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Anyone still think the run defense is fine?

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sb1

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Last week it was 52 carries allowed to the Jets and now getting hit for 5+ gainers on second down, and obviously the big one on 4th.

I haven't checked how many good backs they face the rest of the way but I know there are a few...and with no Vince walking through that door in 2013 this team needs to make a move to help this D out. IMO.
 
It was fine before they lost Wilfork, Kelly, and Mayo. They just lost the heart of their interior defense, what did you expect?
 
Thery're doing fine with the personnel thy have. Nobodies giving away top 350 lb DTs, in fact you couldn't get one if you paid dearly, most likely.

The problem is when you have a qb with a bad hand and for some damn reason don't use your only dynamic running back, you allow the other team to run and the more they run, the more they weigh down young and undersized DTs.

It's as if we had a healthy Wilfork, but decided to only play him in the second half.
 
It was fine before they lost Wilfork, Kelly, and Mayo. They just lost the heart of their interior defense, what did you expect?

I suppose we should just roll over and give up then?

What most of us "expected" was a hit to the defense, but the depth to keep us in the games--and possibly even a move or two to be made. It's not like Bill Belichick to sit back and watch the whole defense fall apart due to ANY reasoning.

You have to regroup and do whatever is necessary to keep the team competitive.
 
Thery're doing fine with the personnel thy have. Nobodies giving away top 350 lb DTs, in fact you couldn't get one if you paid dearly, most likely.

That may be the only chance we have at staying competitive this season. There really is no other choice. We've seen plenty of 2nd and 3rd round picks suck in the past several seasons. It may be time to attempt to make a move. I see no other way.
 
That may be the only chance we have at staying competitive this season. There really is no other choice. We've seen plenty of 2nd and 3rd round picks suck in the past several seasons. It may be time to attempt to make a move. I see no other way.

We're 6-2 and have beaten the NO Saints. What's your definition of competitive?

They can't build a substitute Vince Wilfork in a lab. The type of player they need would cost a top ten pick usually, and that is an unproven rookie. I'm sure they are scouring the waiver list and trade possibilities, but they likely would get a name that's fat and over the hill, or nothing. Teams don't trade Wilforks or equivalent.

It's like saying if (gawd forbid) Brady was out, we need to trade for a Brady equivalent. You can want whatever you want, that doesn't mean you can have it.

They got two very hard working DTs, they'll get Kelly back and they're stalking the P squad. Teams that have the player they want are very happy to have them and not into trading them. They'll have to draft one or two.
 
expected with the injuries but continuous 3 and outs on offense doesnt help the defense either
 
Elite Pass D/mediocre rushing D(2013)>Elite Rush D/mediocre pass D (2008-2010/2012)
 
I suppose we should just roll over and give up then?

I never said they should give up but you should EXPECT a dropoff in ability when you lose 2 starters and an important rotation player in Wilfork, Mayo, and Kelly. Now I know we have some rookies, such as Vellano and Jones, who are trying hard but these guys are UDFAs or in their 1st year in the NFL or both. You're gonna see some struggles with personnel like that!

Should we try to obtain some help before the trade deadline? Sure, but it takes 2 teams to tango and we might not be able to get anyone. I will be pleased if we can get some decent help for the DL and not overpay too badly. But that remains to be seen, like BB said, there's a lot that goes into NFL trades, including adapting to the system so quickly, pick value, required salary, etc.
 
That may be the only chance we have at staying competitive this season. There really is no other choice. We've seen plenty of 2nd and 3rd round picks suck in the past several seasons. It may be time to attempt to make a move. I see no other way.

If Kelly returns, then I expect the run defense will improve.

As for trades, there just isn't much to be had to replace Wilfork at any price. Most teams don't carry 2 elite run stuffers. I doubt good to average are out there and available, so it just isn't worth dumping picks for a marginal return at best.
 
I don't know what they changed at halftime, but it was fine in the 2nd half.

Hopefully Kelly can come back strong to help things out too.
 
Decent performance against the run against the Dolphins today. I liked the work of Jones and Vellano upfront, and Brandon Spikes was huge in the run game. Kelly and Talib coming back soon will restore the natural order of things.
 
If the offense can be more consistent and allow the defense to play from ahead and make people throw the ball, the run defense issues can be somewhat marginalized. Look at the 2nd half after they got back in the game, they gave up some pass plays sure (long 3rd down screen, for example) but they were getting after Tannehill and made some plays in the pass game.

I won't argue about strength of competition or anything, the schedule is what it is, but they've lost 2 games by a total of 10 points. This is with all the injuries, lost parts, new parts, kinda getting screwed in the Jets game, and Brady struggling (note: struggling, not regressing, not washed up).

The defense isn't '85 Bears or '00 Ravens, they aren't throwing shutouts or setting records, but they are playing well enough to keep every game winnable. I know I'm not the first one on here with this reference, but grinding out games and outlasting the opponent through the full 60 minutes was a hallmark of the dynasty-era teams. Of course I'd prefer Brady being 25/28 for 325 yds and 4 TDs, Ridley with 100 yds and a 34-0 win every week. But in practical terms halfway through the season the Patriots have endured quite a bit of adversity and kept themselves in control of the division and they are competitive in every single game. I understand having concerns based on inconsistency, injuries, or other personnel problems, but there's a lot more reason for optimism. Pats fans above all others (well, except maybe 2000's Colts fans) should understand that you can't win the Super Bowl by dominating the first 8 games of the year. They're 6-2, so they're in the mix for the playoffs and even to get a first-round bye. Just keep getting better.
 
I don't know what they changed at halftime, but it was fine in the 2nd half.

Hopefully Kelly can come back strong to help things out too.

The defense went to a lot of blitzing and Miami wasn't ready for it since the Pats don't do that much. It was the econd half and thr was no halftime to get re-organized.

Now it's on film, and opponents will be ready to torch the Pats if they try it again.
 
If the offense can be more consistent and allow the defense to play from ahead and make people throw the ball, the run defense issues can be somewhat marginalized.

Exactly. They have to scheme to stuff the run and if the D stuffs the run for a loss twice at the opponents nine, then the offense goes and throws interceptions and one yard a carry Blount runs resulting in a 2 to 1 deficit in TOPossesion, any balanced team will find a way to make us pay on defense.
 
The defense went to a lot of blitzing and Miami wasn't ready for it since the Pats don't do that much. It was the econd half and thr was no halftime to get re-organized.

Now it's on film, and opponents will be ready to torch the Pats if they try it again.

Negative Nancy much? The Pats always change their gameplan to suit their opponents anyways. It's not like our defensive coaches lack imagination and will suddenly go full boat blitz all the time on every down against any team.

They just made half-time adjustments that worked VERY VERY WELL. Why is it that instead of finding the silver lining in a great turnaround and second half defensive performance leading to a WIN posters here try to turn it into a negative instead??

IE instead of saying - our coaches made great halftime adjustments that led to 6 sacks and 3 forced turnovers by the Dolphins it turns into - our opponents will be ready to torch the Pats if they try that again next time... *shakes head*
 
I dunno how you can still say the run d was bad last week. If an offense runs 200times and gets 200yds did they do a good job?
 
The return of Talib and Kelly will help - Kelly directly, Talib indirectly by letting our safeties creep a little closer to the LOS or play in more of a "rover" role.
 
Our run d seems to confuse teams. They think they can run it down our throats and then in crucial moments they can't even gain a yard against us.
 
Chris Jones needs someone bigger & better than Joey Vellano next to him.
 
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