Bench Newton!

[sb1]

And the opposite is also true, there is NO FEAR from the rest of the posters that Stidham maybe does suck over a much wider and diverse sample size because then at least the team knows GOING INTO THE OFFSEASON whether the team has to use a significant amount of cap room for TWO QBs or just one, with the backup on a continuing rookie deal (Stidham).

Further these are the same posters that are advocating for significant cap room to be used on star WRs and TEs next year too.

The team has A LOT of cap room next year, but if you need TWO QBs that will eliminate either the ability to bring back some of the existing FAs on the team OR getting that talent at the skill positions. Was it Queen that said they want it all, and they want it now?

That's the funny part - they don't want to know about what they might have in-house with an actual large data sample instead they just want to complain more about how much BB cant evaluate talent by having him go out and EVALUATE MORE TALENT!

Moot now. Stid is not starting, Bill confirmed it.

Works for me. I doubt the team will break the bank looking at a bridge QB and a 2020 high pick draftee. Hoyer as QB3. Stid is on the outside looking in unless they go with 4 on the roster. Seems straightforward to me.

 

[Turkamu]

already said in another thread, Cam has 11 rushing TD, the rest of the team has 8 combined. Cam is at 451 yards is the second highest rusher on the team and will break 500 yards. Cam’s long of 38 is just three yards shy of Harris longest rush this season.

Great, have him play RB then. His legs only work anyway when it's a designed run. On the plays where he has to scramble, he looks about as fast as Brady.

 

[masterbouncer]

Stidham completed top passes that game and one was to a wide open Gunner who got yards after the catch. All in a game where Cam got to rushing TD’s and a passing TD in a blow out in garbage time, when the game was decided.

I already said in another thread, Cam has 11 rushing TD, the rest of the team has 8 combined. Cam is at 451 yards is the second highest rusher on the team and will break 500 yards. Cam’s long of 38 is just three yards shy of Harris longest rush this season. Pretty much everyone who has analyzed the run game this season has said Cam has been calling coverages for the run and his hand offs have been having teams play passive out of fear that he will keep it.

So swapping Stidham for Cam is going to significantly take away an asset from the only good part of our offense. Stidham simply is not going to fill that hole.

You also would be taking away a veteran leader who by all accounts has the locker room.

The trade off should be better than what you are removing.

The fact is Stidham has not shown that he is a better passer than Cam. Let along superior enough to justify the hit to the run game and disrupt the locker room. Especially if Bill’s goal is to win every game he can.

Nobody is afraid of anything. The fact is that hundreds of back ups have gone through this league and never done more or enough to get a shot at starting. Stidham so far has not. He does not deserve a chance to show that his play and the coaches evaluation is not showing the real picture. It’s wishful thinking because he’s on the team. The truth of the latter is that Stidham is more likely than not never going to be a starter and the coaches don’t see a point in wasting time on a never was and would rather stick with a had been that at leads adds something to the morale and run game

If you subscribe to the notion that Bill is going to try to win every game and as long as we aren’t completely mathematically eliminated that there is something to play for, then starting Stidham has very little upside.

great to be one-dimensional with Cam as your additional RB, if he would be capable of passing anywhere close to a NFL QB it would add value, so its basically stack the box and you will win against this patriots team, because their QB is non existing in the passing game

its quite a shame that your starting QB has more rushing TDs than passing TDs, he is basically a RB not a QB

 

[sb1]

Stidham's QBR over his two seasons: 14.4. That ranks 70th out of 74 passers with 10+ attempts. That's all the starters, backups, 3rd+ stringers and non QB's in the league - only 3 have worse QBR than Stid.

Yeah I'll pass on seeing this guy start. Anyway Bill says there are no plans to do that so it's moot now.

 

[lancerman]

Great, have him play RB then. His legs only work anyway when it's a designed run. On the plays where he has to scramble, he looks about as fast as Brady.

It doesn’t work like that. He wouldn’t be calling coverage at the line for the RB’s, he wouldn’t be taking snaps and making defenses second guess handoffs.

And again you don’t have any evidence of Stidham being a better passer. Do you are asking for everyone to be okay removing a big component of our best attack on offense and a leader the players respect for..... a wishful hope that everyone is wrong about a guy?

Stidham had opportunities to force the issue and show he should be out there. He sucked in every showcase until he was asked to throw three passes in a game that our current QB showed he was more than capable in leading a blowout against (where he contributed 3 TD’s). If Stidham was looking half decent the calls for him to be out there would be overwhelming. It’s not. He’s looked awful most of the time. He hasn’t shown Cam’s upside and has as bad of not worse of a downside and his biggest supporters are repeating a 3 pass attempt performance where he completed 2 in a game our current QB led a blowout.

So again..... it comes down to take away good things fron the run, take away the player that has leadership qualities and respect in the locker room, ignore how he’s been mostly bad and hasn’t made a case for himself over the current starter, ignore Bill Belichick’s own assessment of him over two years.... for wishful thinking.

 

[lancerman]

great to be one-dimensional with Cam as your additional RB, if he would be capable of passing anywhere close to a NFL QB it would add value, so its basically stack the box and you will win against this patriots team, because their QB is non existing in the passing game

its quite a shame that your starting QB has more rushing TDs than passing TDs, he is basically a RB not a QB

That’s great. Stidham still hasn’t shown even the smallest inkling that he’s better. Until he came out in a blowout that Cam led the team when they got it and contributed 3 TD’s he has been dreadful. Ranging from bad enough that Bill needed to pull him vs the Jets to avoid ruining a lead to being a small step above Hoyer in being unable to capitalize on the best defensive performance we had all year (to the point where nearly this entire board said we would have won with Cam).

If it were Cam vs Jimmy G I’d say you have a point. However there’s 3 games left, no new QB is walking through the door. So it’s either Newton, Stidham or Hoyer. One of them accounts for more than half of the teams running production and has been the only one to show any deep ball ability and able to lead a decent drive albeit infrequently and is a vet who has the support of players and coaches, the other is a 2nd year QB who we know won’t run as well, who we have seen suck it up in the passing game as bad of not worse than Cam who the coaches don’t believe in, and the other is a guy who has failed everywhere he went.

Sometimes you only have bad options but it’s clear one is better than the other. That’s where we are right now. Bad options and one is better than the others so we are stuck enduring it.

 

[Turkamu]

unable to capitalize on the best defensive performance we had all year (to the point where nearly this entire board said we would have won with Cam).

You realize that for the majority of the game Hoyer was playing and Stidham came in when the damage was already done?
And for all the **** people give Welker for the drop in the Superbowl, it's amazing that the pick 6 that literally hit Edelman in both hands, is somehow Stidhams fault.

As for "would have won with Cam" part, that was when people thought he was an actual NFL QB because he threw for some yards against Seattle, a team everyone beats up on in the air, during desparation time.

My guess is, Bill isn't playing Stidham BECAUSE everyone is calling for it. Old men get stubborn and the older they get, the worse it gets. Just like with Butler in the Superbowl.

 

[lancerman]

You realize that for the majority of the game Hoyer was playing and Stidham came in when the damage was already done?
And for all the **** people give Welker for the drop in the Superbowl, it's amazing that the pick 6 that literally hit Edelman in both hands, is somehow Stidhams fault.

As for "would have won with Cam" part, that was when people thought he was an actual NFL QB because he threw for some yards against Seattle, a team everyone beats up on in the air, during desparation time.

My guess is, Bill isn't playing Stidham BECAUSE everyone is calling for it. Old men get stubborn and the older they get, the worse it gets. Just like with Butler in the Superbowl.

Yes Bill is just trying to stick it to fans

 

[sb1]

You realize that for the majority of the game Hoyer was playing and Stidham came in when the damage was already done?
And for all the **** people give Welker for the drop in the Superbowl, it's amazing that the pick 6 that literally hit Edelman in both hands, is somehow Stidhams fault.

As for "would have won with Cam" part, that was when people thought he was an actual NFL QB because he threw for some yards against Seattle, a team everyone beats up on in the air, during desparation time.

My guess is, Bill isn't playing Stidham BECAUSE everyone is calling for it. Old men get stubborn and the older they get, the worse it gets. Just like with Butler in the Superbowl.

You’re really comparing Bill benching a Super Bowl hero and a difference maker with keeping a backup QB on the bench? Lol

 

[masterbouncer]

That’s great. Stidham still hasn’t shown even the smallest inkling that he’s better. Until he came out in a blowout that Cam led the team when they got it and contributed 3 TD’s he has been dreadful. Ranging from bad enough that Bill needed to pull him vs the Jets to avoid ruining a lead to being a small step above Hoyer in being unable to capitalize on the best defensive performance we had all year (to the point where nearly this entire board said we would have won with Cam).

If it were Cam vs Jimmy G I’d say you have a point. However there’s 3 games left, no new QB is walking through the door. So it’s either Newton, Stidham or Hoyer. One of them accounts for more than half of the teams running production and has been the only one to show any deep ball ability and able to lead a decent drive albeit infrequently and is a vet who has the support of players and coaches, the other is a 2nd year QB who we know won’t run as well, who we have seen suck it up in the passing game as bad of not worse than Cam who the coaches don’t believe in, and the other is a guy who has failed everywhere he went.

Sometimes you only have bad options but it’s clear one is better than the other. That’s where we are right now. Bad options and one is better than the others so we are stuck enduring it.

you are right, Cam is a better RB than most of other QB in the league, but unfortunatelly in a pass heavy league you win with a RB at QB only if you pull out a lead from the beginning and can pound all day long because the D can't stop a nose bleeding, if they stack the box and can beat you through air, than you are lost with a QB that can't throw to save his life

you are judging Stidham based on a very small sample size (actually few snaps), while pretending Cam has shown anything worth thinking that he should be still out there, judge Stidham when he got a full game or two and he blows like Cam with 100 yards 0 TD and 2 INT constantly each game, than we know for sure he is **** and can dump him

its mind blowing how people do not have sence that a second year QB has not to be on a Brady level to be even considered to get a chance to show something or improve, because actually a 2nd year QB can improve, a 10 year wet with still poor mechanics, no pocket awareness or even being able to read the D# or go through the progression beside only having first read and being done, will not improve anymore, he is what he is,...but yeah he is a good QB, when he is not fumbling the ball he can run for a TD, because Harris, Michel, White, Burkhead etc would not have been able to do so with a propper and not obvious play design (so actually the opposite of what McShitty calls half a game)

I am asking to give Stidham the last 1-2 games (as soon as we are officially out of the playoffs there is no reason to not start him in my view) so you can really judge on him, not based on 10 snaps total in few minutes spread over 4 games and pretending he can't win or whatever, not saying Stidham is the saviour but at least I want to see him given a chance in full game, I would not even say its hope its more curiosity to see where he actually is in a full game


frankly I am less pissed off when a 2nd year QB makes bad decisions than when a 10 year vet does the same with all his starting experience in the league, its so frustrating to watch him out there that you lose all the joy to watch a game because he is so pathetic

 

[captain stone]

There could be no other reason for Belichick starting Cam.

That, and - as another poster suggested - Bill & Cant have an understanding that because our down-field pass-catching options were "limited", he will start him at least until they have been officially eliminated, as a courtesy...I wouldn't be shocked however, unless we are by some miracle still alive before Week 17, to see Stid start vs the Lawrences.

 

[captain stone]

plan b left with jimmy g.

And Jacoby Brissett was probably never a viable Plan C...

 

[captain stone]

No thanks seen enough of Stid. Not an NFL QB.

Can we at least start him vs the Wannabe Lawrences?

 

[Toofy]

It's extremely disingenuous to compare JGs game against the Chiefs and Stidhams game against the Rams and act as if they are even remotely compareable. JG was playing with a roster that literally went on to win the superbowl, threw to Edelman, Lafell and Gronk against a Chiefs defense that wasn't exactly stacked.
Stidham on the other hand was playing with Gunner, Meyers and Harry, 3 guys that wouldn't make the majority of NFL rosters. And he was playing against the Nr1 D in football right now with Aaron Donald having another DPOY season and our OL completely ****ting the bed.
So i would say the fact that he was able to complete 5 of 7 passes and the one to Asiasi should've been a DPI, was impressive since he had basically no time whatsoever.

This.. stidham had to throw in less than 2 seconds to no name receivers against the best pass defense....

I thought he looked great in last game...

 

[sb1]

Can we at least start him vs the Wannabe Lawrences?

I still think if eliminated they should put as many in the game as possible that can help tank the last game and screw the Jets out of the top pick. Lol

 

[lancerman]

you are right, Cam is a better RB than most of other QB in the league, but unfortunatelly in a pass heavy league you win with a RB at QB only if you pull out a lead from the beginning and can pound all day long because the D can't stop a nose bleeding, if they stack the box and can beat you through air, than you are lost with a QB that can't throw to save his life

you are judging Stidham based on a very small sample size (actually few snaps), while pretending Cam has shown anything worth thinking that he should be still out there, judge Stidham when he got a full game or two and he blows like Cam with 100 yards 0 TD and 2 INT constantly each game, than we know for sure he is **** and can dump him

its mind blowing how people do not have sence that a second year QB has not to be on a Brady level to be even considered to get a chance to show something or improve, because actually a 2nd year QB can improve, a 10 year wet with still poor mechanics, no pocket awareness or even being able to read the D# or go through the progression beside only having first read and being done, will not improve anymore, he is what he is,...but yeah he is a good QB, when he is not fumbling the ball he can run for a TD, because Harris, Michel, White, Burkhead etc would not have been able to do so with a propper and not obvious play design (so actually the opposite of what McShitty calls half a game)

I am asking to give Stidham the last 1-2 games (as soon as we are officially out of the playoffs there is no reason to not start him in my view) so you can really judge on him, not based on 10 snaps total in few minutes spread over 4 games and pretending he can't win or whatever, not saying Stidham is the saviour but at least I want to see him given a chance in full game, I would not even say its hope its more curiosity to see where he actually is in a full game


frankly I am less pissed off when a 2nd year QB makes bad decisions than when a 10 year vet does the same with all his starting experience in the league, its so frustrating to watch him out there that you lose all the joy to watch a game because he is so pathetic

Yes Newton is better as a rusher than a passer. That’s always been the case. Unfortunately he has more rushing TD’s than all our running backs combined. He has the second most rushing yards on the team. You aren’t going to simply fill that gap by assuming the other RB’s will double production. It’s just not happening. So Stidham has to be a much better passer than Cam to justify a change because you lose so much in the only good part of the offense..... and Stidham has not shown to be a better passer than Cam.

Yes Stidham is being judged on a small sample size.... if you are comparing him to a starting QB. He’s gotten as many or more showcases as any back up on this team in the last 20 years. It’s his job to be ready to get the call at a moments notice. The fact that most of the time it’s been a disaster is still an indictment on him. Especially when he is usually in low pressure situations (don’t screw up against the Jets, it’s the 4th quarter vs the Chiefs see what you can do, we have no shot against the Niner’s and Rams go out there and take a few live reps, we are way ahead on the Chargers) all but one of those has been mediocre or bad and Cam did well in that one game anyways.

Back ups are supposed to covet and make the most of the few shots they get. See Brady. See Jimmy G. Stidham’s case is “ignore the shots he got he needs to get a real starting role to be truly understood”. What? When the hell has that ever been the case in the NFL where a guy was mediocre on the field and the coaches didn’t want to play him and the story was “well no he needs the starting role so we can know for sure”. It’s not how this league works. You don’t suck in your limited chances and then get that dismissed to get an audition. When you’re a back up, that is your audition. Especially when doing that is to hurt the best aspect of our offense and take a team leader who has far more experience off the field (even if he isn’t performing great).

The we need to judge him when he starts is more “it’s inconvenient that the back up can’t improve on our starter who we aren’t satisfied with so I’m going to ignore what we’ve seen and what the coaches are determining under the hope that all the signs are wrong”. And this whole “he’s a 2nd year QB”, second and first year QB’s usually can flash positives. Especially when a defense didn’t game plan for them. If they aren’t, it means the game is too fast for them or they aren’t processing reads effectively. Brady was at his most raw in 2001 but he had huge pocket presence over Bledsoe and more poise. Jimmy G in year 1 and year 2 looked good every time he hit the field. Leave the Patriots. Hurts looked like an improvement over Wentz and won the job right away. Meanwhile Saints fans knew Hill wasn’t worth much in his few games appearances and wouldn’t have chose to start him if it wasn’t for an injury. They knew that from limited opportunities from before.

At this point, regardless QB is need. If Stidham did start and defied all odds and balled out (and one of those games vs the Jets so take that with a grain of salt), then we still should draft a QB high. You aren’t going to team build valuing two starts over everything else. And that’s a highly unlikely scenario anyways.

So at this point, Stidham’s reality is that he is not the guy, he is a rookie so his third year will be defining as he competes with new guys to justify being around. And next year he is going to need to show a serious improvement or his career will likely end right there.

This idea that he needs to start or that he will prove to be some revelation that will mean something is kinda silly.

It’s the same thing it was over the summer to be honest with you. Based off nothing a lot of people were assuming (hoping) Stidham was good. Convenient hope because he wears the uniform. Stidham was always a low percentage chance at succeeding anyways and the fact that despite everything everyone is saying about Cam, Stidham couldn’t clearly present himself as a superior option and doesn’t have the entire region screaming for him (this situation is built for it if he was any good) is a huge tell. This moment was set for him and he couldn’t grab the brass ring.

All the QB’s on this team should be written off and we should revamp the entire position and not look back. One of them will stay because Bill likes some continuity. But the QB of the future isn’t here and I’d rather have some positive on offense and players happy about who’s leading them than pray everyone is wrong about Stidham

 

[Ollie]

I think neither are the answer for very different reasons. Cams mechanics are awful. He makes better decisions than Stid but can't get the ball there accurately. He has decent leadership and legs. Stid throws the ball well but makes poor decisions. Both are incredibly frustrating to watch but both are also having to cope with a very weak set of receivers and virtually no tight end. I think many decent qbs would struggle in our team right now let alone our qbs with their obvious limitations

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Yes Newton is better as a rusher than a passer. That’s always been the case. Unfortunately he has more rushing TD’s than all our running backs combined. He has the second most rushing yards on the team. You aren’t going to simply fill that gap by assuming the other RB’s will double production. It’s just not happening. So Stidham has to be a much better passer than Cam to justify a change because you lose so much in the only good part of the offense..... and Stidham has not shown to be a better passer than Cam.

He has more rushing TD than our running back not because our running back can’t play but because we always call plays for him in the RZ. 10 of his 11 TDs have come at or inside the 5 and like 6 were at the 1. You tell me than Our running wouldn’t score if we are calling plays for them in those spot?

If we had a QB than can throw the ball at least physically you convert a part of his 11 TDS with pass and the other with running back. Cam has 16 total TD in 12 games. A QB that can throw the ball could have 16+ total TD in 12 games. Even Brady at 43 has 3 rushing TD.

I can argue that a QB that can throw the ball will benefit the Offense more than Cam running ability. Because now everyone is focus on stopping the run because we only have that. If you can throw the ball it will automatically open up the run game. I am not saying that Stidham will throw 350 3 TD 0 picks everygame but I think he can throw for more than 100-150 yards per game which is basically the Cam production (100 yards passing, 0-50 running). And Stidham can scramble so he can pickup 10-20 yards running per game at least on scramble.

 

[sb1]

The enthusiasm some have for a 4th round draft pick QB who will very likely be out of the league in a couple of years. Lol.

Cam will start these last 3 games. I want to see a strong finish and Bill to see if he's worth keeping as our bridge for another year. Or if the Pats should sign another bridge QB and try to move up to take a top QB prospect who will be the next great Patriots QB.

Getting back to the playoffs might not happen in one offseason, I think it might take two. We'll see.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

I want to see a strong finish and if he's worth keeping as our bridge for another year

We have 12 games of evidence that show than Cam Newton isn’t even worth playing on any team next year but you need 3 more games to see it.

And you criticize everybody who want to see a 4th round pick throw more than 33 passes.

33 passes is enough for you to judge a rookie but 12 games isn’t to evaluate Cam worth. You are completely lacking any credibility.