Belichick's skill position moves since 2018

[h0c2000]

When I first saw him as a rookie with Philly I was very impressed. What happened to him?

He must have a pigskin allergy.

 

[Triumph]

Except for 'Mondre, I think we are overrating the 2022 talent on offense.

The TEs cant produce without the ball.

Henry was open for a TD vs the Bills but was ignored for a safer short sideline throw. This is the best TE tandem since Gronk and Hernandez.

The WR corp is good enough.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The TEs cant produce without the ball.

Henry was open for a TD vs the Bills but was ignored for a safer short sideline throw.

Who's fault is that? Mac? Ultra conservative play calling? Line play?

This is the best TE tandem since Gronk and Hernandez.

LOL. Smith is a bad fit and Patrica has no idea what he is doing with TEs. Combined have 47 catches and 2 TDs.

The WR corp is good enough.

Good enough for what?

 

[TheRainMaker]

The TEs cant produce without the ball.

Henry goes from a career year to this. Smith is overrated, but is horribly utilized like he's a scat back RB. LB's and S's have the night off covering these guys.

This is the best TE tandem since Gronk and Hernandez.

Gronk and Bennett/Gronk and Allen were better than Henry and Smith.

The WR corp is good enough.

Don't know where they rank this year, but I'd imagine they are among the worst at separating from defenders as they've been since 2019. 99% of the time they catch the ball - they are tackled. I'd assume DB's feel they have the night off covering these guys.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Henry goes from a career year to this. Smith is overrated, but is horribly utilized like he's a scat back RB. LB's and S's have the night off covering these guys.

Gronk and Bennett/Gronk and Allen were better than Henry and Smith.

Don't know where they rank this year, but I'd imagine they are among the worst at separating from defenders as they've been since 2019. 99% of the time they catch the ball - they are tackled. I'd assume DB's feel they have the night off covering these guys.

are the WR's properly coached? If this stat is true, how is it possible to have the second highest league wide investment in the WR position and a trash production?

 

[Boomer B]

are the WR's properly coached? If this stat is true, how is it possible to have the second highest league wide investment in the WR position and a trash production?

Because we haven’t been able to draft well at the position we had to massively overspend in free agency for mediocre WRs.

 

[upstater1]

are the WR's properly coached? If this stat is true, how is it possible to have the second highest league wide investment in the WR position and a trash production?

It's quite easy.

Big contracts signed by players on other teams push out future payments / signing bonuses.

The Patriots on the other hand took over D Parker's Miami contract so they don't owe him a signing bonus. There is no dead cap hit to releasing him. Algholor is in the 2nd year of his contract, and again, no dead cap hit. Meyers is obviously on his UDFA contract so he's still cheap. Bourne is on a very cheap contract as well.

In other words, the Patriots are paying a lot of salary THIS YEAR, but they are not anywhere near the top when it comes to "league wide investment" as you put it. They are probably at the bottom.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

It's quite easy.

Big contracts signed by players on other teams push out future payments / signing bonuses.

The Patriots on the other hand took over D Parker's Miami contract so they don't owe him a signing bonus. There is no dead cap hit to releasing him. Algholor is in the 2nd year of his contract, and again, no dead cap hit. Meyers is obviously on his UDFA contract so he's still cheap. Bourne is on a very cheap contract as well.

agholor gladly is an UFA as well.

In other words, the Patriots are paying a lot of salary THIS YEAR, but they are not anywhere near the top when it comes to "league wide investment" as you put it. They are probably at the bottom.

this was related to payments for this year where they are near the top of the league, for TE as well.

 

[upstater1]

Because we haven’t been able to draft well at the position we had to massively overspend in free agency for mediocre WRs.

Bourne was not an overspend. You're talking about one guy, Algholor, who is signed to a 2 year contract that ends this year. The question: would previous production have warranted the same contract if he'd been signed by another team? Compare his money to the WRs who were recently signed in spring of 2022:

Allen Robinson 15.5m per for 3 years (33 catches, 300 yards)
DJ Chark 10m per (14 catches, 200 yards)
Michael Gallup 13m per for 5 years (28 catches, 300 yards)
Russell Gage 10m per for 3 years (29 catches, 200 yards)
Nelson Agholor 11m per for 2 years (25 catches, 300 yards)

All of these guys signed for between 10-15.5m per year, and all of them have roughly the SAME production.
This tells me that this is now the going rate for 2nd and 3rd WRs.

As for not drafting well, maybe they should've used more than one draft pick in the first 3 rounds on a WR in previous years. The last guy we took prior to Harry was Aaron Dobson. You can't go 10 years with only 1 WR selected in those spots.

 

[upstater1]

this was related to payments for this year where they are near the top of the league, for TE as well.

Yes, this is what I said. This year's salaries are high, but they don't have big signing bonuses on the books for future years. In other words, it's just an anomaly. It's mainly Agholor's balloon payment was pushed to this year so he counts for $15m in salary even though his per year is $11m. He's our 2nd highest paid player this year BECAUSE they pushed most of his money to this year. He only counted for $7m last year. So this is just an accounting anomaly.

If you average it, I'm sure we'd be in the middle of the league:

Agholor: $11m
Parker: $6m
Bourne: $5m
Meyers: $4m

That's $26m total

 

[Boomer B]

Bourne was not an overspend. You're talking about one guy, Algholor, who is signed to a 2 year contract that ends this year. The question: would previous production have warranted the same contract if he'd been signed by another team? Compare his money to the WRs who were recently signed in spring of 2022:

Allen Robinson 15.5m per for 3 years (33 catches, 300 yards)
DJ Chark 10m per (14 catches, 200 yards)
Michael Gallup 13m per for 5 years (28 catches, 300 yards)
Russell Gage 10m per for 3 years (29 catches, 200 yards)
Nelson Agholor 11m per for 2 years (25 catches, 300 yards)

All of these guys singed for between 10-15.5m per year, and all of them have roughly the SAME production.
This tells me that this is now the going rate for 2nd and 3rd WRs.

As for not drafting well, maybe they should've used more than one draft pick on a WR in previous years. The last guy we took in the first three rounds prior to Harry was Aaron Dobson. You can't go 10 years with only 1 WR selected in those spots.

Bourne is the very definition of average. 6 years in the league and his best year was 55 receptions and 5 TDs. Agholor is average. Parker is average. We have close to $28m being paid to these guys who are at best average players.

My point is that for average production like that it should be coming from draft picks you don’t have to pay much for, the J. Myers of the world. We are chasing average WRs in FA because we can’t draft them.

 

[upstater1]

BTW, we have $56m in cap space going into next season.

But if McCourty and Devante Parker leave, that's another $16m.

This team could be going into free agency with $72m to spend, no to mention restructures.

 

[upstater1]

Bourne is the very definition of average. 6 years in the league and his best year was 55 receptions and 5 TDs. Agholor is average. Parker is average. We have close to $28m being paid to these guys who are at best average players.

My point is that for average production like that it should be coming from draft picks you don’t have to pay much for, the J. Myers of the world. We are chasing average WRs in FA because we can’t draft them.

We DON'T draft them. Prior to Thornton, we took one guy in 10 years in the first 3 rounds.

Bourne's salary is below average for someone with his production.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

BTW, we have $56m in cap space going into next season.

But if McCourty and Devante Parker leave, that's another $16m.

This team could be going into free agency with $72m to spend, no to mention restructures.

we also have quit a few holes to fill in
starters:
WR
LT
RT
FS
CB
eventually DT/DE

 

[TheRainMaker]

are the WR's properly coached? If this stat is true, how is it possible to have the second highest league wide investment in the WR position and a trash production?

They were also 10th last year. Agholor by himself eats up almost half the amount of the salary total to WR's at 43%. He was a massive overpay and many posters hated this signing. The Pats are also paying Bourne ($6.4M) and Parker ($6M).

I think this group gets completely torn down this offseason. In fact, there's no way they can pay Meyers at this point which could be around $14M to be their highest paid WR. They have to do the unthinkable and start taking more swings in rounds 1-3 for a WR.

 

[Toofy]

agholor gladly is an UFA as well.

this was related to payments for this year where they are near the top of the league, for TE as well.

This is agholors last year.
Jonnu has 2 more but I believe the final year he can be cut with minimal dead cap.
HH has 1 more year .

So our cap really explodes in 2024.
But next year is also onwenu, uche and duggers final year of rookie contract . So let's see how they approach it

 

[Toofy]

we also have quit a few holes to fill in
starters:
WR
LT
RT
FS
CB
eventually DT/DE

I thought mcCourty has dead cap of 9 million anyways next year even without playing.

 

[Toofy]

They were also 10th last year. Agholor by himself eats up almost half the amount of the salary total to WR's at 43%. He was a massive overpay and many posters hated this signing. The Pats are also paying Bourne ($6.4M) and Parker ($6M).

I think this group gets completely torn down this offseason. In fact, there's no way they can pay Meyers at this point which could be around $14M to be their highest paid WR. They have to do the unthinkable and start taking more swings in rounds 1-3 for a WR

No way we can afford Meyers next year .

Better to elevate Nixon to do Meyers role and save up money for bonafide wr for 2024.

I think we should rollover 20-25 million for 2024 so that we can afford marquee players in 2024.

 

[Guts]

I wouldn't say 2019 was a BB failure. He tried with the weapons they just didn't pan out. I still firmly believe with Edelman/AB the Pats are in the Superbowl again

 

[RobertWeathers]

No way we can afford Meyers next year .

They'll be close to $100m in cap space in 2023. They will absolutely be able to afford Meyers.

The real question is will they compete for him in the open market.

Better to elevate Nixon to do Meyers role and save up money for bonafide wr for 2024.

The odds of Nixon performing at Meyer's level are slim to none.

I think we should rollover 20-25 million for 2024 so that we can afford marquee players in 2024.

No need. See above