Antonio Brown

[Triumph]

Would you say the same thing for Ryan Izzo if he was cut under the exact same circumstances as Antonio Brown?

Yes

Gordon was granted a 2nd chance.

 

[maust]

Again, no player has ever been placed on the EL over civil allegations or investigations related to civil allegations. What you are proposing would be a first.

After the video was released Kareem Hunt was placed on the exempt list without any criminal charges to allow the league to investigate so it's hardly a stretch to equate the circumstances.

 

[venecol]

Here's something that I don't see being discussed.

Before Brown can be signed by ANY team, the league will have to finish their investigation into the accuser's allegations. The league has heard from the accuser, but before that investigation can be finished it has to hear from Brown. But here's the thing. Brown, to this point, has REFUSED to present his side to the league. He has steadfastly refused to set a date to meet with them, and not for want of trying. Thus the league can't finish their investigation and Brown can't be signed.

So why hasn't he cooperated if he really wants to play My guess is that he really doesn't. The union has pretty much told him that he's going to get paid for NOT playing, so why work up a sweat when you can PRETEND to be the victim in all of this. It is just speculation on my part, but can you come up with anything better. Why won't the guy even make the attempt at defending himself?

I wasn't aware Brown was refusing to cooperate or be interviewed. Can you provide a source for this? If that is the case, that alone may be a reason to suspend him.

 

[venecol]

But as I mentioned, no one has refused to me with the league in order to refute the allegations either. Pretty curious, don't you think?

Yes that would be curious, but honestly I wasn't aware of this. I thought the league hadn't gotten around to interviewing him.

 

[maust]

With all due respect, it seems that you are the one mixing suspension with EL. In the 1st 2 sentences you talk about avoiding EL due to precedent and then use an example of a suspension. They are not the same.

Then in the last 2 sentences, you say "avoid suspension over civil suit" but placing him on EL (over the same matter) should be allowed.

My points are:

1. No one has ever been placed on the EL over civil matters, and thus NFL probably will not do so now (contrary to your view);
2. NFL can suspend him if they choose almost for any reason (including your ex. of pattern of behaviour, whatever that means). Yet you find a suspension to be a slippery slope w/o an investigation, so you go full circle to justify being placed on EL, because of the investigation.

I respectfully disagree. Let them conduct their investigation and at the conclusion suspend him for whatever reason they come up with. In the meantime let him play since placing him on EL would open Pandora's Box.

You misconstrued my posts. However it is completely academic as an unsigned player can't be 'exempted'

 

[venecol]

After the video was released Kareem Hunt was placed on the exempt list without any criminal charges to allow the league to investigate so it's hardly a stretch to equate the circumstances.

I'll have to research this, I thought his team suspended him (not questioning your veracity or if you can provide a link?).

 

[Marqui]

I wasn't aware Brown was refusing to cooperate or be interviewed. Can you provide a source for this? If that is the case, that alone may be a reason to suspend him.

Thats big news to me as well. It would also explain his self destructive behavior with his last 3 teams, he's basically scamming them. He signs with a team for millions in guaranteed money then acts horrible forcing the team to release him and he goes home and collects his guaranteed millions.

 

[maust]

I'll have to research this, I thought his team suspended him (not questioning your veracity or if you can provide a link?).

I couldn't understand why anyone would say they wouldn't place him on the exempt list when they had in fact done it before for an investigation. Perhaps you should have had the same amount of doubt with people that said it hadn't happened before as you do for folks that said it has and done some research?

NFL places Kareem Hunt on Commissioner Exempt List

"The NFL has placed Kareem Hunt of the Kansas City Chiefs on the Commissioner Exempt list, and as a result, he may not practice, play or attend games. The NFL's investigation, which began immediately following the incident in February, will include a review of the new information that was made public today."

 

[patfanken]

I wasn't aware Brown was refusing to cooperate or be interviewed. Can you provide a source for this? If that is the case, that alone may be a reason to suspend him.

It was from a PFT story that made it plain that the NFL had tried to get with Brown, but wasn't getting any cooperation. And like so much of what describes the NFL, they aren't going to go out of their way to get Brown to come in. If he doesn't come in, then they don't have to make any messy decisions, so they aren't going to chase him.

Still it's curious that Brown hasn't DEMANDED a meeting, so he can get past the Exempt list hurdle. Sorry I can't be more specific. Just too lazy to do a google search, and Brown doesn't deserve my energy. Let me know if you find any info to the contrary, but until you do, I'll stand by my recollection.

 

[patfanken]

Yes that would be curious, but honestly I wasn't aware of this. I thought the league hadn't gotten around to interviewing him.

Yeah, me too, until I saw that article where it clearly stated the league had made an attempt to bring him in, and were either rebuffed or ignored.

 

[LJRomanoff]

Assuming innocence till the guilt is proven is the bedrock of the justice system. Kraft is guilty of breaking the law.

He is? When did that happen?

Brown is innocent since the police said there’s no case to pursue. What Brown is “accused” of is irrelevant if the police say there is no case. Anyone can be “accused” of anything.

I haven't made any argument about Brown's guilt or innocence. If anything I lean towards this whole thing being a shakedown, but that's beside the point. There's no moral equivalence between what Kraft's dating preferences are or what he's been accused of and what Brown has been accused of, therefore no hypocrisy.

 

[LJRomanoff]

What Kraft was doing is illegal. There is video of it. Brown is being accused of doing something illegal, what is stunning are people declaring him guilty when there is a high likelihood that he’s innocent of any wrong doing. Then there are those people saying he should have paid the accuser to keep quiet even if he was innocent.

None of that has anything to do with what I am talking about.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Gordon was granted a 2nd chance.

Gordon absolutely let the team down last year with whatever he did. I’m quite shocked he was given a second chance.

 

[venecol]

I couldn't understand why anyone would say they wouldn't place him on the exempt list when they had in fact done it before for an investigation. Perhaps you should have had the same amount of doubt with people that said it hadn't happened before as you do for folks that said it has and done some research?

NFL places Kareem Hunt on Commissioner Exempt List

"The NFL has placed Kareem Hunt of the Kansas City Chiefs on the Commissioner Exempt list, and as a result, he may not practice, play or attend games. The NFL's investigation, which began immediately following the incident in February, will include a review of the new information that was made public today."

After reading the article, this is not the same situation as AB at all:

1. The NFL began investigating this incident previously without placing Hunt on the EL;
2. There was a police investigation;
3. This was not a civil allegation case, but rather an assault type investigation conducted by cops;
4. Only after the video came out with overwhelming evidence that he kicked a girl on the ground did NFL place him on EL, but the investigation had already started, in fact NFL tried to obtain video and hotel wouldn't give it to them.
5. I seem to recall now that during initial investigation, Hunt never mentioned any of what was later shown on the video to the NFL, so he lied to them, thus upon video release he was placed on EL and immediately released by the team.

This is not the same situation as the AB case at all! Nice try though.

 

[Biffins]

if he settles the cases he will be suspended, just as Roethlisberger was.

That’s a good point. If settling the case is taken as tacit admission of guilt then might as well not settle.

 

[maust]

This is not the same situation as the AB case at all! Nice try though.

Hill was placed on the exempt list without criminal charges for the stated purpose of investigating. It is exactly what I said it was, creating clear precedent that the exempt list can be used during a league investigation. It is purely your desire to prevaricate that drives seeing it any other way.

Again, it is all moot until/unless he signs somewhere.

 

[Biffins]

If he had he’d be playing on NE right now, would be $4.5mil richer just from NE right now, wouldn’t have lost endorsements which took more millions out of his pocket, etc.

So yeah - paying the $1.6mil would have been an extremely wise business decision.

you’re justifying extortion

 

[Biffins]

You are making things up and should really stop. Kraft has been accused of prostitution, not found guilty. AB hasn't been criminally accused of anything and has not been investigated in Florida where the claimed rape happened.

Give me a break. I am well aware that Kraft was let off on a technicality about the abuse of the warrant and improper means in which the evidence was gathered. What we know is Kraft acted in a manner than would have constituted breaking the law, and the video of the incident Kraft is desperately trying to suppress or destroy or retrieve. Fact remains that Kraft was knowingly engaged in an illegal activity.

AB on the other hand is pure heresay. He’s been accused but the police has deemed the case to have no merit.

 

[Biffins]

At no point did I say, absent a finding in the league's investigation, he shouldn't be allowed to play. The discussion wasn't about should be able to play but rather will be allowed to via avoiding the exempt list due to some vague notion of precedent. Again, Ezekiel Elliott was suspended without criminal finding, in part due to a 'pattern of behavior.' It seems a dispassionate view on this subject is getting harder and harder to come by. For instance I think the furniture heaving incident was insanely dangerous and should have resulted in criminal charges and threatening a GM with violence is more than enough to justify a suspension. That said, regardless of sensibilities, the truth is there were no criminal charges and no suspension and therefore if he were on a team I think he should be playing regardless of them happening. The slippery slope of a suspension over the civil suit and texts without the findings of an investigation in hand must be avoided but the league placing him on the exempt list during an investigation is certainly within their purview.

Who gives a crap about league findings or league investigations? Haven’t we already learnt yet how nonsense they are. If the police say there’s no case, it’s enough for me

 

[Biffins]

The issue is how long he will play for. The fear is they bring him back, he messes up, and he's out of here during the tough part of the schedule. Going by his checkered past, it would only be a matter of time before he messes up again.

you’re right, he only lasted 8 seasons with a single team building a HoF career. It’s obvious he has no capacity to stick and is a journeyman.