As of today (2/10), who do you *want* the Pats to draft first?

[imahobgoblin]

Matt Light's measurements:


I think we are way overthinking the draftniks arm measurement BS, and Banks, Campbell or Simmons should be fine additions to the line. I agree with you, not at #4. Now if they blow up at the combine/pro days, then maybe that will change.

I am all for trading back a few slots and taking the best one.

Joe Thuney last Sunday night says hello from left tackle. His arm length (32.1/4") was a major issue in the first punch. Sweat kept beating him to the inside all night long. Sweat's arms are 34 5/8’’. That 2 inches is the push to gain the advantage. A LT can use the body and feet to block the outside rush, but if the rusher has the first punch, it opens the door to the inside. That is why Thuney got killed all night. Peter Skoronski was considered to be last year's draft best lineman. He came in at 32.1/4". The T-Rex memes were brutal. What happened? he failed miserably at LT and switched to LG where he is now found a home. So no, we are not overthinking it. There is precedent and evidence that you want your starting LT for the next 10 years to be ideal. We don't need guards right now. We need tackles.

 

[Steve102]

Joe Thuney last Sunday night says hello from left tackle. His arm length (32.1/4") was a major issue in the first punch. Sweat kept beating him to the inside all night long. Sweat's arms are 34 5/8’’. That 2 inches is the push to gain the advantage. A LT can use the body and feet to block the outside rush, but if the rusher has the first punch, it opens the door to the inside. That is why Thuney got killed all night. Peter Skoronski was considered to be last year's draft best lineman. He came in at 32.1/4". The T-Rex memes were brutal. What happened? he failed miserably at LT and switched to LG where he is now found a home. So no, we are not overthinking it. There is precedent and evidence that you want your starting LT for the next 10 years to be ideal. We don't need guards right now. We need tackles.

There's more to players than measurables. We had a front row seat to that for years.

 

[imahobgoblin]

There's more to players than measurables. We had a front row seat to that for years.

Of course there is, but use common sense and address the examples I stated. Skoronski failed. Thuney failed. Why? What measurable do they have in common? It is arm length. Both are good players, just not at tackle. So let's discuss that rather than dismiss it. We also are not in 2007 anymore. Bill Belichick is not walking through that door and starting another dynasty. This is a whole different league with radically different players. Do you remember life after Brady when Bill could not figure it out? The drafting in the last 10 years was horrific because your "measurables don't matter." Pick Cole Strange in round 1 rather than 3. Choose N'Keal over AJ Brown or DK Metcalf. There are tons of examples. You can have that trash.

 

[lancerman]

Are you sure about this? Watson has been a disaster and is going to miss another huge chunk of time next season. He might not step on the field again for the Browns. They have to pay him no matter what. I'm not saying they should go after Sanders but I would not completely rule out the fact they are looking for their next quarterback, even with Watson on the roster.

If they trade Garrett it is all but an admission they're going into full rebuild mode.

There's way too much money tied up in him. Even if they wanted to move on they can't. Next year is going to be more about getting through a mess and seeing where you are.

Also even if we assume they do it. I don't think there is a chance in hell anyone is drafting Sanders in the top 3.

 

[Pape]

there's not a tackle worthy of a top 12 pick......that's the issue; there's a couple of NCAA OTs who project to G in the NFL in the top 12, and that's not as bad a need......so if you want an OT with your first pick, then trade down, build draft capital, and get someone who can play OT in the mid first round

they need to fix the line on both sides of the ball, they need to protect drake & stop the run; they could do neither this year - that's been my stance all along; i really don't want them to stay at 4, I want a trade down to 8-15, I want more picks, and get your OT one way or another mid-late 1st or early 2nd......there just isn't an actual OT worthy of a #4 pick.......I could care less about shiny toys

but this team could NOT stop the run.......don't stop the run, you don't win games......D front is as big a need as OL........and the OL needs can & should be dealt with via FA & by using draft capital......it's just not worth the #4 pick to take a guy who has to move to G in the NFL

and yes, vacuum is correct....you're identifying ONE need with ONE pick........and 4 ain't the place to deal with that ONE need; this is a team full of needs, and that one isn't going to be filled at the very top end of this draft

Your opinion that there isn't one worthy of a top ten pick.

My opinion there is.

The run game defense will be bolstered by the return of a healthy Barmore and a healthy Bentley.

Not a vacuum. its a matter of thought - as in I thought about it - WR EDGE, DT - they are all needs. But none of those needs are as dire as the offensive line. Its a lot more involved than saying BPA...

You are fixated on "value".

sometimes its worth overpaying for the right piece.

 

[Steve102]

Of course there is, but use common sense and address the examples I stated. Skoronski failed. Thuney failed. Why? What measurable do they have in common? It is arm length. Both are good players, just not at tackle. So let's discuss that rather than dismiss it. We also are not in 2007 anymore. Bill Belichick is not walking through that door and starting another dynasty. This is a whole different league with radically different players. Do you remember life after Brady when Bill could not figure it out? The drafting in the last 10 years was horrific because your "measurables don't matter." Pick Cole Strange in round 1 rather than 3. Choose N'Keal over AJ Brown or DK Metcalf. There are tons of examples. You can have that trash.

I didn’t say measurables don’t matter. Said there’s more to it.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

Dante Scarnecchia said:
“But me personally, I’m kind of an old-school guy, you know? I’ve heard the saying that if I’m taking a guy with the fourth pick in the draft, I’m taking a guy who can sack the quarterback or score touchdowns. I think I would take a guy that can do those things over an offensive lineman. Now, I’m not saying don’t take one. [But] there’s a lot of good football players out there.”
Carter and Graham fits that quote
Hunter if he decides he wants to play WR

 

[imahobgoblin]

I didn’t say measurables don’t matter. Said there’s more to it.

No one denied there is more to it. That is obvious. Now how about you address the short arms of Thuney and Skoronski? Why do you keep ignoring that?

 

[signbabybrady]

Dante Scarnecchia said:
“But me personally, I’m kind of an old-school guy, you know? I’ve heard the saying that if I’m taking a guy with the fourth pick in the draft, I’m taking a guy who can sack the quarterback or score touchdowns. I think I would take a guy that can do those things over an offensive lineman. Now, I’m not saying don’t take one. [But] there’s a lot of good football players out there.”
Carter and Graham fits that quote
Hunter if he decides he wants to play WR

That's quite an interesting statement.

Easily said when you're a guy who can coach castoffs, wrestlers, Germans, and firemen into starting OLs.

 

[Pape]

Dante Scarnecchia said:
“But me personally, I’m kind of an old-school guy, you know? I’ve heard the saying that if I’m taking a guy with the fourth pick in the draft, I’m taking a guy who can sack the quarterback or score touchdowns. I think I would take a guy that can do those things over an offensive lineman. Now, I’m not saying don’t take one. [But] there’s a lot of good football players out there.”
Carter and Graham fits that quote
Hunter if he decides he wants to play WR

pfftt... what does he know...


*** jfc now i gotta fight scar now too ***



bring 'em on...

 

[PatsFan2]

There's more to players than measurables. We had a front row seat to that for years.

Living in the pass Steve.

 

[Salsalife]

You know there's alot of hype for our number 1 can't miss pick. To be honest I'm really more concerned about landing starters in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th round. I guess my question is not the most value at that pick but the Patriots needs. I see this as priorities
1st. O-Line left tackle
2nd. D-line, run Stopper
3rd. O-Line right tackle
4th. Linebacker in the box
WBU?.

 

[Keep Up With The Joneses]

There's way too much money tied up in him. Even if they wanted to move on they can't. Next year is going to be more about getting through a mess and seeing where you are.

Also even if we assume they do it. I don't think there is a chance in hell anyone is drafting Sanders in the top 3.

I guess it's a matter of if they consider him a sunk cost. There's no way out of the deal, and it has produced zero positive results, and will unlikely produce any in the future. So if they think they can get their guy and pay him a rookie deal at QB, they might just do it anyway. Watson is worthless regardless of if he plays or not. Even though they can't get out from under, if they are looking to the future they may be willing to just take the hit or let him ride the bench until the contract ends. We're really only looking at one more season as he might not play at all next year.

We do agree that Sanders should not be going in the top 3. To me this is just a discussion about where Cleveland's head might be at regarding the future of the position.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

You know there's alot of hype for our number 1 can't miss pick. To be honest I'm really more concerned about landing starters in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th round. I guess my question is not the most value at that pick but the Patriots needs. I see this as priorities
1st. O-Line left tackle
2nd. D-line, run Stopper
3rd. O-Line right tackle
4th. Linebacker in the box
WBU?.

It’s hard to really say what’s priority IMO. We have the worst OT pairing in the NFL. Literally bottom of the league at both spots. We have the worst overall WR room in the NFL probably and I’d say definitely the worst #1 WR atop the depth chart. We were last in sacks last year and our only above average EDGE is White who’s better off as an inside rusher, so we have probably the biggest need for an edge of anyone in the NFL too.

Outside of QB, those 3 spots (OT, WR, EDGE) are the most valued in the NFL if you go by contract values. And we have legitimately the biggest need of anyone in the NFL at all 3 of them IMO.

And those are all positions where you start not just one but two players, so even if we signed one of each in FA for top dollar we’d still have a desperate need for all 3. And to even pile on that point, CB is probably the next most valuable position and that’s another one where you start 2 players and we have garbage at that spot outside of Gonzo.

Oh and then, once you get past those premium positions, it’s not like the rest of our roster is good. Our linebackers are probably worst in the league too. Our TE group has a good starter but nothing behind him unless we keep Hooper (who is older side of things). Onwenu is good, but the other 2 IOL spots are weak/injury questions. Our RBs are JAGs. Our DTs are JAGs unless Barmore recovers from blood clots.

Honestly, I can’t even get around to “priorities”. I treat this roster as a blank slate. Maye is the QB of the future and Gonzo is one of the starting CBs. I don’t think anything else on the roster is solidified or locked in last the next year or two.

OT, WR, EDGE are all the most premium spots so I guess those would be my “priority” if I had to pick but I think worrying about specific spots at this point is silly. It’s too close to ground zero.

 

[yukon cornelius]

Your opinion that there isn't one worthy of a top ten pick.

My opinion there is.

The run game defense will be bolstered by the return of a healthy Barmore and a healthy Bentley.

Not a vacuum. its a matter of thought - as in I thought about it - WR EDGE, DT - they are all needs. But none of those needs are as dire as the offensive line. Its a lot more involved than saying BPA...

You are fixated on "value".

sometimes its worth overpaying for the right piece.

Not sure we can count on Barmore being back, either......Reiss expressed those concerns recently

 

[lancerman]

I guess it's a matter of if they consider him a sunk cost. There's no way out of the deal, and it has produced zero positive results, and will unlikely produce any in the future. So if they think they can get their guy and pay him a rookie deal at QB, they might just do it anyway. Watson is worthless regardless of if he plays or not. Even though they can't get out from under, if they are looking to the future they may be willing to just take the hit or let him ride the bench until the contract ends. We're really only looking at one more season as he might not play at all next year.

We do agree that Sanders should not be going in the top 3. To me this is just a discussion about where Cleveland's head might be at regarding the future of the position.

The value of drafting a rookie QB is that you can potentially get elite play on a cheap contract. Even if they did draft a QB, they’d still have a stupid QB contract on their books and kills anything they can do. Also next year is a better class, so they can clear the books this year, have more room to take advantage of a rookie QB and also probably get a better one if they wait.

The Giants have a bunch of guys who actually need to produce this year and can’t risk not having a QB. Which is why I think they go in for Ward if they didn’t get Stafford or someone like Goff

 

[Pape]

It’s hard to really say what’s priority IMO. We have the worst OT pairing in the NFL. Literally bottom of the league at both spots. We have the worst overall WR room in the NFL probably and I’d say definitely the worst #1 WR atop the depth chart. We were last in sacks last year and our only above average EDGE is White who’s better off as an inside rusher, so we have probably the biggest need for an edge of anyone in the NFL too.

Outside of QB, those 3 spots (OT, WR, EDGE) are the most valued in the NFL if you go by contract values. And we have legitimately the biggest need of anyone in the NFL at all 3 of them IMO.

And those are all positions where you start not just one but two players, so even if we signed one of each in FA for top dollar we’d still have a desperate need for all 3. And to even pile on that point, CB is probably the next most valuable position and that’s another one where you start 2 players and we have garbage at that spot outside of Gonzo.

Oh and then, once you get past those premium positions, it’s not like the rest of our roster is good. Our linebackers are probably worst in the league too. Our TE group has a good starter but nothing behind him unless we keep Hooper (who is older side of things). Onwenu is good, but the other 2 IOL spots are weak/injury questions. Our RBs are JAGs. Our DTs are JAGs unless Barmore recovers from blood clots.

Honestly, I can’t even get around to “priorities”. I treat this roster as a blank slate. Maye is the QB of the future and Gonzo is one of the starting CBs. I don’t think anything else on the roster is solidified or locked in last the next year or two.

OT, WR, EDGE are all the most premium spots so I guess those would be my “priority” if I had to pick but I think worrying about specific spots at this point is silly. It’s too close to ground zero.

The priority is protecting Drake Maye.

It's really not that complicated.

 

[Pape]

Not sure we can count on Barmore being back, either......Reiss expressed those concerns recently

if david andrews, who had blood clots in his lungs, can make it back, i see no reason why Barmore cannot make it back...

 

[yukon cornelius]

if david andrews, who had blood clots in his lungs, can make it back, i see no reason why Barmore cannot make it back...

Looking for a link to the reiss piece, he expressed that there was legit concerns about his career within the org