Are we all missing Deion's intention?

[Jacky Roberts]

That option would only apply for the Pats if Branch made it out of the season healthy and was a solid contributor in 2006. However, if Branch has that type of season, he's more valuable in the FA market.

I dont think so. Looking at his stats, he's basically no better statistically than an average #2 or below average #1 receiver. If he hits the free agent market, no way he earns as much in 2007 than if the Patriots franchised him and had to pay him an average of the top wideouts. I'm not sure what Deion is crying about, because there's no way in hell BB franchises Deion because he's be painfully overpaid at that rate. Im not sure why Deion or his agent don't see this.

 

[DaBruinz]

I doubt they'd want to pay him 7-8M even for one year with no bonus money on the line, unless he has a great year this year.

Even if they did it'd be one year only, or they'd pay him 20% more the following year.

I don't know why they don't agree not to franchise him. At most they'd get him for one more year. The "sign and trade" thing...maybe they'd get a #2...if he signs a big contract they'll get a #2 compensatory anyway.

No, they wouldn't. The highest compensation pick available is a 3rd round pick. And it would be at the end of the 3rd round.

If they agree he comes into camp and they can win the SB this year. IF they don't, he holds out to week 10 and sits the rest of the season.

Small chance he may relent without the agreement and come back anyway, but he may be so bitter it wouldn't be worth it anyway.

Personally, I think that Branch is getting what he wants and that is free agency. I think its a BS smokescreen that he wants to stay. I think that he KNOWS he's not a true #1 and won't get true #1 money from the Pats. I also think that he knows that there are some idiot teams out there who WILL pay for his services.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I dont think so. Looking at his stats, he's basically no better statistically than an average #2 or below average #1 receiver. If he hits the free agent market, no way he earns as much in 2007 than if the Patriots franchised him and had to pay him an average of the top wideouts. I'm not sure what Deion is crying about, because there's no way in hell BB franchises Deion because he's be painfully overpaid at that rate. Im not sure why Deion or his agent don't see this.

Sure he does if he gets a $10-12M signing bonus as part of a 5-6 year deal which is what his agent is telling him is the least he will get. And he's not painfully overpaid at the franchise next season - the deal we are offering him would pay him $11M between now and then. We can divide as well as Chayut who claims that averages $5.5M for 2006-2007. Well $8M divided by 2 (his $1M 2006 salary if we don't recoup it all in fines plus the 2007 tag) averages $4M for 2006-2007. At that price 2 years of Deion on the field would be a relative bargain.

But they won't tag him to play him and go through another TC embroiled in a holdout. It will be tag and trade at that point and it will be done before the draft.

 

[DaBruinz]

Pardon my ignorance, but considering how much a franchised wide out costs, wouldn't Branch WANT to be franchised next year? Seems he'd make a lot more money.

Actually, Deion stands to lose about a 500K to 1 million over this year and next if he gets franchised in comparison to what he would have gotten had he taken the Pats extension offer. Under the Pats extension, Deion would have made over 9 million with incentives over the 2 years.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

MO: So from your point of view, Deion himself (not Chayut) wants out of New England right now, and is only looking forward to getting out of dodge, with absolutely no intentions of renegotiating at all?

I may be a fool, but I'm still somehow hoping that Deion would like to work things out. Although his agent clearly doesn't.

 

[Gopats!!!]

If Branch wanted to just leave the Patriots and make even more crazy money in FA, his best bet would be to show up and play. Why hold out? Show up and train with the team, get in the groove, and play the season. The better he does this season, the more money he makes in FA. By holding out, he is missing reps and everything else that goes into that. It seems people who skip camp seem to have more injuries. It could be a misconception, but that's how it seems to me. I know he didn't do much in the preseason last year, but he was still in the meetings, doing the workouts, etc.

As for getting franchised, a long term deal means security. You get the signing bonus, and depending on the situation, it is too CAP unfriendly to cut people. In additon, if you get hurt with a long term contract I believe you have some protection. On a one year deal, you are on your own. If you get franchised, you make some money that year, but that's it. branch is young, but his body does not seem to be able to withstand the NFL that well. If he suffers more injuries, it will hurt his value in FA. Playing a one year deal is a big risk for him.

Of course, there are idiots out there willing to break the bank for any player, regardless of actual value. But if you are branch, what do YOU do???

 

[JoeSixPat]

No one's missed the point - certainly no one in the front office.

Deion wants the Patriots to give up their leverage by allowing him to become a free agent next year, free and clear of the franchise tag

The Patriots want Deion to give up his leverage and not hold out into the season.

The Patriots figure Deion has more to lose by playing his card than they do

What would be best is if both sides could move a little to find some common ground. One or both sides obviously won't budge.

 

[Jacky Roberts]

No one's missed the point - certainly no one in the front office.

Deion wants the Patriots to give up their leverage by allowing him to become a free agent next year, free and clear of the franchise tag

The Patriots want Deion to give up his leverage and not hold out into the season.

The Patriots figure Deion has more to lose by playing his card than they do

What would be best is if both sides could move a little to find some common ground. One or both sides obviously won't budge.

In my opinion, every day that goes by is a day closer to the last we'll see of Deion Branch. To be honest, he's good, but he's not worth the money he's asking, ahem, demanding. The Pats should trade/sign another WR and tell Deion, "thanks for the memories, you can hold out all year".

 

[bucky]

In my opinion, every day that goes by is a day closer to the last we'll see of Deion Branch. To be honest, he's good, but he's not worth the money he's asking, ahem, demanding. The Pats should trade/sign another WR and tell Deion, "thanks for the memories, you can hold out all year".

Eddie Berlin isn't enough for you?

 

[mgteich]

A compromise based on the discussions below is for Branch to play and for the pats to give up the right to franchise. Branch would also like to be paid more for 2006, perhaps as a signing bonus for the above new contract.

I have absolutely no clue why Branch should fire his agent who by all accounts is pursuing results that will benefit Branch. If there was no sit out, Branch would have gotten ZERO additional money this year, and would have faced a franchise and trade next year, rather than pure free agency.

OK, Who thinks that Branch will get LESS than that because of the holdout.

The bottom line is that we want Branch to sign what WE think is a reasonable deal and waive free agency rights, and Branch's agent is advising that he would get more through free agency. Presuming that Branch doesn't have a major injury this year, I believe his agent is correct in his analysis; don't you?

And if he has an injury, do you really want the patriots to have $10M or do of dead money on their cap, having paid Branch $12M or so to play this year?

In this new free agency environment, players will think that they will get huge money until the owners stop paying huge money.

No one's missed the point - certainly no one in the front office.

Deion wants the Patriots to give up their leverage by allowing him to become a free agent next year, free and clear of the franchise tag

The Patriots want Deion to give up his leverage and not hold out into the season.

The Patriots figure Deion has more to lose by playing his card than they do

What would be best is if both sides could move a little to find some common ground. One or both sides obviously won't budge.

 

[maxhagen]

I believe he is trying to pull a Vinatraitor. Thats exactly what happened with that baztard... ready for the backstabbing...

 

[AzPatsFan]

Re: Are we all missing the real money?

In all these hypothetical discussions of big FA contracts, no one ever asks how many are actually carried out and completed.

It seems to me virtually all the big overpaid FA contracts are ballyhooed for a year or at most two, before the new club is feeling the pinch of an overpaid player, and is seeking ways to reduce or eliminate it.

Renegotiation, or threats to cut, start and multiply. Eventually the overpaid player gets dumped, one way or another. He never collects on all the money supposedly for which he signed.

I wonder what percentage of such FA contracts are completed? I'd bet its less than half, and probably less than a quarter of them. Computations of the value of FA contracts are therefor specious.

 

[Va_Pats_Fan]

Just to play the devils advocate here....

Did the Patriots respect the contracts they signed with Milloy or Law?

Nope. Pretty convenient when a player is expected to honour thier's but a team can null and void the contract whenever they like. Until the "playing" field is balenced, I'm afraid we will see more of this.

Its all business. Period. Branch knows that he can get $$$$$ else where. Why play for 20 million for 4 years, when he can get 30 for 5 next year.

 

[mcbee]

Just to play the devils advocate here....

Did the Patriots respect the contracts they signed with Milloy or Law?

Nope. Pretty convenient when a player is expected to honour thier's but a team can null and void the contract whenever they like. Until the "playing" field is balenced, I'm afraid we will see more of this.

Its all business. Period. Branch knows that he can get $$$$$ else where. Why play for 20 million for 4 years, when he can get 30 for 5 next year.

Yes they did respect it. Contracts are worded so that they are not "guaranteed". The price per year is the price to keep them off of the FA market and playing for the team. But they don't have to pay it.

Branch may be thinking that it's dumb for him to play. If he's injured he loses out on big bucks. No way around it, unfortunately, other than a contract extension which they were going to give him.

And an "insurance" policy for a season that pays him x million would probably cost 5-10% of that amount.

Still don't understand why they don't agree not to franchise him. He's not worth anywhere near 7M even if it is for one year only, no signing bonus. So what's the risk? They get a 3rd in compensatory, which is about what they'd get in a trade.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Just to play the devils advocate here....

Did the Patriots respect the contracts they signed with Milloy or Law?

Nope. Pretty convenient when a player is expected to honour thier's but a team can null and void the contract whenever they like. Until the "playing" field is balenced, I'm afraid we will see more of this.

Its all business. Period. Branch knows that he can get $$$$$ else where. Why play for 20 million for 4 years, when he can get 30 for 5 next year.

Yes, they did. Contracts are binding on the player but not the team in the NFL. That is why players get to pocket signing bonus money based on the length of the deal they sign - part of that up front payment is severance in the event their cap number gets too high to remain viable and they are unwilling to renegotiate to make it viable. Ty has yet to make as much money as he was insulted by when the Pat's offered him an extension to eleviate his inflated cap # in 2004.

You will never see guaranteed contracts across the board in football because teams employ far too many players(80+) over the course of a season as compared to other sports and guaranteeing deals would result in far lower deals in total and they'd be devoid of bonus money - otherwise it would result in bankrupcy for a capped league.

And while math was never my favorite subject, because this year is not going away and may in fact cost Deion money to play for us, that 30 over the next 5 you tout is really 30 over 6 which equals guess what....$5M per which is the same as he'd get if he signed the deal in March - only he'd have already seen $4M of it. Is that you Jason?

 

[Va_Pats_Fan]

Yes they did respect it. Contracts are worded so that they are not "guaranteed". The price per year is the price to keep them off of the FA market and playing for the team. But they don't have to pay it.

Branch may be thinking that it's dumb for him to play. If he's injured he loses out on big bucks. No way around it, unfortunately, other than a contract extension which they were going to give him.

And an "insurance" policy for a season that pays him x million would probably cost 5-10% of that amount.

Still don't understand why they don't agree not to franchise him. He's not worth anywhere near 7M even if it is for one year only, no signing bonus. So what's the risk? They get a 3rd in compensatory, which is about what they'd get in a trade.

Thats sorta what I was pointed out. They are not "guaranteed" from the teams point of view. If a player under performs, they get cut/renegoitated so the team doesn't 'overpay'. If however, the player out plays his contact, they have little recourse.

As to the whys and who's of this particular issue, I agree with you, wish it would get done.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

That isn't the way it sounded to me.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/michael_silver/08/01/brady.pats/index.html


He is strictly interested in going to the highest bidder in free agency!

But, if he doesn't get a deal done, Deion is stuck here this year AND next.

That's two seasons lost and a reputation as a disgruntled player.

I can't see the upside of this holdout for Deion or his agent.

Maybe I am just jaded and/or naive.

ADPF

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Still don't understand why they don't agree not to franchise him. He's not worth anywhere near 7M even if it is for one year only, no signing bonus. So what's the risk? They get a 3rd in compensatory, which is about what they'd get in a trade.

It's been explained to you so I guess you just don't want to understand it. The franchise tag for WR in 2007 will be less than the signing and roster bonus money plus salary they have already offered him to play in 2007. A couple of million less. And if he has a 1000 yard season for the first time in his life in 2006 he will bring more than a 3 in trade. Could bring a late 1, or a high 2 and a swap for a higher 1, or a 2006 day one pick and a conditional pick that could be a first rounder in 2008....there are lots of things he could bring including another body at a position of value for us and a pick, all of which would be better than a compensatory tail end of the 3rd rounder.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

All that said, I think a little sanity will strike branch, he will sign his huge deal, and everyone will be happy

I thought that for a long while, but we're coming up on game 2 of the pre-season and they aren't even talking.

I have changed my position. I think Deion's days in New England are seriously numbered.

I'll miss him, but we'll live!

He should really make a call to Damien Woody, Mike Compton, Lawyer Milloy, Bobby Hamilton, Chad Eaton, et al, before he carries this thing too far.

Everybody in the NFL makes a cr@pload of money, but not everybody gets to play on a team contending for champinships every year!

Thank God I didn't plunk down $65 on that #83 jersey last year!

ADPF

 

[the taildragger]

You may not 'get' it but it is really obvious. Chayut intends to shop Branch elsewhere next year so Chayut can line his pockets with gold. Thus, Chayut has not made a single effort to negotiate a damn thing with the Pats since May. Thus, Chayut essentially said the Pats were a bunch of dirtbags, in a Borges interview. Thus, Chayut's only interest is in not having Deion franchised, so Chayut can cash in on the previously mentioned pot of gold.

If Branch wishes to do anything else, he first needs to fire his agent. Or just take what the Pats offered.

I'm not sure what part of this is a mystery.

the problem is the chronic perception here that the evil agent is leading Deion astray.

Why is it not completely sensible for Deion to avoid being franchised? Who among us would advise him to go for the franchise tag if we represented him? Keep in mind that with the direction the cap is going, 2007+ contracts are going WAY up...this is not about whether or not he's a top WR RIGHT NOW...but where he will be paid relative to the average receiver in say 2008/9 when cap is 50% higher than the current level.