Bedard shows Haynesworth looking more like a Redskin from Sunday's game

[The-Hooded-One]

But seriously, how about this Ellis dude in comparison. Can somebody put something on the board that hes done this season and I think he costs us 4m this year right ? What is Albert making, 2m guaranteed ?

I agree Albert didnt do that much but not that many on the d-line either so they are not really helping eachother out either.

Nailed it! Haynesworth has been much better than Ellis, yet I never see anybody focusing on Ellis and picking him apart.

 

[jmt57]

I've been going through the game for a second time (very slowly BTW) and I noticed on his first drive (Miami's second drive), he was illegally chopped twice. Unless my definition is wrong, if you are engaged with one blocker and another goes low, it is a penalty. I believe he was double teamed both times and a blocker ended up taking out his legs. In fact, on the second one you can see one of the Miami OL complaining about a leg-whip after he went to the ground (although it looked like he did).

I'm not necessarily arguing in favor of the guy here, but am I wrong? Was it borderline? It looked pretty clear to me.

Now I'm arguing in favor of the guy - he's getting off the ball quicker than the O-line and is getting great penetration. So far no results..... I mean..... sacks. He will make his plays. Once Shaun Ellis (why isn't anyone criticizing him?) stops slacking off, maybe it will make it easier on the rest of the D-Line.

Actually that is not correct, though many television announcers would have us believe that is the rule. For it to be a penalty the second player needs to have originally lined up two or more positions away.

For example if the LG hits a DL high and then the pulling RG comes over and hits that DL low, then that would be an illegal chop block. But if a guard and center did the same thing then no penalty.

It doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense, but that's the way the rule is written. The competition committee has been too busy with other nuances over the years to consider changing this rule.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Actually that is not correct, though many television announcers would have us believe that is the rule. For it to be a penalty the second player needs to have originally lined up two or more positions away.

For example if the LG hits a DL high and then the pulling RG comes over and hits that DL low, then that would be an illegal chop block. But if a guard and center did the same thing then no penalty.

It doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense, but that's the way the rule is written. The competition committee has been too busy with other nuances over the years to consider changing this rule.

FWIW, I think the idea here is that it's legal if a defender could reasonably "prepare" for it, but in the case of non-adjacent players, one of them has to "move over" specifically to deliver the hit.

 

[Rob0729]

Way to twist Bedard's story. Here is what he wrote in the article:

Haynesworth wasn't terrible or anything -- he competed fine (although his final two plays were a little suspect) -- you just expect an obviously talented player to have some sort of an impact.

So Haynesworth was average on Sunday. Not dogging it like in Washington, but not an impact player like he was the first week against the Dolphins.

Even the screen grab of him on the ground was the first play after he had to be pulled to stretch for cramps so you can give him a little slack there.

I just don't get why fans almost root for cetain players to be bad so they can unload on them. Hey, I don't like Haynesworth at all, but I am not going to dump on the guy when he was just average. If he starts to dog it, then I will get upset. Bedard doesn't say that though.

 

[Haley]

If Haynesworth was injured on the 16th snap as Bedard pointed out, he might have been playing injured.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Haynesworth may not have been dominant, but neither was Wilfork in game 1. D-line play, as well as O-line play really have to be taken collectively in a game situation. It certainly wasn't the best game as it relates to pressure, but it was far from the worst too.

This defense and D-line are on pace for 48 sacks this year....... which would be more then we've ever registered as a team. EVER. And that's after 2 games in which our defense has been much maligned.

The negativity surrounding a 2-0 team that has beaten their opponents by an average of 14 points is astounding.

 

[aluminum seats]

Nailed it! Haynesworth has been much better than Ellis, yet I never see anybody focusing on Ellis and picking him apart.

That's because there was so much interest generated by the Haynesworth signing.

Ellis is probably a bit overpaid, but the Pats are under the cap and that was a calculated risk they took to ensure they got him away from the Jets. I think, salary aside, that the expectation for Ellis is to simply perform solidly, and hopefully make a couple of game-changing plays in important games/playoffs, like he did against the Pats last year.

 

[Deus Irae]

Haynesworth may not have been dominant, but neither was Wilfork in game 1. D-line play, as well as O-line play really have to be taken collectively in a game situation. It certainly wasn't the best game as it relates to pressure, but it was far from the worst too.

This defense and D-line are on pace for 48 sacks this year....... which would be more then we've ever registered as a team. EVER. And that's after 2 games in which our defense has been much maligned.

The negativity surrounding a 2-0 team that has beaten their opponents by an average of 14 points is astounding.

What negativity? There's analysis and discussion, but I'm not seeing any wave of panic about the team or its immediate prospects.

 

[Haley]

Nailed it! Haynesworth has been much better than Ellis, yet I never see anybody focusing on Ellis and picking him apart.

Actually, if you read the snap report in this article, Bedard mentions some really nice plays by Ellis. Maybe that is why no one is picking him apart, he is making a difference out there.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

What negativity? There's analysis and discussion, but I'm not seeing any wave of panic about the team or its immediate prospects.

This thread, and it's premise are negative for starters. It basically says Haynesworth is laying down out there. I think that is unfair. He wasn't all-world out there, and he was going against one of the best gaurds in the league, but that's a far cry from "lay lady, lay".

 

[goz421]

I think were most are missing the impact is in the red zone and the goal line. Their defensive line is such now that they force teams to bounce outside by the interior holding or creating a push. This allows linebackers to slide and make plays.

Hence the key stop on 4th down on the goal.

Sheer size is worth a lot.

 

[Deus Irae]

This thread, and it's premise are negative for starters. It basically says Haynesworth is laying down out there. I think that is unfair. He wasn't all-world out there, and he was going against one of the best gaurds in the league, but that's a far cry from "lay lady, lay".

Well this thread was started by someone with an agenda against both Johnson and Haynesworth, and was based upon a warped reading of Bedard's words. However, the OP has been responded to, his bias has been shown, and Haynesworth has been defended.

This thread has largely turned into a positive thread, with a lot of people defending Haynesworth.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Well this thread was started by someone with an agenda against both Johnson and Haynesworth, and was based upon a warped reading of Bedard's words. However, the OP has been responded to, his bias has been shown, and Haynesworth has been defended.

This thread has largely turned into a positive thread, with a lot of people defending Haynesworth.

Indeed.... My comment was mostly an indictment on the OP (and others like him), not the thread in general, which like you said..... has mostly seen rational comments from ppl that see the situation for what it is.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

This thread, and it's premise are negative for starters. It basically says Haynesworth is laying down out there. I think that is unfair. He wasn't all-world out there, and he was going against one of the best gaurds in the league, but that's a far cry from "lay lady, lay".

P in NY...you have stated on more than a million occasions your disdain for negative threads about our team.

Now do you find that just because this is our favorite team that there shall be nothing bad said about a player or within the team?

Just because our team is 2-0 and looking like they will be in the hunt this season does not mean we can't pencil out a player or two that may be questionable to the best of the team regardless of what Belichick does and the fact that what we think is absolutely worthless to what the team will actually do.

I don't know of a sports fans website where everything is hunky dory and positive....never has been and never will be....negative threads have absolutely no meaning to whether a fan is a true fan or not,it's a fan that is opinionated and posts what he thinks about something he sees that may need improvement,a positive fan that sees no wrong with any moves the team makes does not make him a better fan than one that expresses a complaint or an article from a writer he agrees with.

....pros and cons are all part of a message board,not just what YOU want to hear,read or agree with,that's a place in Disneyworld called fantasyland where your wildest dreams come true and all is perfect...this is Patsfans and I love pros and cons and disagreements which is what makes a board interesting.

If everyone agreed with one another and found not one critic of the team,I am not sure Ian would have as many members as he does today,it would be boring.

 

[mrfield16]

This is a nice site...I would love opinions on how mine compares (for Pats fans)

I have nowhere else to get Patriot Fans opinions...because ESPN is terrible..

Click Here if you are willing to offer feedback....thanks!

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Well this thread was started by someone with an agenda against both Johnson and Haynesworth, and was based upon a warped reading of Bedard's words. However, the OP has been responded to, his bias has been shown, and Haynesworth has been defended.

This thread has largely turned into a positive thread, with a lot of people defending Haynesworth.

What does this thread have to do with Chad?....no one dragged him in here except for FTW and is not the premise for what the discussion is about and should be directed to that thread about him,that's another ballgame with no place in here.

Bedard states he thinks Haynesworth did not show enough and needs improvement as his play chart indicates,that means to someone that he thinks Haynesworth did not put out full effort and needs to do better which is exactly what this thread is about but you continue to try and stir crap up as usual....I actually expect that from you daily,it's like the sun coming up,it's going to happen.

 

[Deus Irae]

What does this thread have to do with Chad?....no one dragged him in here except for FTW and is not the premise for what the discussion is about and should be directed to that thread about him,that's another ballgame with no place in here.

You have an agenda against both players. I noted one while discussing the other. No big deal.

Bedard states he thinks Haynesworth did not show enough and needs improvement as his play chart indicates,that means to someone that he thinks Haynesworth did not put out full effort and needs to do better which is exactly what this thread is about but you continue to try and stir crap up as usual....I actually expect that from you daily,it's like the sun coming up,it's going to happen.

Now, here's where you're misrepresenting what Bedard wrote:

Haynesworth wasn't terrible or anything -- he competed fine (although his final two plays were a little suspect) -- you just expect an obviously talented player to have some sort of an impact.

Also, I wasn't stirring up crap, you were. You made a thread specifically to misrepresent an article and to stir crap off of that. I was responding to you by giving an example that killed your argument. Also, stop being a hypocrite. To quote your own words:

pros and cons are all part of a message board,not just what YOU want to hear,read or agree with,that's a place in Disneyworld called fantasyland where your wildest dreams come true and all is perfect...this is Patsfans and I love pros and cons and disagreements which is what makes a board interesting.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

You have an agenda against both players. I noted one while discussing the other. No big deal.



Now, here's where you're misrepresenting what Bedard wrote:



Also, I wasn't stirring up crap, you were. You made a thread specifically to misrepresent an article and to stir crap off of that. I was responding to you by giving an example that killed your argument. Also, stop being a hypocrite. To quote your own words:

There is a difference between pro and con and trying to instigate an argument with jabs at the poster,not at the team...that you are good at.

I guess you didn't read the chart he posted....seemed to me he was expressively showing that when Vince and Al were on the field together Al was double teamed only 7 times and comments in there were far from complimentary,there was very little positivity in that article if you understood it.

If Haynesworth joined the Jets instead of NE this forum would be all over Al every time he came up empty in a play...that's the way it is here for many,while your a Patriot you can do no wrong

 

[Rob0729]

There is a difference between pro and con and trying to instigate an argument with jabs at the poster,not at the team...that you are good at.

I guess you didn't read the chart he posted....seemed to me he was expressively showing that when Vince and Al were on the field together Al was double teamed only 7 times and comments in there were far from complimentary,there was very little positivity in that article if you understood it.

If Haynesworth joined the Jets instead of NE this forum would be all over Al every time he came up empty in a play...that's the way it is here for many,while your a Patriot you can do no wrong

I don't know. Plaxico Burress was shut out this past week. Derrick Mason has been a disapointment thus far. I don't see many people on this board talking about them.

In fact, Plax was in on about as many plays as Ochocinco was this past weekend and got two less catches and 45 less yards and Plax was the #2 WR and Ochocinco was the #3 WR. Yet, people are still piling on Ochocinco while I don't hear much Plax talk. Even after Rex Ryan spun his poor performance into he was being double teamed all game. Which makes no sense when the Jags had to know Holmes and Keller were more dangerous receiving options.

 

[patsfan13]

AH was either injured/cramping during the game the trainers were working on him, on the sidelines last week. He is guilty of not being in game shape yet to play the number of snaps they would like yet. NBD.