Another Taboo Elephant! [Mac Jones playing well in SF]

[rochrist]

The 2021 QB class has been a disaster… you didn’t refute that nor could you if you tried.

Lawrence was the first QB taken in 2021… you’re having trouble following a simple conversation. Sounds like a “you” problem.

Bullsht… he was a first rounder. No need to dance around. He’s a backup…

Dak Prescott, Drew Brees, a lot of guys were taken outside of the first round. And the best QB in the entire NFL Patrick Mahomes wasn’t a top five pick. So give me a break… Trevor Lawrence isn’t a generational talent, he was #1 overall.

He’s not a starter, he’s a backup. The past two games he has thrown 3 interceptions and done Mac Jones things. The more he plays the more of a liability he is.

That team would be stupid.

Ryan Leaf, Jarmarcus Russell, Akili Smith… shall I keep reciting all the QB’s drafted in the top three who sucked? Draft position isn’t why Mac Jones sucks, it just explains why the first rounder wasted on him sucked.

It’s a team sport. Record is a team stat.

He scored zero TD’s and had an interception, they won in spite of Mac.

He's been pretty much the definition of mediocre this year. He's just fortunate in that he dropped into a system with an all time QB whisperer as coach and a high-functioning team. An 89 rating is not anything to write home about.

you choose to ignore the fact that Mac has started and won 4 games and has counting stats superior to Lawrence, who is also a starter
Mac also has stats that far out pace half the leagues starters.
but hey, why quibble over facts, right?

He's 'won' four games with bog-standard mediocre stats, and yes, he's doing better than one of the biggest busts of the past decade. Congrats. He'll be back on the bench as soon as Purdy is healthy.

 

[TheRainMaker]

wozzy is oblivious to facts and stats and will call you a liar

At the end of the day, Mac is an extremely limited passer. In fact, I'm quite shocked teams still have allowed him to check down as much as he has to McCaffery because he really doesn't like to push it far. The main factor in that is the interior of the 49ers O-line has been bad since the Jimmy G days. Pockets are routinely getting pushed back in the QB's faces which is one of the main reason's they've lost both their Super Bowl's to the Chiefs. If the line can give him a clean pocket, he can hit the intermediate throws.

Personally I like that he spends the time to try to clarify his point of view, unlike a certain dearly departed poster who was pure troll...

I'm curious as to who you are referring to.

 

[denverpatsfan]

 

[NFL Mystique]

Mac has made himself some extra cash with his playing time, I believe he just hit a $550,000 incentive and more are on the way, as it looks like Purdy, isn't coming back anytime soon. That turf toe is a serious injury with a funny name.

https://www.sfgate.com/49ers/article/latest-49ers-brock-purdy-injury-update-concerning-21109195.php

That may end up being a very bad contract.

 

[mgteich]

We picked the 5th QB in a terrible class. We got the playoffs in his rookie year and is now a career backup. Jones was a good pick then, and a good pick now, in 100% hindsight.

Many here think that he wouldn't have been any better with a couple more years of Josh and perhaps a better supporting cast. OK. I disagree. We lucked out. Bill and then Mayo gave us some awful seasons and then set us up with Drake, Gonzo, and lots and lots of cap cash and good picks in the draft.

We were so AWFUL that Vrabel was able to turn us around in half a season. We WERE awful, but we had our QB, Gonzo, Barmore and the resources to succeed (we might even add Jones, Boutte, Douglas and Baringer). Yup we had the talent of a 4-win team with a few worth keeping.

 

[rkarp1]

He's been pretty much the definition of mediocre this year. He's just fortunate in that he dropped into a system with an all time QB whisperer as coach and a high-functioning team. An 89 rating is not anything to write home about.

He's 'won' four games with bog-standard mediocre stats, and yes, he's doing better than one of the biggest busts of the past decade. Congrats. He'll be back on the bench as soon as Purdy is healthy.

but isn't the back up QB's job to win games while the starter is out?
Mac has done exactly that. with a very injured SF team, and battling injury himself. that said, he not only is out playing one of the biggest busts of the past decade, he is also doing better than half the QB's in the league

2025 NFL Season Leaders Total QBR | ESPN

Visit ESPN to view NFL Total QBR for the current and previous seasons

www.espn.com

 

[203Pat]

That may end up being a very bad contract.

It was the minute he signed it. Purdy is a complete JAG and no different from Mac.

 

[denverpatsfan]

Didn't Purdy play in a Super Bowl??
That's not a JAG

 

[Bill Lee]

Didn't Purdy play in a Super Bowl??
That's not a JAG

So did Trent Dilfer. It happens.
I think Purdy is a hair better than Mac Jones, but I wouldn't sign either to big contracts.
Yet SF did sign him to a big contract, so out there in the real world Purdy is a starter.
Gee No Smith got a big contract from SEA and LV and was a starter but IMO should not have been.
There should be a term for "is a starter but probably shouldn't be" so we can stop arguing.
Yet there's the old joke that the person who graduates last from medical school is still a doctor...

 

[203Pat]

Didn't Purdy play in a Super Bowl??
That's not a JAG

Trent Dilfer, Nick Foles, Jeff Hostetler, Stan Humpries, Neil O'Donnell, Tony Eason, and Rex Grossman. All guys who started for Super Bowl teams and were JAGs.

 

[denverpatsfan]

Trent Dilfer, Nick Foles, Jeff Hostetler, Stan Humpries, Neil O'Donnell, Tony Eason, and Rex Grossman. All guys who started for Super Bowl teams and were JAGs.

There is a statue of Nick Foles in Philly. Definitely not a JAG thanks to BB...

 

[NFL Mystique]

It was the minute he signed it. Purdy is a complete JAG and no different from Mac.

Exactly.

The 49ers do a good job with ok QB's. But inevitably that QB needs to make plays against superior QB's. They never could. They made a huge mistake not getting Brady in 2020. If Brady is on that 2023 49ers squad, the SB is a blowout by mid third quarter. 49ers win easily. Better yet, they beat the Rams and Bengals with Brady in 2021.

 

[Bill Lee]

There is a statue of Nick Foles in Philly. Definitely not a JAG thanks to BB...

Tony Eason had that good run of form in '85 too. If we weren't playing the '85 Bears perhaps he'd have a statue as well. Not sure what it means in the big picture though. Nice place for birds to ****?

 

[NFL Mystique]

There is a statue of Nick Foles in Philly. Definitely not a JAG thanks to BB...

I think Bill's past success didn't cost him his job. And because it was a CB he benched. If he had benched Brady for Hoyer, Bill is fired the next day and never allowed in NE again. With Butler in there, still no guarantee they win.

Bill made up for it somewhat with his performance the next year. But a threepeat would have been historic.

 

[Bill Lee]

There should be a term for "is a starter but probably shouldn't be" so we can stop arguing.

@203Pat I guess the best term I can come up with guys for like Mac Jones, Gee No Smith, Brock Purdy, etc are "replacement level starters". You play them if you have to, but if you can find a better replacement you play that other guy instead.

I think it's pretty distinct from guys you simply can't see as ever being a starter. For me our own Josh Dobbs falls into that bucket. I don't know why he still has a job here or elsewhere, other than perhaps he's a good character guy. If he has to play significant games, IMO our season is over. I don't see him taking a team 4-1 like Mac Jones is doing in SF. I hope it never comes to that, and if it does, I hope I'm wrong.

Some of these QBs like Purdy, Trevor Lawrence and Tua Turndaballova are on big contracts, but that shouldn't really be a factor, they should be replaced if their teams find a better player. They get the big contracts because their team hasn't found the better player, yet, and they had no one else when their contracts were up. Late period Russell Wilson falls into the replacement level bucket too. Huge contract in Denver but needed to be replaced, then the same thing happened in Pittsburgh and now New York as well.

All of these are distinct from "franchise level starters". That's when you are confident that you have a guy that can take you deep into the playoffs if not all the way. Some people seem to equate "starter" with "franchise level starter" but I see two different categories, "replacement level starter" vs "franchise level starter". Their "backup" is my "replacement level starter" because we do see a lot of these guys starting game after game after game so calling them a backup doesn't work for me.

And yes, my thinking is heavily influenced by watching a lot of podcasts such as ATN, HTC, Mina Kimes, etc.

 

[The Gr8est]

So did Trent Dilfer. It happens.
I think Purdy is a hair better than Mac Jones, but I wouldn't sign either to big contracts.
Yet SF did sign him to a big contract, so out there in the real world Purdy is a starter.
Gee No Smith got a big contract from SEA and LV and was a starter but IMO should not have been.
There should be a term for "is a starter but probably shouldn't be" so we can stop arguing.
Yet there's the old joke that the person who graduates last from medical school is still a doctor...

That is another benefit from getting an elite QB. A starting QB is going to get a huge contract, whether you are Tua or Maye.

We are much better off investing in one who looks to actually be worth it.

 

[203Pat]

There is a statue of Nick Foles in Philly. Definitely not a JAG thanks to BB...

He won a Super Bowl because our defense threw up on itself and Bill benched our starting corner but he is still a JAG in the same way all the other guys I listed are. Foles didn't build on that Super Bowl he just kept bouncing around the league as a high end backup/low end starter he always was.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

We picked the 5th QB in a terrible class. We got the playoffs in his rookie year and is now a career backup. Jones was a good pick then, and a good pick now, in 100% hindsight.

Although that's only in hindsight; at the time, everyone thought it would be an amazing class. [Semi-OT: I still can't believe that many NFL analysts thought that the solution to the Patriots' QB woes in 2024 was Justin Fields.]

 

[upstater1]

I think Bill's past success didn't cost him his job. And because it was a CB he benched. If he had benched Brady for Hoyer, Bill is fired the next day and never allowed in NE again. With Butler in there, still no guarantee they win.

Bill made up for it somewhat with his performance the next year. But a threepeat would have been historic.

It's bizarre to think the benching of a mediocre CB would have those ramifications. As for the D's performance the next year, it was stellar.

Malcolm Butler is not all he was cracked up to be.

If we seriously have an owner that would fire a coach for that, then we have one of the lousiest owners in all of football.

 

[203Pat]

@203Pat I guess the best term I can come up with guys for like Mac Jones, Gee No Smith, Brock Purdy, etc are "replacement level starters". You play them if you have to, but if you can find a better replacement you play that other guy instead.

I think it's pretty distinct from guys you simply can't see as ever being a starter. For me our own Josh Dobbs falls into that bucket. I don't know why he still has a job here or elsewhere, other than perhaps he's a good character guy. If he has to play significant games, IMO our season is over. I don't see him taking a team 4-1 like Mac Jones is doing in SF. I hope it never comes to that, and if it does, I hope I'm wrong.

Some of these QBs like Purdy, Trevor Lawrence and Tua Turndaballova are on big contracts, but that shouldn't really be a factor, they should be replaced if their teams find a better player. They get the big contracts because their team hasn't found the better player, yet, and they had no one else when their contracts were up. Late period Russell Wilson falls into the replacement level bucket too. Huge contract in Denver but needed to be replaced, then the same thing happened in Pittsburgh and now New York as well.

All of these are distinct from "franchise level starters". That's when you are confident that you have a guy that can take you deep into the playoffs if not all the way. Some people seem to equate "starter" with "franchise level starter" but I see two different categories, "replacement level starter" vs "franchise level starter". Their "backup" is my "replacement level starter" because we do see a lot of these guys starting game after game after game so calling them a backup doesn't work for me.

And yes, my thinking is heavily influenced by watching a lot of podcasts such as ATN, HTC, Mina Kimes, etc.

I always go back to the old "Dalton Scale" from the ATN podcast. Andy Dalton in the early to mid-2010's was the perfect example of the line of delineation for starting quarterbacks. Anyone better than him you could win with and potentially win a Super Bowl with if the supporting cast was good enough. Anything worse than Dalton and you should be actively looking to replace your QB.

The group usually excluded rookies and second year QB's and would judge the rest of the starters and there always seemed to be a gray area on the contract factor. Cheap guys close to the Dalton line would seemingly get nudged above it while expensive guys hovering by the line (Lawrence and Tua being two current examples) usually got bumped below it because they were paid like franchise quarterbacks but weren't performing as such.

I may be a more harsh grader than most but I think Purdy is the prime candidate for the modern day Dalton Scale.

Excluding rookies and second year guys:

Mahomes
Allen
Jackson
Stafford
Burrow
Herbert
Hurts
Prescott
Mayfield
Love
Stroud
Goff
Rodgers

----Purdy-----

Lawrence
Kyler Murray
Geno Smith
Bryce Young
Tua
Fields

And the two very debatable ones on either side of the Purdy line would be Daniel Jones and Sam Darnold. Jones is obviously playing better than he ever has in his career but it is a small sample size. Darnold it is becoming increasing harder to put him below the line after a very good year in Minnesota and now a solid start in Seattle.