oh, it's all good.