3rd-Year Starter Mac Jones vs 3rd-Year Starter: Another Guy(s)

[rads2005]

Just read this analysis of Mac Jones I thought was interesting:

NFL exec's explanation for Mac Jones' struggles makes a lot of sense

An NFL executive whose team recently played the Patriots has a pretty clear idea of why the game looks “hard” for Mac Jones right now.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

“It does look hard for him [physically],” says one top executive from a team that played New England this year. “Mac came from Alabama—they ran the ball, they had the weapons outside, they had the play-action pass game, the anticipation, all those things. And the Patriots aren’t doing that with him because they don’t have the personnel. They’ve run some three tight-end stuff, and most people just run the ball from there, but they’re doing it looking for matchups, and throwing the ball with it, and that should tell you something.

“He’s a quick-trigger, efficient, rhythm-and-timing passer. If you’re playing a quick game and play-action with him, that’s great. If you have him sitting there processing, and throwing into tight spots, that’s not great. … And New England hasn’t drafted great. The offensive line is ehhhh. The receivers are ehhhh. And now they’re expecting a miracle from someone who needs good things around him. You can win with him. He won’t be the reason you win.”

 

[Guts]

Brady threw 4 interceptions week one that year, 3 in week four and then only 5 the rest of the season. The Patriots finished the year on a 12 game winning streak.

Stats can be misleading. Mac hasn’t been good since the wind bowl in Buffalo when he only got to throw 3 passes. I’m not sure if he was damaged mentally by that or it’s just coincidence but since then he is 8-16 with 22 interceptions. Tom Brady didn’t lose 16 games in his career until early 2005.

 

[Jim Beankie]

THIRD YEAR STARTERS: #adversity
Drew Bledsoe Through Four Games (1995)
100/205 1,058yds 0 TDs 5 INTs 7 Sacks
Record (1-3)
*Lost one contest by 25 points
View attachment 53337

For all the talk of Brady winning 6 SBs, he didn't do crapola in the first AFC Champ game with the Steelers. Coincidentally, he was quoted as saying that it was the first game that he was scared for.

“That was the first game that I was scared. The moment was definitely bigger than I was ready for. From the start of the game, I was confused. I didn’t know what was coming. For as much as my ankle was hurting, I was scared, too.”

“Coach [Belichick] recognized that in me too. I think he probably looked at me and said, ‘Okay, Tom, we’re going to let someone else play the game’. Thank God Drew was there to come in and ended up playing basically the last two-and-a-half quarters of the game.”

 

[VrabelJr]

Just read this analysis of Mac Jones I thought was interesting:

NFL exec's explanation for Mac Jones' struggles makes a lot of sense

An NFL executive whose team recently played the Patriots has a pretty clear idea of why the game looks “hard” for Mac Jones right now.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

“It does look hard for him [physically],” says one top executive from a team that played New England this year. “Mac came from Alabama—they ran the ball, they had the weapons outside, they had the play-action pass game, the anticipation, all those things. And the Patriots aren’t doing that with him because they don’t have the personnel. They’ve run some three tight-end stuff, and most people just run the ball from there, but they’re doing it looking for matchups, and throwing the ball with it, and that should tell you something.

“He’s a quick-trigger, efficient, rhythm-and-timing passer. If you’re playing a quick game and play-action with him, that’s great. If you have him sitting there processing, and throwing into tight spots, that’s not great. … And New England hasn’t drafted great. The offensive line is ehhhh. The receivers are ehhhh. And now they’re expecting a miracle from someone who needs good things around him. You can win with him. He won’t be the reason you win.”

This isn't wrong but reads like a fake source, or the "exec" is some random person low on the totem pole, to fit a narrative that is true to the eye but feels more compelling when you have a "source."

 

[Rob0729]

Inconsistent is 50 - 50 and not 75 - 25.

Look at it this way. Corky has played 4 games and wound up on the losing end 3 times.

Those are just the games they scored 12 points or less.

Both games against the Jets, they they had pick sixes. Without those defensive TDs, they scored 17 points and 14 points respectively.

Against Washington, they only scored 17 points in a loss.

Against the Giants, they scored 17 points in a win.

Against Miami in Miami, they only scored 13 points in regulation (a TD in overtime to bring it to 19 points).

Against Houston, they only scored 20 points in regulation.

In the division round, they only scored 17 points.

So there are 10 games that year, they didn't score more than 19 point on offense. That is more than half the season.

Again, I am not comparing Brady to Jones. Stop it. You are obsessed.

 

[Ivan]

Mac Jones Through Four Games (2023)
93/146 (63.7%) 898yds 5 TDs 4 INTs 7 Sacks | Record (1-3)
*Lost one contest by 35 points

Tom Brady Through Four Games (2003)
84/135 (62.2%) 848yds 5 TDs 7 INTs 10 Sacks | Record (2-2)
*Lost one contest by 31 points

Just looked it up for the heck of it and thought it was interesting.

Edit: One More:
Drew Bledsoe Through Four Games (1995)
100/205 1,058yds 0 TDs 5 INTs 7 Sacks
Record (1-3)
*Lost one contest by 25 points

The real problem isn’t the numbers, it’s the lack of making clutch plays that win games, and the inability to have big games against good opponents. Both Bledsoe and Brady showed they could win big games and have big games, Jones has done neither. I have generally been pretty supportive of him, but at a certain point he has to deliver, and that’s not happening. Maybe he will go on some unexpected tear where he turns into a good QB that wins consistently, but if he doesn’t I don’t see them picking up his option, and I do see them drafting a QB in the first round.

 

[Pats1971]

Do I need to explain how stats are different now than in 2001 for QB's or nah? Like in 2002 Brady's second year when he lead the league in td's with 28? If Mac was playing then, he might actually have -2 td's.

 

[Pats1971]

For all the talk of Brady winning 6 SBs, he didn't do crapola in the first AFC Champ game with the Steelers. Coincidentally, he was quoted as saying that it was the first game that he was scared for.

“That was the first game that I was scared. The moment was definitely bigger than I was ready for. From the start of the game, I was confused. I didn’t know what was coming. For as much as my ankle was hurting, I was scared, too.”

“Coach [Belichick] recognized that in me too. I think he probably looked at me and said, ‘Okay, Tom, we’re going to let someone else play the game’. Thank God Drew was there to come in and ended up playing basically the last two-and-a-half quarters of the game.”

Mac is in his 3rd year. Brady has 7 superbowls, he has more yards and td';s than any Qb ever. He has the most wins ever. Thats what he is....what is Mac? Why do people think that because Brady did something that means another Qb will auto do it? When Brady started playing in the 3rd week in 2001 the team started winning. We were 5-13 up to that point. You know.....winning? Stats are for fantasy football. I mean what next you compare Mac's first 3 years to Elway and say he is better than elway or he will become elway. This is really desperate and sad.

 

[Pats1971]

It is obviously not a fair comparison between Brady and Jones. No one can seriously use these stats to argue Jones is in the same stratosphere as Brady.

But does bring up the impact of Belichick on this team in the early days. Belichick is getting a lot of criticism now and deservedly so, but 2003 is an important year to show how great of a head coach Belichick was (I don't think he still is). Brady and the offense was average to above at best in 2003 and the Pats won with defense and outcoaching the other teams. That year the Pats were 12th in scoring, 15th in 3rd conversions, 17th in total yards, and 9th in passing yards. Brady himself was sixth yards, but 10th in TDs, 17th in passer rating, he was the 10th most sacked QB, and 16th in completion percentage. It wasn't a good year for Brady and the offense.

I know I am opening a can of worms here, but I think it is important to give Belichick some credit for his past greatness because so many people including myself are questioning his coaching abilities today. My take is that he was once the greatest coach ever (and 2003 supports that), but the game may have passed him by.

Tell me how the superbowl was won in 2003. I will wait.

 

[libra957]

Tbh stats wise if Mac had one of Brady's worst season, I will gladly take it.

 

[Jim Beankie]

Mac is in his 3rd year. Brady has 7 superbowls, he has more yards and td';s than any Qb ever. He has the most wins ever. Thats what he is....what is Mac? Why do people think that because Brady did something that means another Qb will auto do it? When Brady started playing in the 3rd week in 2001 the team started winning. We were 5-13 up to that point. You know.....winning? Stats are for fantasy football. I mean what next you compare Mac's first 3 years to Elway and say he is better than elway or he will become elway. This is really desperate and sad.

I'm not sure how this relates to my post, as it was a retrospective on Drew (pictured on the post I replied to) and Tom... you reply to the right person?

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Mac is in his 3rd year. Brady has 7 superbowls, he has more yards and td';s than any Qb ever. He has the most wins ever. Thats what he is....what is Mac? Why do people think that because Brady did something that means another Qb will auto do it? When Brady started playing in the 3rd week in 2001 the team started winning. We were 5-13 up to that point. You know.....winning? Stats are for fantasy football. I mean what next you compare Mac's first 3 years to Elway and say he is better than elway or he will become elway. This is really desperate and sad.

It just shows that QB's can improve over the years, will Mac? Don't know but it's [possible he gets better than he's shown so far.

 

[Rob0729]

Tell me how the superbowl was won in 2003. I will wait.

Unmmm…. I gave Brady credit for his play in the Super Bowl in another post, but it was the defense that got the Patriots’ the number one seed and to the Super Bowl. Without the defense, Brady would have never been in position to win a shootout in the Super Bowl. You do realize the Pats played 18 other games that season?

The league actually changed the rules of pass coverage because of the way the Patriots manhandled the Colts’ receivers in the AFCCG that year.

 

[Ivan]

It just shows that QB's can improve over the years, will Mac? Don't know but it's [possible he gets better than he's shown so far.

This is part of my issue with Jones. I’m not seeing the improvement, and when he was asked about what he did to improve between his 1st and 2nd seasons he said that he was eating less ice cream. Brady on the other hand understood immediately how much work he had to do to become a great QB, and set about working on every part of his game all year every year.

You don’t have to have a cannon to be a great QB, accuracy is far more important. But you do have to have enough pace on the ball to keep defenders from breaking up the pass or intercepting it. And the fact of the matter is that you can add strength and speed that throwing a football just as pitchers add speed, and golfers swing speed. I added 30-40 yards to my drives this season just by changing my swing completely, and I’m already doing the strength and speed training to try and add another 20-30 to it next season. I don’t see any evidence that Jones arm is any stronger now than it was as a rookie, and that’s really disappointing. And while I thought he was starting to make decisions quicker, and extend plays more often, there really doesn’t seem to be much improvement there either. So I guess my real issue with him is that I’m not seeing significant improvements in his game. And while Brady is an unfair comparison we saw dramatic improvements in every area of Brady’s game, except mobility, between his 1st and 3rd seasons. Brady then started to use boxing training to increase his elusiveness within the pocket because he knew he couldn’t do much about his foot speed by that point. He also was making quicker and better decisions, and developed a wicker release, all of which improved his overall game. I suppose it’s possible that Jones is working on these things in the off-season, but the only reports o have heard is that he’s at the facility more, not that he’s working on these aspects of his game. And it certainly isn’t showing up in his performances. It’s true that they need to improve his receiving corps, but it’s far from the worst in football, and their offense is going nowhere to this point.

 

[Pats1971]

Unmmm…. I gave Brady credit for his play in the Super Bowl in another post, but it was the defense that got the Patriots’ the number one seed and to the Super Bowl. Without the defense, Brady would have never been in position to win a shootout in the Super Bowl. You do realize the Pats played 18 other games that season?

The league actually changed the rules of pass coverage because of the way the Patriots manhandled the Colts’ receivers in the AFCCG that year.

So you are using fantasy land guessing to try and diminish Brady as QB while using fantasy land guessing to say why Mac will be great. Got it. I deal with actual reality, not guessing, not what you think would happen. I go by what happened. I understand you guys are trying very hard to make this case that Mac will be great and Brady did this so that means Mac will do this, even though its 23 years apart. But its all just drival. Flat out any comparisons from Mac to Brady is comical and insulting and trying to diminish Brady to build up Mac is even worse. There is a ton of things that go into winning and losing that a QB does. There is an absolute silly amount of things that Brady does from the QB position that changes the game. Some of it does not show up in stats, some does, but when Brady left, there was way more than just stats and talent that left with him. All of the line calls, all of the blocking calls, all of the leadership, all of the film study, all of what makes a player successful, all of that determination that a player will die on the field to win....left too. Its gone. Maybe one day Mac can be a decent Qb if you stack enough around him to win in spite of him. But he would have to become a different person and Qb to win because of him, he has not shown that is the case in 3 years, so that is the reality.

 

[Rob0729]

So you are using fantasy land guessing to try and diminish Brady as QB while using fantasy land guessing to say why Mac will be great. Got it. I deal with actual reality, not guessing, not what you think would happen. I go by what happened. I understand you guys are trying very hard to make this case that Mac will be great and Brady did this so that means Mac will do this, even though its 23 years apart. But its all just drival. Flat out any comparisons from Mac to Brady is comical and insulting and trying to diminish Brady to build up Mac is even worse. There is a ton of things that go into winning and losing that a QB does. There is an absolute silly amount of things that Brady does from the QB position that changes the game. Some of it does not show up in stats, some does, but when Brady left, there was way more than just stats and talent that left with him. All of the line calls, all of the blocking calls, all of the leadership, all of the film study, all of what makes a player successful, all of that determination that a player will die on the field to win....left too. Its gone. Maybe one day Mac can be a decent Qb if you stack enough around him to win in spite of him. But he would have to become a different person and Qb to win because of him, he has not shown that is the case in 3 years, so that is the reality.

Why do you guys consistently claim I say things that I don't?

Nothing I have said in this thread has anything to do with Mac Jones. Mac Jones have broken all you Mac haters brains and you think everything I post is some way tied to me trying to pump up Mac Jones. You guys are all f**cked in the head. Not everything here I post is about Mac Jones.

Here is what I first posted when I started to talk about the 2003 offense in this thread (which is the only thing I mentioned comparing Mac to Tom):

It is obviously not a fair comparison between Brady and Jones. No one can seriously use these stats to argue Jones is in the same stratosphere as Brady.

My point about the offense and defense in 2003 was pretty god damn clear. I was pointing out the impact Belichick in the early dynasty era because I have been trashing him for him for his coaching today. Again, nothing to do with Mac Jones. Absolutely nothing.

I won't comment on the rest of your post because once I saw you accusing me of trying to bring down Brady to pump up Mac Jones, I knew your post was the ravings of an insane person who I apparently live rent free in their head. No need to go down your meltdown rabbit hole.

I will type this slowly so you can understand me. Nothing. Absolutely nothing about Brady's career has anything to do with Mac Jones. What Brady did in 2003 has nothing to with what Mac is doing this year. They are different QBs. They played in different eras. Mac will never be 1/10000000000th the QB that Brady ever was and few were or are.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Dude…

Tom Brady for 2002 9-7 2003 14-2.

People would rejoice if mac could even come close to 9-7.

I don’t hate Mac, but honestly, his play was on full display for everyone to see. It was under a microscope once O’brien came here and the defense became elite again.

Through 4 games I’m sorry to the Mac fans but it doesn’t look good so far. Believe me, I was one of them who was on the fence and hoping for better things and a breakout of sorts. . Still am. How many of his turnovers have led to direct points already? Or just points. His play, the oline,wrs? whatever you want to blame it on has made incredible defensive efforts go down in vain. The Cowboys game with the 38 points? Rubbish, a pick 6, a defensive fumble recovery for a td and another turnover led to 17 or 21 points. You just cant do that to your defense and he did something similar in the Philly game.

It’s just unacceptable right now and I hope he gets better, but skewing stats and comparing him to other players is insane. Instead of comparing Mac to the Goat maybe we should set our standards lower and go with Zach Wilson instead. His odds are much better in that battle.