A note on Brady's example list of high-character guys

[Michigan Dave]

I think he (and many players) separate the business side of the game from the on-field and locker room side of the game. They are two different worlds and he is able to balance a good relationship with his bosses/management and good relationships with teammates who may be having issues with management. It is that 'all business' mentality on the field.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

In most cases, yeah. I remember some members here starting to do that with Big Vince in the midst of his contract negotiations with the team. Some people here (they know who they are) take what Branch did far too personally and need to get over it.

I don't care if a player wants more money. I don't care if he *****es to Bill night and day about it. I dont even care if they sit out the whole damn training camp. I just don't like it when the player/agent start *****ing to the media. Mankins, Branch, Law and Assante can win all the games they want in a Pats uniform. That doesnt mean im going to start liking them.

 

[Patjew]

I think he (and many players) separate the business side of the game from the on-field and locker room side of the game. They are two different worlds and he is able to balance a good relationship with his bosses/management and good relationships with teammates who may be having issues with management. It is that 'all business' mentality on the field.

Hey Dave, good to see you.

 

[Joker]

Man, am I glad to see you PJ...please tell me YOU, at least, enjoy watching Patriot football

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Man, am I glad to see you PJ...please tell me YOU, at least, enjoy watching Patriot football

not that anyone cares, but I enjoy watching Patriot football opcorn:

 

[Patjew]

Man, am I glad to see you PJ...please tell me YOU, at least, enjoy watching Patriot football

Love it enough to pay $25 to watch it on my laptop. It's my favorite and most stress-inducing thing that I do!

 

[Patjew]

not that anyone cares, but I enjoy watching Patriot football opcorn:

We care, bro, we care. Now forgive Deion and get with the program!

 

[Ice Cold Bruschi]

Hey man its just business. The only one I'd say went about things the wrong way was Law, who made it personal and hurled out insults.

 

[BradyFTW!]

In most cases, yeah. I remember some members here starting to do that with Big Vince in the midst of his contract negotiations with the team. Some people here (they know who they are) take what Branch did far too personally and need to get over it.

*cough* Richard Seymour

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Its only here on Patsfans.com where if a player so much as thinks about asking for a new contract he's a greedy scumbag who puts himself before the team.

Yeah. I think it's simple.

These guys are "entertainers" in a profession where the average career span is 3.3 years, where their playing days could end on any practice field or in any game, and where management will cut them or franchise them in a nanosecond if it's in management's interests. If they are elite and if there is a market for their skills, they deserve to be paid at an elite level and they have every right to maximize their earnings potential.

I never have a problem when one of them looks out for himself and his own interests contract-wise as long as he gives 100% when he gets back on the field.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

The only one I'd say went about things the wrong way was Law, who made it personal and hurled out insults.

did you forget about Mankins?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Where else? How about everywhere else people are making millions of dollars.

You obviously don't get the Wall Street Journal or Variety. I mean, you've got hot shot bankers whining about how they deserve their billions of dollars in bonuses when they're lucky they're not being brought up for fraud, and in Hollywood, any time a movie makes over $100 million, it's a solid bet that there will be at least three law suits as the production company, the movie studio, and the talent all squabble over their piece of the pie. And let's not forget what's number one at the box office -- a movie about a bunch of billionaire computer nerds involved in three intertwining lawsuits about the golden goose that is facebook.

And I guarantee you that no Senior VP at AIG had to worry about getting his knee blown out while he was busy investing people's retirement funds in debt-based derivatives he knew damn well were worthless at the time.

Bingo. In *any* market where individuals are valuable enough as commodities to command those types of salaries, they use that leverage to maximize compensation. And why wouldn't they? It's not like the employer isn't doing the same, in the other direction.

Dunno why some posters here think that these guys, who probably go through something like 95% of their lifetime earning potential before they're 40, shouldn't care about money. I guess they lose perspective once you get into the millions.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Just the same, where else do you get millionaires still under contract publicly stomping their feet and whining about being extended? Or, having their contracts torn up and re-done for many millions more? I know that's the standard course of behavior for NFL players, but it's ridiculous in real-world context. Personally, I don't believe pro athletes deserve many millions of dollars for playing a game, but that's what the marketplace has created. I doubt I'll ever sympathize with any rich athlete, Patriot or not, moaning and crying to the press about being "disrespected" for not being made richer by his boss.

I couldn't disagree more, Tune.

These guys are key elements of a multi-billion dollar entertainment enterprise, known as the NFL. Their average career span is 3.3 years and it can all end at anytime in a game or on a practice field. They work for owners who will cut them or franchise them without giving it a second thought if they decide it's in their own economic interest.

If they are elite, they deserve to be paid like an elite, which is how it happens in the "real world" of entertainers and highly talented people in any profession that commands a mass-market audience or that adds a high level of economic value to an enterprise.

You might make the argument that our entire culture of celebrity, entertainment and Wall Street salaries is out of whack, and there I might agree with you.

But these guys are just doing what their highly achieving peers in other industries do every day. I have no problem with it as long as they give 100% during games, in practice and in the lockerroom.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

He didn't sit down and think of every guy he could. He just threw out a few names off the top of his head. There is nothing to read into except that once again the BUSINESS side of football is understood and not personal at all levels except for the fans.

Not reading too much into it but considering he was mentioning names of those who played a major role during the SB runs, it is surprising that he did not mention Harrison.

Brady probably had in mind only those in the 2001 season but Harrison's dedication and leadership were unquestionable during the subsequent runs when we clearly proved that we were the best and no fluke in 2001. His presence on the field was so crucial during those days. And he always giving his best in spite of him not raking in zillions.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

Where else? How about everywhere else people are making millions of dollars.

You obviously don't get the Wall Street Journal or Variety. I mean, you've got hot shot bankers whining about how they deserve their billions of dollars in bonuses when they're lucky they're not being brought up for fraud, and in Hollywood, any time a movie makes over $100 million, it's a solid bet that there will be at least three law suits as the production company, the movie studio, and the talent all squabble over their piece of the pie. And let's not forget what's number one at the box office -- a movie about a bunch of billionaire computer nerds involved in three intertwining lawsuits about the golden goose that is facebook.

And I guarantee you that no Senior VP at AIG had to worry about getting his knee blown out while he was busy investing people's retirement funds in debt-based derivatives he knew damn well were worthless at the time.

I take it you were in the room with those guys when they took those decisions.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

Bingo. In *any* market where individuals are valuable enough as commodities to command those types of salaries, they use that leverage to maximize compensation. And why wouldn't they? It's not like the employer isn't doing the same, in the other direction.

Dunno why some posters here think that these guys, who probably go through something like 95% of their lifetime earning potential before they're 40, shouldn't care about money. I guess they lose perspective once you get into the millions.

I don't think they lose all their perspective because of the additional zeros. They compare their real compensation with that of their peers and use that as a measuring scale to decide if the team is paying close or higher to what other teams are paying.

No argument about people wanting to maximize their salary. But, why don't you do it after you play out what you signed for? I think that is what irks many of the fans when some of them hold out.

Granted, the employer can tear up the contract if at any time due to non-performance or for any reason. However, this was a risk that they knew before signing the contract. If they felt strongly about this extra power to the employer, they shouldn't have signed it until it gave them some guaranteed money.

 

[lamafist]

I take it you were in the room with those guys when they took those decisions.

Not personally, no.

But if you've been reading anything besides the sports pages, you'd know it's not like there's been any shortage of whistleblowers who were in the room, many of whom were talking to anyone who would listen to them in the years before the financial crisis, and were largely marginalized and ignored.

If you're interested in the subject, I think far and away the best book on the subject is Michael Lewis' (of Moneyball and The Blind Side fame) The Big Short, which manages to make a compelling read out of some very dense, esoteric material, without ever dumbing it down to the point of rhetoric. I'd also recommend Lewis' first book Liar's Poker, which tells the story of his disallusionment while working on Wall Street in the 80's -- the parallels between then and now are pretty frightening in terms of how badly we've failed to avoid repeating the same mistakes all over again.

 

[lamafist]

I don't think they lose all their perspective because of the additional zeros. They compare their real compensation with that of their peers and use that as a measuring scale to decide if the team is paying close or higher to what other teams are paying.

No argument about people wanting to maximize their salary. But, why don't you do it after you play out what you signed for? I think that is what irks many of the fans when some of them hold out.

Granted, the employer can tear up the contract if at any time due to non-performance or for any reason. However, this was a risk that they knew before signing the contract. If they felt strongly about this extra power to the employer, they shouldn't have signed it until it gave them some guaranteed money.

In most cases, the player had little choice. The terms of your first contract are largely determined by your draft spot -- unless you're a 1st rounder, you're not getting much in the way of guarantees, and we've all seen the cautionary tales of how a player's career can be derailed by holding out into his rookie season.

Also, by your logic, the player's employer knew very well before signing a player to a contract that if the player out-performs it, it's as much in his rights to hold out as it is in the team's rights to cut him, so if they felt strongly about that, they should have either back-ended the contract to provide incentive to the player to play it out, or re-upped the player before it became an issue.

Clearly, that is the way Belichick sees it -- he clearly didn't hold Branch's holdout against him. He recognized the impasse Branch and the team were at, and made the most of it, and didn't look back.

IMO, a lot of these contract squabbles are needlessly brought about by the archaic institution of the NFL draft. It was necessary in the early days of football, when maintaining a playing field was a larger expenditure than talent. Nowadays, it actually punishes the teams it's supposedly trying to give a leg up, and causes automatic strife between the players and their teams as collateral damage. Giving both the players the freedom to negotiate who they play for and for how much during their rookie season, and the teams the freedom to allocate their cap space as they see fit is a win-win situation.

 

[Fencer]

Hey man its just business. The only one I'd say went about things the wrong way was Law, who made it personal and hurled out insults.

Mankins has done the same thing, albeit through spokespeople.

As for Branch: These guys have VERY few ways in which they can exercise their natural right to negotiate for better working terms. So they're not necessarily bad guys when they exercise those, unless there's some dishonesty involved or something.

 

[Fencer]

No argument about people wanting to maximize their salary. But, why don't you do it after you play out what you signed for? I think that is what irks many of the fans when some of them hold out.

Granted, the employer can tear up the contract if at any time due to non-performance or for any reason. However, this was a risk that they knew before signing the contract. If they felt strongly about this extra power to the employer, they shouldn't have signed it until it gave them some guaranteed money.

Employers can cancel contracts. It's part of the deal.
Players can hold out. It's part of the deal (and indeed pretty much part of the Constitution, post-Civil War).

Why is it only bad when players exercise their rights?