4th round pick and Deflategate Penalty

[ivanvamp]

So one aspect of the Deflategate penalty was that the Patriots were to lose their 4th round pick (and my understanding is that if they acquired other 4th round picks, they would be forced to give up the best of their 4th round picks). But if they don't have any because they're all traded away, how does the NFL handle it?

For example...

Let's say the Patriots had dealt away their own 4th rounder in a deal where they also got two other 4th rounders back. Say they had dealt their own 4th plus a 2nd, and received back a player and two 4ths from another team. Those two 4ths they acquired would be better than their original 4th round pick. So the NFL would take the highest of those 4th rounders, but they wouldn't take it until draft day.

But what if, in subsequent trades, the Patriots dealt away both those 4th round picks and were left with no 4th rounders after all their wheeling and dealing was done? Would the NFL dock them a THIRD round pick? Could they just make it up as they went along?

 

[Tony2046]

Good question. I would guess that the NFL wouldn't approve such a trade because of the penalty requirements.

 

[winged1dur]

My guess is the penalty would then become a 2018 third round pick.

 

[Dillon46]

Im sure "Ginger the Cowardly Lion" would issue an additional infraction accusing BB of trying to deal away those picks on purpose and demand we send Cooks to the Jets while losing the traded picks in the trade. Also forced to relinquish the FIVE Titles and they take our next 10 years worth of 4th rounders.

Goodell will regurgitate his integrity speech over and over until the media soaks it in and the average mental midget is brainwashed cause the Pats are bad and they win and my Jets dont they must cheat. This after a huge story breaks that the Jersey Sh*t-Rats blatantly tampered with Garoppolo next offseason if he isnt traded this year.

Funny thing is this maybe made up but I put nothing past those "pickle-smoochers" running this joke of an NFL. I mean they suspended Brady 4 games and fined Kraft heftily while docking a 1st last year and 4th this year off of a botched smear campaign, which ignored science a god damned 8th grader even knows........if you were told this 3 years ago you likely wouldve laughed cause its so ridiculous and would never happen....

Seriously though that is a really good question and id be scared, Goodell is one condom that shouldve never broke and I put nothing past that ass

 

[SaCaCh]

As soon as the penalty is given the pick is "gone" unless a better one was traded for then the penalty would move to that pick.

 

[ivanvamp]

As soon as the penalty is given the pick is "gone" unless a better one was traded for then the penalty would move to that pick.

And then that original pick would return? I mean, it can't really be "gone" until it's time to draft, right?

 

[sb1]

I think the 4th from NO is gone and the Pats slide down to their 4th rounder from SEA.

 

[farn]

What about if BB keeps moving it down & picking up 6ths or 7ths ? He could "milk it for all it's worth" before losing it.

 

[Ivan]

So one aspect of the Deflategate penalty was that the Patriots were to lose their 4th round pick (and my understanding is that if they acquired other 4th round picks, they would be forced to give up the best of their 4th round picks). But if they don't have any because they're all traded away, how does the NFL handle it?

For example...

Let's say the Patriots had dealt away their own 4th rounder in a deal where they also got two other 4th rounders back. Say they had dealt their own 4th plus a 2nd, and received back a player and two 4ths from another team. Those two 4ths they acquired would be better than their original 4th round pick. So the NFL would take the highest of those 4th rounders, but they wouldn't take it until draft day.

But what if, in subsequent trades, the Patriots dealt away both those 4th round picks and were left with no 4th rounders after all their wheeling and dealing was done? Would the NFL dock them a THIRD round pick? Could they just make it up as they went along?

The NFL wouldn't approve the trade, just as they wouldn't have approved of them trading their first last year.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

The punishment letter specifically said NE could not "trade or encumber" their highest 4th round pick.

This is why the pick isn't officially gone until the team before that spot in the draft makes it's pick. Because at any time before it's time to make the to-be-forfeited pick if NE acquires a higher one in the round THAT pick is forfeited but the next lower NE pick is given back to NE.

 

[jmt57]

The punishment letter specifically said NE could not "trade or encumber" their highest 4th round pick.

This is why the pick isn't officially gone until the team before that spot in the draft makes it's pick. Because at any time before it's time to make the to-be-forfeited pick if NE acquires a higher one in the round THAT pick is forfeited but the next lower NE pick is given back to NE.

And yet the Patriots traded the higher (at that time) 4th round pick in the Allen trade.

The other 4th (New Orleans) came in a trade announced later.

Perhaps the Patriots circumvented that rule by not officially submitting the trade paperwork to the NFL, at least until the Cooks trade was agreed upon?

I wouldn't put it past Goodell to reject the Allen trade by saying the Pats could not trade that pick - even though they could simply resubmit it now that New England has the earlier 4th round pick from New Orleans.

Would Goodell and his minions be so petty to do that?

 

[BelichickFan]

I think the 4th from NO is gone and the Pats slide down to their 4th rounder from SEA.

Which is why it will very likely be traded, it's too high of a 4th to lose. Whether we flip it into next year or just trade down, I think we'll trade the New Orleans pick and lose the lower Seattle. That clause was stupid from the start.

 

[The Gr8est]

Which is why it will very likely be traded, it's too high of a 4th to lose. Whether we flip it into next year or just trade down, I think we'll trade the New Orleans pick and lose the lower Seattle. That clause was stupid from the start.

You spelled vindictive wrong.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

And yet the Patriots traded the higher (at that time) 4th round pick in the Allen trade.

The other 4th (New Orleans) came in a trade announced later.

Perhaps the Patriots circumvented that rule by not officially submitting the trade paperwork to the NFL, at least until the Cooks trade was agreed upon?

I wouldn't put it past Goodell to reject the Allen trade by saying the Pats could not trade that pick - even though they could simply resubmit it now that New England has the earlier 4th round pick from New Orleans.

Would Goodell and his minions be so petty to do that?

It was reported that way at the time - but it was wrong. Mike Reiss has since noted that the Pats traded their own 4th rounder, not Seattle's.

Myriad of trades helped put Patriots in position to acquire Dwayne Allen

 

[QuantumMechanic]

And yet the Patriots traded the higher (at that time) 4th round pick in the Allen trade.

No, they didn't. That was bad reporting. NE traded their own pick to IND (#137 overall).

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Which is why it will very likely be traded, it's too high of a 4th to lose. Whether we flip it into next year or just trade down, I think we'll trade the New Orleans pick and lose the lower Seattle. That clause was stupid from the start.

The NO pick cannot be traded. As the highest current NE 4th round pick it is frozen and can't be traded or used as collateral in any transaction.

 

[XLIX]

So one aspect of the Deflategate penalty was that the Patriots were to lose their 4th round pick (and my understanding is that if they acquired other 4th round picks, they would be forced to give up the best of their 4th round picks). But if they don't have any because they're all traded away, how does the NFL handle it?

For example...

Let's say the Patriots had dealt away their own 4th rounder in a deal where they also got two other 4th rounders back. Say they had dealt their own 4th plus a 2nd, and received back a player and two 4ths from another team. Those two 4ths they acquired would be better than their original 4th round pick. So the NFL would take the highest of those 4th rounders, but they wouldn't take it until draft day.

But what if, in subsequent trades, the Patriots dealt away both those 4th round picks and were left with no 4th rounders after all their wheeling and dealing was done? Would the NFL dock them a THIRD round pick? Could they just make it up as they went along?

You can't trade away something you don't have. So the Patriots have no 4th round pick to start. If, using your example, they made a trade where they got 2 4th rounders back (note they can't use their "missing pick" as part of this deal). So say they get the #10 and #20 pick in the 4th round as part of this hypothetical deal. Now the Patriots own #20 and #31 in the 4th round, which they may use in any way they see fit. (The reason why they are #31 instead of #32 is because due to the pick they lost, there are only 31 picks in the 4th round prior to the compensatories)

 

[ivanvamp]

You can't trade away something you don't have. So the Patriots have no 4th round pick to start. If, using your example, they made a trade where they got 2 4th rounders back (note they can't use their "missing pick" as part of this deal). So say they get the #10 and #20 pick in the 4th round as part of this hypothetical deal. Now the Patriots own #20 and #31 in the 4th round, which they may use in any way they see fit. (The reason why they are #31 instead of #32 is because due to the pick they lost, there are only 31 picks in the 4th round prior to the compensatories)

So with no 4th rounder to start with, if that's already been taken away, if they made a deal to trade for, say, the 7th pick in the fourth round, the NFL would give the Patriots back the original 31st pick of the fourth round that they stole, and then steal the 7th pick in the fourth round that the Pats just picked up?

 

[BelichickFan]

The NO pick cannot be traded. As the highest current NE 4th round pick it is frozen and can't be traded or used as collateral in any transaction.

Looks like you're right. I thought we lost the highest #4 we have at the start of the draft. It appears that our currently highest #4 is frozen, to be taken away. F*ck the NFL, thank God we won a month ago.

 

[XLIX]

So with no 4th rounder to start with, if that's already been taken away, if they made a deal to trade for, say, the 7th pick in the fourth round, the NFL would give the Patriots back the original 31st pick of the fourth round that they stole, and then steal the 7th pick in the fourth round that the Pats just picked up?

Yes. Although it is worth noting that this is the round where the NY Giants received their punishment for walkie-talkie gate. IIRC they dropped 10 places which actually puts their 4th round pick in the Compensatory picks section of round 4.

In conclusion: That's how much of an ******* Goodell is.