Anyone else still think Samuel is overrated

[PatsandTrojans55]

Exactly. The Giants front four was so good, Brady didn't have time to exploit their weak secondary.

Especially the way the Pats employ their bend don't break zone, I feel like CB may be the least important position on the defensive side of the field. They just need an average CB who can keep the player in front of them.

As I said above, one of their biggest improvements is going to come in the fact that Meriweather has greater range and speed than whoever's place he takes in the starting lineup.

You know it's funny you should make a comment. With this post. CB is the least important position on our defense according to you but according to Belchick it's worth at least 7.79 million for 1 season. Sorry I know what I'm talking about and not all emotional like the typical FAN.

 

[Deus Irae]

Another one of our "Emotional" fans who is blind. Trufant as a previous poster stated is not that great and Asomugha is talented but his numbers are more favorable because the Raiders can't stop the run so why pass? Your CLEARLY blinded by misinformation period.

Ahhh... the joy of comedy. Well, just for you, a partial list of players who are arguably better than Samuel:

Woodson
Harris
McKenzie
Bailey
Asomugha
Trufant
Cromartie
Rashean Mathis
Chris McAlister
Ronde Barber

.... and more


Heck, since you want to be smarmy, I'll toss in Hobbs, too.

 

[Real World]

I still think Samuel is overated. Does anyone have access to any statistics about how Samuel does compared to other cornerbacks in the league in terms of QB rating against, completion percentage against, touchdown ratio against etc. I remember being really unimpressed by his numbers when I heard them and I also remember Hobbs having better numbers. I could be wrong and I would love someone to prove me so.

I think Samuel is a good corner, but he's not a shut down corner. He gambles alot, and picks off a lot of passes. He's good, but he's not worth the money he's going to get.

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

Ahhh... the joy of comedy. Well, just for you, a partial list of players who are arguably better than Samuel:

Woodson
Harris
McKenzie
Bailey
Asomugha
Trufant
Cromartie
Rashean Mathis
Chris McAlister
Ronde Barber

.... and many more




Heck, since you want to be smarmy, I'll toss in Hobbs, too.

WOW!!!!!!! Hobbs to man is he underpaid.

Going by your logic (EMOTIONAL Fan) Belichick and Pioli are some idiots who clearly don't know football.
Let's see Seymour Top-5 D-Line (Paid) (Fans say Overrated)
Deion Branch not worth it (Traded)
Asante Top-5 corner paid $7.79 million for 1 season the average of that's right the TOP 5 at his position so says "THE BEST" organization in Pro Sports. (Fans say Overrated)

I love the FAN.
By the way that list is too funny to go over.

 

[BradyManny]

You know it's funny you should make a comment. With this post. CB is the least important position on our defense according to you but according to Belchick it's worth at least 7.79 million for 1 season. Sorry I know what I'm talking about and not all emotional like the typical FAN.

Yawn.

Alright, we'll see how important Samuel is to them this offseason. Of course, he was franchised for the very reason that they didn't think he was worth the long term deal Samuel thought he deserved and they had the luxury of cap room to spend on him.

But thanks for unknowingly proving my point and disproving your own, but what do I know, I'm just a horribly emotional Pats fans. I gotta go take my meds.

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

Yawn.

Alright, we'll see how important Samuel is to them this offseason. Of course, he was franchised for the very reason that they didn't think he was worth the long term deal Samuel thought he deserved and they had the luxury of cap room to spend on him.

But thanks for unknowingly proving my point and disproving your own, but what do I know, I'm just a horribly emotional Pats fans. I gotta go take my meds.

Nice logic. So IF the Patriots don't get Samuel signed you will say "See he's overrated and they didn't want him" Funny......

Now reality, They franchised him to buy some time in hopes of making a deal. Even if he gets a bigger financial deal and takes it over the Pats deal that has NO significance to the value they put on Asante because they have let that be known VERY CLEAR last off season.

The Pats don't throw away cap space on anybody period.
They feel Asante Samuel IS a TOP-5 corner in the NFL. And they Proved that last year with the franchise tag. They knew the starting point for an Asante deal is now set at $7.79 million a season. And they set that bar.

It's not hard to understand unless your an emotional fan.

To say Asante is "Overrated" or that he's not a TOP-5 Corner is saying BB/Pioli are incompentent and don't know what they're doing. Period

 

[sebman2112]

just to respond to a few other post...

I don't like the idea of Randall Gay taking over for Asante. The more he played in 2007, the more I noticed his weaknesses and mistakes. I'd rather see NE bring in some first day draft pick(s), and a decent free agent CB to try and fill Asante's spot.

I'll have to first disclose that I've had a dislike for their current coverage schemes. See, I like a more physical brand of football, and I like CB's up at the LOS jamming WR's off their routes and timing. I know the rule changes over the past few years have effected some of your defenses ability to be really physical in coverage, but you don't have to almost completely drop any kind of physical coverage involving your CB's. I'm not at all saying that I'm more intelligent than Pees or BB, but that I liked the coverage schemes BB used to run a lot more, and I think they shouldn't just limit themselves to simply playing that soft zone. Also, Romeo still has his CB's jam at Cleveland, and a lot of other teams started heavily jamming and bumping NE's WR's as the season went along.

I've wondered if part of their using this soft zone was to play into Asante's strengths (jumping routes/risk taking). I also see Asante as more of a finesse CB, who's not really good at jamming a WR. So, if NE had tried to run a more physically oriented coverage they would have been trying to fit a square peg (Asante) into a round hole.

This leads me to wonder (I've been thinking about this for over a year now) if they just might switch their defense up a bit, if Asante leaves?

So, what if they used a coverage scheme that was more suited to Hobbs strengths? I'm not saying they should completely drop that soft zone, as I do think it's useful in some games/circumstances, and I'd like to see how Ellis does with help from the safety over the top. But,I'd like to see them add some other wrinkles back into the secondary.

I actually believe their secondary could improve over the next season or two, if they were to make that adjustment, bring in a first day draft pick who can play zone & be physical, and bring in a decent free agent at CB. I should note that Richardson also has the ability to play physical, and with Meriweather and Rodney's physicality it would make for a pretty tough secondary. Meriweather's overall game (speed, coverage, hitting, tackling), should also upgrade NE's secondary in 2008 as he continues to develop.

 

[BradyManny]

Nice logic. So IF the Patriots don't get Samuel signed you will say "See he's overrated and they didn't want him" Funny......

Now reality, They franchised him to buy some time in hopes of making a deal. Even if he gets a bigger financial deal and takes it over the Pats deal that has NO significance to the value they put on Asante because they have let that be known VERY CLEAR last off season.

The Pats don't throw away cap space on anybody period.
They feel Asante Samuel IS a TOP-5 corner in the NFL. And they Proved that last year with the franchise tag. They knew the starting point for an Asante deal is now set at $7.79 million a season. And they set that bar.

It's not hard to understand unless your an emotional fan.

To say Asante is "Overrated" or that he's not a TOP-5 Corner is saying BB/Pioli are incompentent and don't know what they're doing. Period

You're either between the ages of 11-13 or Asante Samuel's mother, significant other or agent.

 

[mgcolby]

WOW!!!!!!! Hobbs to man is he underpaid.

Going by your logic (EMOTIONAL Fan) Belichick and Pioli are some idiots who clearly don't know football.
Let's see Seymour Top-5 D-Line (Paid) (Fans say Overrated)
Deion Branch not worth it (Traded)
Asante Top-5 corner paid $7.79 million for 1 season the average of that's right the TOP 5 at his position so says "THE BEST" organization in Pro Sports. (Fans say Overrated)

I love the FAN.
By the way that list is too funny to go over.

So you are not a fan? Because using your logic ALL FANS believe Seymour is overrated! What position do you play?

Seymour is not overrated but due to multiple injuries has not produced to the value of his contract, thus far. But you pay big money for unique guys!

Deion and a little help from the Mangina forced the Pats hand along with an agent that couldn't shut up. Bad example!

An abundance of cap space, no other FA's and their hesitation to give the "half year wonder" a long term deal led to the tag.

And your interpretation of the tag is flawed, they are not saying he is a Top 5 guy at his position. They recognize that he was a valuable member of their defense who happened to be a free agent and the system is configured to 1) let him walk without receiving anything for him; 2) Tag him and let him prove he is worth the money he is asking and/or work on a long term deal. While only impacting the current year's cap and not jeopardizing future cap space. The top 5 money is a mere concession for the player, not a concrete indication of his value/talent in comparison to every player in the NFL.

I would go into why I think Asante is overrated but the majority of them have been covered in this thread by emotional fans unlike your self!

 

[Deus Irae]

WOW!!!!!!! Hobbs to man is he underpaid.

Going by your logic (EMOTIONAL Fan) Belichick and Pioli are some idiots who clearly don't know football.
Let's see Seymour Top-5 D-Line (Paid) (Fans say Overrated)
Deion Branch not worth it (Traded)
Asante Top-5 corner paid $7.79 million for 1 season the average of that's right the TOP 5 at his position so says "THE BEST" organization in Pro Sports. (Fans say Overrated)

I love the FAN.
By the way that list is too funny to go over.

My bad. I didn't realize you were a troll. I thought you were just clueless. Now I know better.

 

[BradyManny]

This leads me to wonder (I've been thinking about this for over a year now) if they just might switch their defense up a bit, if Asante leaves?

I think Hobbs would be successful in a more physical defense. He might be undersized, but he's strong for that size and has good man coverage skills. It also seems to me that Meriweather's coverage skills, and improved range would allow them to play the CBs up a little closer at the LOS. I also think if Ty Law were to come back, such a change would make some sense.

 

[jcdavey]

Ahhh... the joy of comedy. Well, just for you, a partial list of players who are arguably better than Samuel:

Woodson
Harris
McKenzie
Bailey
Asomugha
Trufant
Cromartie
Rashean Mathis
Chris McAlister
Ronde Barber

.... and more


Heck, since you want to be smarmy, I'll toss in Hobbs, too.

wow a pats fan who thinks cro is better than asante, you must be of the opinion that samuel is a goner

 

[jcdavey]

I think Samuel is a good corner, but he's not a shut down corner. He gambles alot, and picks off a lot of passes. He's good, but he's not worth the money he's going to get.

he's a top 5 corner in the nfl, and he's better than nate clements has ever been

he's literally an all pro

this guy really has turned into the pats equivalent of sd's marlon mccree

one major mistake and you're throwing him out like trash, at least with mccree he's played very inconsistant

samuel is a freaking all pro cb literally lol

 

[BradyManny]

What are you basing your analysis of Samuel on? Don't get me wrong, I think Samuel is a good player. I just don't think he's worth what he wants, and I don't think he's going to be that hard to replace in our system.

 

[Pats726]

he's a top 5 corner in the nfl, and he's better than nate clements has ever been

he's literally an all pro

this guy really has turned into the pats equivalent of sd's marlon mccree

one major mistake and you're throwing him out like trash, at least with mccree he's played very inconsistant

samuel is a freaking all pro cb literally lol

he is good but I do not believe THAT good...I do not think anyone is throwing him out in the trash..I think As will go for the large bucks and it will not be here..they will NOT overpay..I think it is that simple..

 

[bradmahn]

he's a top 5 corner in the nfl, and he's better than nate clements has ever been

he's literally an all pro

this guy really has turned into the pats equivalent of sd's marlon mccree

one major mistake and you're throwing him out like trash, at least with mccree he's played very inconsistant

samuel is a freaking all pro cb literally lol

You'll find a lot of people who were skeptical of Asante from last year until now. I am very much in agreement with sebman regarding Asante, his abilities, the coverages the Patriots play, and the play of Hobbs. I think Asante is a "playmaker," but I don't think his abilities are worth the money that he will command. For the money he will be paid he doesn't shadow the number one receivers and his propensity to make the big play (an interception) can lead to the offense making a big play when he fails. He's a good player who most definitely has benefited from being allowed to showcase his strengths in this defense with designed opportunities to gamble.

The way I see it, Asante Samuel's play (his ability to jump routes and anticipate throws) almost requires a second line of defense (a safety over the top); for the money he will command, Samuel should be able to be left on an island while still maintaining his Pro Bowl calibre play, I don't think that will happen, and I don't think the Patriots staff feels that way either.

 

[jcdavey]

You'll find a lot of people who were skeptical of Asante from last year until now. I am very much in agreement with sebman regarding Asante, his abilities, the coverages the Patriots play, and the play of Hobbs. I think Asante is a "playmaker," but I don't think his abilities are worth the money that he will command. For the money he will be paid he doesn't shadow the number one receivers and his propensity to make the big play (an interception) can lead to the offense making a big play when he fails. He's a good player who most definitely has benefited from being allowed to showcase his strengths in this defense with designed opportunities to gamble.

The way I see it, Asante Samuel's play (his ability to jump routes and anticipate throws) almost requires a second line of defense (a safety over the top); for the money he will command, Samuel should be able to be left on an island while still maintaining his Pro Bowl calibre play, I don't think that will happen, and I don't think the Patriots staff feels that way either.

what if they do feel that way and decide to pay him that way?

just talking what ifs

 

[bradmahn]

what if they do feel that way and decide to pay him that way?

just talking what ifs

I would be kind of disappointed because I think they can use the money in a better way and, just as sebman has said, I like a more physical style of defense. That being said, if Belichick and Pioli feel he is the best way to spend 60+ mil I will have confidence that they feel that's the best way to build their defense. I am skeptical that he will return.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

I think he is a good cornerback, but not worth braking the bank over. He is not very physical at the line. He always plays 5-10 yards off the line of scrimmage. I would rather pay a guy who can bump and disrupt recievers at the line. This has been missed greatly since Ty Law, Otis Smith and Tryrone Poole left the team.

 

[d.finn.patsfan.]

I think Hobbs would be successful in a more physical defense. He might be undersized, but he's strong for that size and has good man coverage skills. It also seems to me that Meriweather's coverage skills, and improved range would allow them to play the CBs up a little closer at the LOS. I also think if Ty Law were to come back, such a change would make some sense.

:rocker:been thinking the exact same thing