Another SD breakdown

[mgcolby]

Just FYI to some of the Pats fans here...

I know it's a common perception that our receiving corps is mediocre, but due to injuries Rivers discovered Vincent Jackson and he's been huge for us of late. In the last 4 games he had 14 receptions for 286 yards and 3 TD's.

He's 6'5 238 lbs with deep speed and good hands.

Combine Jackson with getting McCardell and Parker both healthy at the same time for the first time since mid-season and our receiver corps is looking a lot better to me than it has.

I don't doubt your recieving corp at all and in fact I think Parker is very underrated. I doubt Rivers ability to progress through his reads in crunch time and not to try and force it to Gates.

 

[mgcolby]

Yes, but most of those games were out of reach, and then we gave up a score or two at the end that made them look more respectable--vs. the Rams, Browns, Titans, Bills and Cardinals.

Not against the Bills. The Cardinals yes and I didn't watch the other games and/or don't remember them.

 

[DagoTom]

I don't doubt your recieving corp at all and in fact I think Parker is very underrated. I doubt Rivers ability to progress through his reads in crunch time and not to try and force it to Gates.

Well, the defenses that have given PR problems this year have mostly done it with straight man coverage. They would man-up on our receivers, bracket Gates, and spy LT. This was a pretty effective defense because it allowed defenses to keep eight in the box for run defense. Now, when a defense plays man that's when receivers have to win the one-on-one matchup and get seperation. McCardell and Parker weren't consistently doing that. Now, was that a product of them being dinged up? (K-man--hamstring; Parker--Neck) I guess that depends on what you want to believe.

When teams have gone to zone coverage against us PR has shredded it. I mean...like ugly shredding. It's not that he's had trouble reading zones--it's that he's had receivers who weren't getting open initially against man coverage and then he starts to press.

This trend has been evident in three games... our second game against Oakland (who, by the way, has a very good defense,) our second game against the Chiefs and at Seattle. Now I'm not sure what happened in the Oakland game. Our passing game just did nothing. Against the Chiefs and the Seahawks we couldn't get McCardell and Parker healthy and they were gimping around at 80%. So Rivers struggled.

But a few points; PR has never started pressing to the point of giving up a tidal wave of turnovers. His worst game was against KC where he had two picks, but one of those was off a deflection. And in every game, even the ones where he really struggled, he made plays in the 4th quarter. It was pretty impressive to see, actually. No matter how bad he'd looked throughout the game he always made plays in the 4th quarter. And Vincent Jackson has started to show an ability to make plays against man coverage and has even beaten double coverage on a few deep plays (one of which he dropped, grrr!.)

Anyway, to make a long story only slightly longer, my feeling with PR is if you can manage real tight man coverage he may have problems. But he's been very good against zone defenses this year.

 

[mgcolby]

Well, the defenses that have given PR problems this year have mostly done it with straight man coverage. They would man-up on our receivers, bracket Gates, and spy LT. This was a pretty effective defense because it allowed defenses to keep eight in the box for run defense. Now, when a defense plays man that's when receivers have to win the one-on-one matchup and get seperation. McCardell and Parker weren't consistently doing that. Now, was that a product of them being dinged up? (K-man--hamstring; Parker--Neck) I guess that depends on what you want to believe.

When teams have gone to zone coverage against us PR has shredded it. I mean...like ugly shredding. It's not that he's had trouble reading zones--it's that he's had receivers who weren't getting open initially against man coverage and then he starts to press.

This trend has been evident in three games... our second game against Oakland (who, by the way, has a very good defense,) our second game against the Chiefs and at Seattle. Now I'm not sure what happened in the Oakland game. Our passing game just did nothing. Against the Chiefs and the Seahawks we couldn't get McCardell and Parker healthy and they were gimping around at 80%. So Rivers struggled.

But a few points; PR has never started pressing to the point of giving up a tidal wave of turnovers. His worst game was against KC where he had two picks, but one of those was off a deflection. And in every game, even the ones where he really struggled, he made plays in the 4th quarter. It was pretty impressive to see, actually. No matter how bad he'd looked throughout the game he always made plays in the 4th quarter. And Vincent Jackson has started to show an ability to make plays against man coverage and has even beaten double coverage on a few deep plays (one of which he dropped, grrr!.)

Anyway, to make a long story only slightly longer, my feeling with PR is if you can manage real tight man coverage he may have problems. But he's been very good against zone defenses this year.

Great response and thanks for the explanation.

I posted (in one of these threads) earlier that I think the Pats will keep a Safety on top of gates and a LB underneath and someone will be in LT's face coming out of the back field. Expect to see him get hit and chipped all day on Sunday. It will come down to how much pressure our big 3 can get on Rivers (and hopefully the front 7 can confuse him a bit as well) and how well our CB's cover in man coverage. I can see them scheming and zoning in the middle but I think they will leave Hobbs and Samuels out on an Island a lot in this game - as the LB's and safeties will be focused on LT and Gates.

On the other hand I wouldn't be shocked if BB played the majority of the game out of the nickel package, prefering the extra DB for LT out of the backfield. With him you never know what to expect.

 

[lttd]

Just FYI to some of the Pats fans here...

I know it's a common perception that our receiving corps is mediocre, but due to injuries Rivers discovered Vincent Jackson and he's been huge for us of late. In the last 4 games he had 14 receptions for 286 yards and 3 TD's. Not elite numbers (well, the TD's are pretty good) but the key is that he's averaged over 20 yards per catch. That's something we really didn't have before. He has made some big gainers for us when our offense was languishing...had the game winning catch against the Seahawks with time running out.

He's 6'5 238 lbs with deep speed and good hands.

Combine Jackson with getting McCardell and Parker both healthy at the same time for the first time since mid-season and our receiver corps is looking a lot better to me than it has.

this matchup is definitely the "scrappy-thrown-together receiving corps that no one thinks is worth a damn" match up. Both teams have had very lesser known WR's play some dang good ball this year. Jabar Gaffney definitely is coming on strong, and as much as I hated "headlights" Caldwell in SD for all his fumbles, he has played great in NE. It should be fun to see who steps up in this game, and for us E. Parker back is HUGE.

 

[SDERA]

this matchup is definitely the "scrappy-thrown-together receiving corps that no one thinks is worth a damn" match up. Both teams have had very lesser known WR's play some dang good ball this year. Jabar Gaffney definitely is coming on strong, and as much as I hated "headlights" Caldwell in SD for all his fumbles, he has played great in NE. It should be fun to see who steps up in this game, and for us E. Parker back is HUGE.

V.Jack is a beast!!! The guy is in my opinion hes already our best wide reciever! He runs a 4.5 40 at 6'5 235lbs and has good hands, now thats just hardcore. Eat your heart out Terrel Owens.

 

[boltssbbound]

So the entire 2nd half is garbage time in your opinion?

The Bills were down 17-0 at halftime scored two TD's in the first 7 minutes of the third quarter to make it 17-14 and then no one scored until LT scored with just over 3 minutes left in the game. Then Losman threw a TD with 30 seconds left to get within 3 and chance for an onside kick. How is that garbage time?

The Broncos were down 28-3 at the Half then scored 17 points to make it 28-20 in the third quarter only to have your Chargers score 20 garbage time points in the 4th quarter to pull away.

The seachickens were down 7-0 at the half and then 13-7 after the third. They went up 17-13 in the 4th quarter, only to lose the game on a Jackson TD reception in garbage time (30 seconds left in the game)

You make it seem as if all the points were scored late in the 4th quarter when the game was out of hand and that the Chargers were in cruise control for the entire second half. That wasn't even close to being the case, as I have shown, every one of those games were down to a single posession during the second half.

The KC game was low scoring for the most part. The only game that your premise holds true in is the Arizona game.

I didn't say the entire 2nd half was garbage time, but the Bolts did give up alot of scores to make things respectable after games were out of reach. I would never mention the Denver game as "garbage time points." The Bolts came out flat in the 2nd half of that game at home against denver, had a special teams turnover and Denver briefly made a game of it before the Chargers finished them off. But there were many games where teams scored late when we were up by multiple scores.

We were up 40-0 to TN when they got a meaningless TD and 2 Pt conversion late. We went up 31-10 on the Rams with 10 minutes left in the game before the Rams' offense scored 2 TDs, intermixed with a Bolts TD, to make the game look more high scoring than it really was. We were up 32-18 on the Browns with less than two minutes left when they scored a meangless TD to make the final score more respectable. We were up 24-14 on the Bills with less than five minutes to go in that game when we got a game-ending INT on 3rd and 25. But after the INT our back up safety wrenched his knee going to the ground and coughed up the ball, giving the Bills the ball back along with a fresh set of downs. They went on to score a meaningless TD with last than a minute to play to make the game more respectable. Then you have the Cards game, where the Bolts were up 27-7 when the starters began to come out and the Cards racked up 13 points to make the final score a one score game.

That's 57 points that were scored in six games, after the games were out of reach.

I will say that the Chargers' biggest defensive liabilities this year have been poor red zone and 2 minute defense. We seemed to give up alot of points in the last two minutes of each half. And for some reason, our defense seemed to be at it's worst once a team got in the red zone. We allowed too many TDs as opposed to field goals, sort of the opposite of what the Pats did on D.

 

[boltssbbound]

V.Jack is a beast!!! The guy is in my opinion hes already our best wide reciever! He runs a 4.5 40 at 6'5 235lbs and has good hands, now thats just hardcore. Eat your heart out Terrel Owens.

Yes, and V Jack's come on very strong of late. He's fast, gets good seperation, is extremely big and powerful and a terrific blocker. He might not be listed as a starter, but he will play ever bit as much as McCardell and Parker.

 

[abyzmul]

you were favored by 12 over oakland and almost lost :singing:

yes, and the patriots were favored against the dolphins and got shut out. what does that say?

 

[boltssbbound]

Not against the Bills. The Cardinals yes and I didn't watch the other games and/or don't remember them.

Not against the Bills? The Chargers were up 24-14 with less than two minutes to go when the Bills scored, only after a freak play in which our safety intercepted a pass on 3rd and 25, wrenched his knee on the way to the ground, fumbled the ball and gave the Bills a fresh set of downs.

 

[mgcolby]

Not against the Bills? The Chargers were up 24-14 with less than two minutes to go when the Bills scored, only after a freak play in which our safety intercepted a pass on 3rd and 25, wrenched his knee on the way to the ground, fumbled the ball and gave the Bills a fresh set of downs.

The Bills were down 17-0 at halftime scored two TD's in the first 7 minutes of the third quarter to make it 17-14 and then no one scored until LT scored with just over 3 minutes left in the game. Then Losman threw a TD with 30 seconds left to get within 3 and chance for an onside kick.

I don't consider that garbage time. It may have been a freak play but the fact remains that they had a shot at the onside kick and it wasn't as if you guys took a commanding lead in the 3rd quarter.

 

[boltssbbound]

The Bills were down 17-0 at halftime scored two TD's in the first 7 minutes of the third quarter to make it 17-14 and then no one scored until LT scored with just over 3 minutes left in the game. Then Losman threw a TD with 30 seconds left to get within 3 and chance for an onside kick.

I don't consider that garbage time. It may have been a freak play but the fact remains that they had a shot at the onside kick and it wasn't as if you guys took a commanding lead in the 3rd quarter.

Sorry, but that was major garbage time. The Bolts were playing a soft zone, because they knew they couldn't lose unless the Bills scored fast.

 

[mgcolby]

Sorry, but that was major garbage time. The Bolts were playing a soft zone, because they knew they couldn't lose unless the Bills scored fast.

If you say so! So I guess your victory over Seattle was in major garbage time as I am sure that the Seahawks were playing a soft zone as well knowing you needed a TD to win.

 

[tomlinson21]

Sup PatFans and Bolt Fans....

There were 3 instances where I see Rivers struggling trying to squeeze it down the middle and got INT'd for it in zone coverage:
1. The Denver Broncos game last year when Brees was down for the count. He tries to squeeze it to Gates who was double teamed and it was a poorly thrown ball that got tipped and intercepted.

2. The Pre season game against the Bears...Urlacher lures him into making the throw down the middle and Urlacher picks him off for a TD.

3. Arizona Cardinals game last week. He's got a lock on Gates going down the middle and the Cards ILB plays the middle soft for the INT.

I think the problem with Rivers is (I would get ripped at the Chargers Boards for this) his ability to go through his progressions efficiently at times. He is a 1st year starting QB but if you look closely he doesn't lead off defenders much with his eyes facing one way and then looking the other way for the actual intended WR he's throwing to. Brees got that down to a science....Rivers will too in time. He hasn't thrown much interceptions this year which is amazing but that just tells you how deadly accurrately he is and how quick of a release he has with the sidearm motion. We charger fans think it's almost Dan Marino like.

But back to Rivers though. Stop Rivers...the game will be a tough one for us. It bottoms down to pass protection, staying composed in the pocket and making sure his receivers are open. He's a smart QB ... he will take a sack if his WR's aren't open for him. He will sacrifice his body or simply throw the ball away, when some QB's will make a silly attempt in trying to make a big play ala Eli Manning. That's playing smart and that's why we're 14-2. But I could see a few 2nd/3rd and longs if he can't get his rhythm in the pocket and gets sacked or pressured. That's just me. I'm sure other Bolt Fans may not agree but that's just me. Marty stresses the NO TURNOVER issue and Rivers responds.

Man I can't wait for this game. :rocker:

 

[spacecrime]

The one thing I like best about fans of other teams. You rarely hear from them after the game.

Thak God. I never had a sqawk aobut San Diego fans, but now they remind me of Dolphin fans: desparate to get their bragging in before the game. Remember how many Dolphin fans were here until the season started, then nada once the games begin.

These Dolts will have their tails between their legs if they lose. One thing I've seen here is that except for Seahawk fans a couple years ago, these guys are all neutered and hide in shame when their team loses.

Five more days until the Cone of Silence descends on San Diego and we become infested by sqawking Ravens.

 

[tomlinson21]

These Dolts will have their tails between their legs if they lose. One thing I've seen here is that except for Seahawk fans a couple years ago, these guys are all neutered and hide in shame when their team loses.

Very mis conceived comment about a majority of Chargers fans in here, Bro. How long did it take you to think that up? Before you go yapping about us Chargers fans in here, maybe you should read a majority of our posts. Most of us don't troll....

 

[abyzmul]

Thak God. I never had a sqawk aobut San Diego fans, but now they remind me of Dolphin fans: desparate to get their bragging in before the game. Remember how many Dolphin fans were here until the season started, then nada once the games begin.

These Dolts will have their tails between their legs if they lose. One thing I've seen here is that except for Seahawk fans a couple years ago, these guys are all neutered and hide in shame when their team loses.

Five more days until the Cone of Silence descends on San Diego and we become infested by sqawking Ravens.

Very mis conceived comment about a majority of Chargers fans in here, Bro. How long did it take you to think that up? Before you go yapping about us Chargers fans in here, maybe you should read a majority of our posts. Most of us don't troll....

spacecrime likes to make it up as he goes along.. let him be.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I will say that the Chargers' biggest defensive liabilities this year have been poor red zone and 2 minute defense. We seemed to give up alot of points in the last two minutes of each half. And for some reason, our defense seemed to be at it's worst once a team got in the red zone. We allowed too many TDs as opposed to field goals, sort of the opposite of what the Pats did on D.

Then you should sleep well. Brady runs one of the best 2 minute drills in the game. And the Pats are one of the top teams in the NFL at scoring points before the end of halftime.

 

[Tunescribe]

Very interesting. Thanks for the post.
Yes I was thinking about PATs use of the screen. It will probably depend
on how agressive Chargers want/able to be.

Is there any chance BB changes things up and uses a lot of 4-3?
Waren and Green as DE's and Seymour and Wilfork as DTs.
That alingment may make it more difficult for Charges to stretch out the run especially if Warren and Green can use their
power and quickness to get off their blocks and penetrate the backfield. Plus on playaction you got the speed of
Green to get to Rivers.

I was wondering the same thing. Jarvis Green could be an "X factor" for us in this game. Chad Jackson could be the same thing for us on offense, as indicated by how we tried to use him against the Jets.

 

[tomlinson21]

Then you should sleep well. Brady runs one of the best 2 minute drills in the game. And the Pats are one of the top teams in the NFL at scoring points before the end of halftime.

An we're the best at scoring points in the 4th quarter...where it matters most.:bricks: