A rival to Belichick on the horizon?

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Jercules

Practice Squad Player
Bill is a GOAT coach and GM. Has Reid ever built a team? We're pretty desperate for conversation right now...
 

Ross12

Moderator
Staff member
PatsFans.com Supporter
Bill didn’t call time out while we all screamed for him to call time out. (Seahawks SB)
That’s a good example of the clock management stuff. Bill can’t even really explain it beyond saying “I don’t know, it just looked like something wasn’t right on their sideline, I didn’t want to give them more time, I let it play out and trusted my guys.” Who the hell knows how many ways Andy Reid would’ve screwed up that situation by that point. He probably wouldn’t have had any timeouts left to take by then anyway...
 

Pape

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Reid is a great coach who can win with just about anyone taking snaps. He will continue to post 10+ win seasons as long as mahomes stays healthy.

As for catching BB it just depends on how long BB continues to coach & post winning records. If Reid posts 12 win seasons and BB posts 9, 10 win seasons, it would take a very long time for Reid to overtake Belichick.
 

scout

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Reid is a very good team builder. Just look at his career.
Reid had 3 losing seasons in Philly and 7 seasons when he did not win 10 games. I like the guy, but frankly, he's not even in the same conversation as BB.
 

everlong

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Curran had a reporter from KC on doing a point/counter-point segment. Curran asked him how many title Mahomes would win and he said he would set the O/U at 3.5 and that anything less than 3 would be a major disappointment.

Brady(6), Starr(5), Montana,(4) Bradshaw,(4) Graham (3 + 4 in AAFC) , Unitas (3) and Aikman (3).

That means NFL top 100 QBs Staubach, Baugh, Elway, Marino, Manning and Favre didn't do it. Neither did Brees, Rodgers, Young.....or anybody else.

Mahomes is young, talent and appears to that that drive like Brady and other greats. He very well may win 3 or more but people are acting like it's inevitable when in reality it's really flipping difficult.

The cap as already pointed out is going to make it harder and harder to keep the offense stocked. How many years does Reid really have left? I wish him well but it's not like he's in the greatest of shape. Kelce probably has a couple of years given age to be dominant. Hill is going to screw up again eventually. The Chiefs last year went without any big injuries that lingered into the playoffs. Mahomes, Hill and others did miss games in the regular season but they pretty much had the entire cast for the playoffs. That's rare. I'm not going to discount their comeback any more than I will the Pats vs Atlanta but at the same time you need some luck throw in there.

I think the Patriots doing what they've done has warped perception of getting this done. If Mahomes is going to win 3+ he better get at least another one in the next two years.
 

1960Pats

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Few things,

1. Reid is a great coach. He made KC quite competitive with Alex Smith, who's well below Mahomes in terms of.game.winning ability. He knows how to make a team around it's strengths. Anyone who remembers that Smith KC team remembers their defense. Now it's pretty much the opposite. He knows when to switch it up.

2. That being said, I don't think it's possible to overstate how improbable Brady/Bill dominance was. We were insanely close to losing every single SB in the second run. Butler, a fukcin' UDFA, making the most clutch defensive play in SB history after the defense just blew it right up to that last play?

The insane comeback against the Falcons? Like, for real. So. Much. Stuff. Had to go right. And it did. Falcons D got gassed, a sack where a RB flopped his blitz pick-up that lead to a fumble, a crucial holding call was called, then followed by a sack - only after Julio had an insane catch that tapped the nail in the coffin. Luckily they didn't hammer it in. Oh. Also an absurd, absurd, absurd catch from JE.

And finally, the Rams... A game that didn't even go above 20pts. Which had an insane Post-Season performance against the Chiefs which had multiple converted 3-10's in OT.

A 12 win season in 2019? How was that even a damn thing with that offense?

A 12 win season in 2013? How was that a thing with that offense?

I for sure think Reid will tack on a lot of W's. I mean you outlined it. But I wouldn't get on them having some of the post season craziness we've had. It's ridiculous. I will never underplay it by saying it was all "luck", but a lot of **** had to miraculously happen - and the team had to be cerebral enough to take advantage of that split second moment.
As @Sicilian mentioned upstream, Bill hasn't stopped yet so that gap isn't going to close very quickly.

On the Edelman catch in the Atlanta comeback, one thing that gets overlooked is the call by one of the refs. He came running in and emphatically called it a reception. Because of that, Quinn used his last timeout to challenge the call and that left Atlanta without any when they got the ball back with a minute left.
 

p8ryts

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Some people believe that no matter what happens going forward here in NE post-Brady, BB’s status as best HC of modern times is secure.

If the near future unfolds in a not implausible way, there is an oft-ridiculed unlikely competitor on the horizon who could challenge that perception.

BB is 68 years old, has 273 regular season wins, 31 postseason wins, 6 titles, with unprecedented success in NE after limited success in Cleveland. The success of his coaching tree is mixed. We are hopeful about the future in NE but there is roster uncertainty.

Andy Reid is 62 years old with 207 regular season wins, 15 postseason wins, 1 title, and successfully rescued 2 separate franchises (Philly & KC). His coaching tree is good (John Harbaugh, Doug Peterson). He has the best QB in the league who is only 24 years old.

If NE falters in the next few years without Brady, while Reid coaches 6+ more years, averages 11 wins per year and builds a SB winning dynasty in KC with Mahomes, given Reid’s great success in two different locations (Philadelphia and KC) with multiple QBs and a superior coaching tree, a weak argument could be made in his favor vs BB; and people would love to make that argument because Reid is a very affable guy.

This is an unlikely but not impossible scenario.

This adds another layer of interest to the next few years here in NE, beyond the BB/Brady rivalry.
We all spend too much time trying to say our guy is the best. Brady vs Belichick, Reid vs Belichick, Brady vs Manning. It's all relative. We will always favor Brady and Belichick as we should, but records are always broken because circumstances change. I'm just happy we had ours while I could still enjoy them because I endured a lot of years on the other end of the spectrum. The newest media fabrication was something about who would get a statue Brady or Belichick. The only statue that would ever make sense to me is one of the two of them on the sideline during a game with Brady looking down at Bill while Bill is making some point about the game.
 

1960Pats

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
That’s a good example of the clock management stuff. Bill can’t even really explain it beyond saying “I don’t know, it just looked like something wasn’t right on their sideline, I didn’t want to give them more time, I let it play out and trusted my guys.” Who the hell knows how many ways Andy Reid would’ve screwed up that situation by that point. He probably wouldn’t have had any timeouts left to take by then anyway...
I think the Seahawks had all their timeouts but dropped two of them just before The Butler Did It. That left them with only one and Big Brain Bill took advantage. In one of the videos I watched, the Pats coaches were talking about the timeout possibility and Bill told them that "I've got this." He wasn't kidding.
 

Pape

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Reid had 3 losing seasons in Philly and 7 seasons when he did not win 10 games. I like the guy, but frankly, he's not even in the same conversation as BB.
Took as 3 win ray Rhodes team and turned it in to a perennial contender ... That's a good bit of coaching... Is he BB level great? Probably not, but if BB left and he was available, I'd hire him
 

amfootball

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Curran had a reporter from KC on doing a point/counter-point segment. Curran asked him how many title Mahomes would win and he said he would set the O/U at 3.5 and that anything less than 3 would be a major disappointment.

Brady(6), Starr(5), Montana,(4) Bradshaw,(4) Graham (3 + 4 in AAFC) , Unitas (3) and Aikman (3).

That means NFL top 100 QBs Staubach, Baugh, Elway, Marino, Manning and Favre didn't do it. Neither did Brees, Rodgers, Young.....or anybody else.

Mahomes is young, talent and appears to that that drive like Brady and other greats. He very well may win 3 or more but people are acting like it's inevitable when in reality it's really flipping difficult.

The cap as already pointed out is going to make it harder and harder to keep the offense stocked. How many years does Reid really have left? I wish him well but it's not like he's in the greatest of shape. Kelce probably has a couple of years given age to be dominant. Hill is going to screw up again eventually. The Chiefs last year went without any big injuries that lingered into the playoffs. Mahomes, Hill and others did miss games in the regular season but they pretty much had the entire cast for the playoffs. That's rare. I'm not going to discount their comeback any more than I will the Pats vs Atlanta but at the same time you need some luck throw in there.

I think the Patriots doing what they've done has warped perception of getting this done. If Mahomes is going to win 3+ he better get at least another one in the next two years.
Great points about how flipping hard it is to do especially the cap/FA era. Since the cap/FA came in the mid-90's only three QBs have 2 rings - Elway, Eli, Ben. That's it. No one with 3 which is why I find the 3.5 number laughable even for Mahomes. Once he gets paid this summer, the degree of difficulty goes way, way up. And he also seems somewhat injury prone on top. It is just such a difficult feat to do what the Pats did for 20 years AND have the QB/coach stay together.
 

Patsfanin Philly

Pro Bowl Player
Reid will be lucky his heart doesn't quit on him in the next 5 years.

2. That 40 to 50M dollar mega deal that Mahommes will command in 2021 will severely hamstring the team and there's no way he can do what Brady did with the same level of talent around him.
.
Yup and combine that with the possibility of the cap decreasing due to decreased revenue this year and we'll see how many players they can retain....
I'm a native New Englander who has lived in Philly 30+ years ( do I get a medal for that alone?) and I got to see Andy Reid's coaching acumen up close from the not so hurry up offense in SB 39 down by 2 scores ( BB to Ernie " we're up by 2 scores, right?") to having to call a timeout to draw up a two point conversion play late in another game. You're telling me the didn't have that ready. I've posted before that Reid can mangle a clock worse than anyone since Salvador Dali but he is never going to be GOAT. Can he draft well? Yes, Does he have great schemes? Absolutely. Is he a good game day coach? No way, no how...
Point to consider, BB is 9-3 in conference championship games, Reid is 2-4 losing to the likes of Brad Johnson and Jake Delhomme...not exactly Peyton Manning...
Reid is 15-14 in playoffs, just getting above .500 this year ( Shulaesque) compared to BB's 31-12 .
 

Simpelton

In the Starting Line-Up
Yes. And he has to extend this QB next season, good luck with the upcoming Cap to keep Mahomes (as the highest paid QB) and having a good team around him to be successful

when it comes to cap managment and manufacturing a competitive team all around, there is no one even close to BB
Not onl that, I think people are forgetting that one of the reasons BB was so successful at keeping a team around Brady is beccause most people didn't think that TB12 was the best thing since sliced bread, at least not at first. Until he exploded as a conventional QB with the arrival of Moss, people thought Brady was a conventionally talented QB who got lucky to land in a perfect situation. We now know that position is nonsense, but it had a lot of adherents back in the day.

That made it much easier to keep his salary somewhat reasonable, and the fact that he understood this and was willing to play ball and keep his demands modest in order to keep a team around him makes Brady absolutely unique in the modern era.

Bottom line, Brady was unique, and complemented what Belichick could do on defense perfectly. That combination is generational and will not be seen again for awhile, maybe for our lifetimes. Reid is competent and Mahomes is a stud, but he's about to get PAID and that's going to affect the talent they can put around him, and I've never heard of Reid being any kind of draft genius
 

Patriot Missile

Pro Bowl Player
Yup and combine that with the possibility of the cap decreasing due to decreased revenue this year and we'll see how many players they can retain....
I'm a native New Englander who has lived in Philly 30+ years ( do I get a medal for that alone?) and I got to see Andy Reid's coaching acumen up close from the not so hurry up offense in SB 39 down by 2 scores ( BB to Ernie " we're up by 2 scores, right?") to having to call a timeout to draw up a two point conversion play late in another game. You're telling me the didn't have that ready. I've posted before that Reid can mangle a clock worse than anyone since Salvador Dali but he is never going to be GOAT. Can he draft well? Yes, Does he have great schemes? Absolutely. Is he a good game day coach? No way, no how...
Point to consider, BB is 9-3 in conference championship games, Reid is 2-4 losing to the likes of Brad Johnson and Jake Delhomme...not exactly Peyton Manning...
Reid is 15-14 in playoffs, just getting above .500 this year ( Shulaesque) compared to BB's 31-12 .
Yeah l, I guess BB would of have to manage the rest of his career like Reid manages clock for him to be surpassed.
 
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everlong

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Great points about how flipping hard it is to do especially the cap/FA era. Since the cap/FA came in the mid-90's only three QBs have 2 rings - Elway, Eli, Ben. That's it. No one with 3 which is why I find the 3.5 number laughable even for Mahomes. Once he gets paid this summer, the degree of difficulty goes way, way up. And he also seems somewhat injury prone on top. It is just such a difficult feat to do what the Pats did for 20 years AND have the QB/coach stay together.
Peyton also has 2 rings in that time frame but your point stands.
 

captain stone

Pro Bowl Player
...On the Edelman catch in the Atlanta comeback, one thing that gets overlooked is the call by one of the refs. He came running in and emphatically called it a reception. Because of that, Quinn used his last timeout to challenge the call and that left Atlanta without any when they got the ball back with a minute left.
Same official (#45 in your program IIRC) who emphatically And Correctly made the Edelman catch call also emphatically And Correctly Again made the Jame White OT TD call...this guy should be promoted to Referee and take Jerry Booger's place...
 

Vindicate

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
As @Sicilian mentioned upstream, Bill hasn't stopped yet so that gap isn't going to close very quickly.

On the Edelman catch in the Atlanta comeback, one thing that gets overlooked is the call by one of the refs. He came running in and emphatically called it a reception. Because of that, Quinn used his last timeout to challenge the call and that left Atlanta without any when they got the ball back with a minute left.
It's crazy how many things went right. Thanks for reminding me of that one.
 
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