2005 Playoffs

[TheFlyingWedge]

Tom Brady owns the steelers. We beat Pittsburgh that year on the road, no way they would have beaten us in fox borough. We matched up great with Pitt.


We lost that postseason because we had to play Denver on the road...tom Brady's house of horrors.

The Brady era Patriots are 9-12 against the Steelers - pwnage.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Corey was still here. More than enough talent.

But, mental toughness wasn't there. Neither was Rodney.

Corey had a high ankle sprain. He lost his burst and never had gotten back

 

[PF_SU]

Corey had a high ankle sprain. He lost his burst and never had gotten back

What such an injury can do to a back. Dillon went from a 1600+ yards guy (in 15 games) with 4.7 YPC to a 700 yards guy (in 12 games) with 3.5 YPC. Though he still was an excellent goal line back.

 

[RobertWeathers]

What such an injury can do to a back. Dillon went from a 1600+ yards guy (in 15 games) with 4.7 YPC to a 700 yards guy (in 12 games) with 3.5 YPC. Though he still was an excellent goal line back.

He was. IIRC he had a decent 06 but also hurt his neck and put on a little weight. He was done.

 

[PF_SU]

He was. IIRC he had a decent 06 but also hurt his neck and put on a little weight. He was done.

800 yards with 4.1 YPC and 13 TDs while sharing duties with Maroney (the running game in 2005 really suffered from the lack of a second running back, wonder whether that was the trigger for Belichick to go committee). Was also 32 with like 2500 carries. So yeah, around 2005 he passed the cliff where many RBs drop-off.

 

[RobertWeathers]

800 yards with 4.1 YPC and 13 TDs while sharing duties with Maroney (the running game in 2005 really suffered from the lack of a second running back, wonder whether that was the trigger for Belichick to go committee). Was also 32 with like 2500 carries. So yeah, around 2005 he passed the cliff where many RBs drop-off.

BB is on record as saying he had no issues with a bell-cow RB.

He came close to using Maroney that way in the 2007 playoffs.

He essentially did use Ridley that way in the 2012 season.

They were using LG that way until Tom came back.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

If we beat Denver do you guys think we could of beaten the Steelers in the AFC Title game and if you think so what about us facing the Seahawks in SB40?

I remember alot of Pats fans hoping for a 3 peat which brings me to my next question, how close do you guys think we really we're to a 3 peat?

 

[IllegalContact]

the pats coughed up a hairball against denver.......17 points off of turnovers......they were goal to go to take the lead when bailey intercepted 17-6 instead of 10-13

steelers? beat them earlier, no reason to belive they would not do it again......**** happens

 

[SVN]

Tom Brady owns the steelers. We beat Pittsburgh that year on the road, no way they would have beaten us in fox borough. We matched up great with Pitt.


We lost that postseason because we had to play Denver on the road...tom Brady's house of horrors.

I still maintain that '05 defense and team was so underrated. They struggled early but by seasons end that defense was shut down.

28-3 in the wild card round with a defensive td. Sure it was jaxonville, but weve played alot of mediocre teams in the playoffs and only one other time have we held a team to 3.

They were pitching a shutout through almost a full half in denver until our offense started turning it over and the bs pi on samuel gave them first and goal. Without the turnovers the defense wins that game for us.

No doubt theyd have beaten pitt at home and i like our chances against matt Hasslebeck.

Sorry folks but that 05 team was average. Couldn't run the ball. Artrell Hawkins at safety. Asante wasn't Asante yet. Rookie Hobbs on the other side. Oline average.

We had monty beisel as our ILB and Duane Starks as our CB. We werent very good. Masked really by BB and Brady.

 

[PF_SU]

We had monty beisel as our ILB and Duane Starks as our CB. We werent very good. Masked really by BB and Brady.

Ty Law cut in the offseason, Harrison out with his knee getting shredded, Bruschi after a stroke, Seau not there yet. Yeah, they just lacked talent.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

We had monty beisel as our ILB and Duane Starks as our CB. We werent very good. Masked really by BB and Brady.

Both were replaced by midseason. If you think they werent that good as a whole you need to go back and watch how the defense performed down the stretch of the regular season, then allowing 3 pts in the first round, and how they were shutting down the donks until the turnover horror fest.

 

[FourierSeries]

The narrative that TB12 and the Pats struggle in Denver (unless Tim Tebow is playing).

Brady was undefeated in the playoffs until that game...and then came the heartbreaks:
2006 Indy choke (still hurts)
2007 Giants
2008 ACL
2009 blowout vs B'More
2010 home loss to Jets
2011 Giants
2012 AFCCG loss vs Ravens
2013 loss @Denver
2014 we came full circle

The playoff losses and SB drought was bookended by losses @Denver.
The narrative is fact.

Those losses in between have nothing to do with losses at Denver. That's one of the most absurd things I've seen posted on this forum.

As for the losses in Denver, let's take a look at 6 of them:

2001: Brady's first year as a starter
2005: two losses; the team wasn't very good
2013: missing multiple top players on both sides of the ball
2015: two losses; NE had among the most man games lost due to injury

None of the aforementioned had anything specifically to do with venue.

 

[brdmaverick]

I always felt like 2005 was one of our more underrated seasons when it comes to us winning another SB, everyone always mentions the obvious years but it seems like most people forget how close we really we're to a 3 peat in 2005

The team wasn't anywhere close talent wise with guys like Monty Biesel, Chad Johnson, Duane Starks, and Michael Stone getting signifcant playing time. We started the year at 5-5 with some ugly losses, we only got into a bit of a groove late in the year.

But even with that, we still had a team that could have won it all that year based on how the rest of the playoffs would have worked out. Of course, for a team that won the prior two seasons that sounds like sour grapes to me. After all, how many times have Colts fans said 'we would have won this year and that year if we just won THAT game'.....but the thing is that they didn't win the game.

 

[brdmaverick]

I guess I'll say this - I don't think the '05 team was any more 'average' or 'not very good' by most conventional metrics, or any less equipped to win the Super Bowl than the '01 team was.

I have no problem acknowledging to anyone that the 2001 Patriots team was probably one of the worst Super Bowl winning teams in the past 20 years (tougher to compare teams of different eras). Furthrmore, there have been MANY teams that have been better than the 2001 Pats that did NOT win the Super Bowl.

I don't mean any disrespect to the team but it's the truth. In fact in a weird way I think that is backwards complement to the team for getting the most out of the least (and isn't the true genius of Belichick?)

 

[patriot1136]

I have to be honest, i don't fully remember the 2005 season as well as all of you. I'm going to see if I can find some highlights on youtube or something.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I have no problem acknowledging to anyone that the 2001 Patriots team was probably one of the worst Super Bowl winning teams in the past 20 years (tougher to compare teams of different eras). Furthrmore, there have been MANY teams that have been better than the 2001 Pats that did NOT win the Super Bowl.

I don't mean any disrespect to the team but it's the truth. In fact in a weird way I think that is backwards complement to the team for getting the most out of the least (and isn't the true genius of Belichick?)

I think history has proven that is an incorrect statement.

The core of that coaching staff and team were made up of future HoFers, All-Pros and solid veterans.

Nobody knew who they were yet.

 

[SVN]

Both were replaced by midseason. If you think they werent that good as a whole you need to go back and watch how the defense performed down the stretch of the regular season, then allowing 3 pts in the first round, and how they were shutting down the donks until the turnover horror fest.

Maybe. But their last 5 games were vs Jetsx2 who went 4-12, bills who went 5-11,bucs and dolphins. And the colts beat us 40-21 at gillete which never had happened before vs manning.
Plus the jags at home in the playoffs. Sure they played as well as they could but I personally thought that team wasnt deep enough to cause issues to major teams. Sure they couldve won in denver but thats a different story. Denver wasnt good either that year and lucked out hosting the AFCCG thanks to mr 1 and done choking again. Just my opinion.

 

[brdmaverick]

I think history has proven that is an incorrect statement.

The core of that coaching staff and team were made up of future HoFers, All-Pros and solid veterans.

Nobody knew who they were yet.

If you are going to highlight the statement "the 2001 Pats were one of the worst five Super Bowl teams in the past 20 years" and call it an incorrect statement the least you could have done was give me five Super Bowl winning teams within the past 20 years that this Pats team would have beaten in a head to head matchup. Or at least tell me where you would rank this team out the past 20 Super Bowl winners.

Here's you go, I'll serve up the teams for you.......

SB31 Packers
32 Broncos
33 Broncos
34 Rams
35 Ravens
36 Pats
37 Buccaneers
38 Pats
39 Pats
40 Steelers
41 Colts
42 Giatns
43 Steelers
44 Saints
45 Packers
46 Giants
47 Ravens
48 Seahawks
49 Patriots
50 Broncos


Those HOFers you speak about....I'll give you Ty Law but Tom Brady at the time was not the MVP worthy Tom Brady of today.

Seymour I'll concede was All Pro worthy.

Other than that guys like Vrabel and Bruschi were good, but every Super Bowl winning team has someone of their caliber. Or were you referring to Troy Brown, Lawyer Milloy, Bobby Hamliton, Marc Edwards, or Antowain Smith?

Let's face it, the team isn't a great Super Bowl winning team, but that's ok, b/c to be in teh conversation you have to be A SUPER BOWL WINNING TEAM. So I don't care if they are the worst team of all time, they won the Super Bowl and that's all I need.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Maybe. But their last 5 games were vs Jetsx2 who went 4-12, bills who went 5-11,bucs and dolphins. And the colts beat us 40-21 at gillete which never had happened before vs manning.
Plus the jags at home in the playoffs. Sure they played as well as they could but I personally thought that team wasnt deep enough to cause issues to major teams. Sure they couldve won in denver but thats a different story. Denver wasnt good either that year and lucked out hosting the AFCCG thanks to mr 1 and done choking again. Just my opinion.

Yeah They were def not that good in the first part of the season, i do remember we got crushed by colts and chargers. Injuries , ted j retired, and bruschis stroke were a ton to overcome. But i did think they rebounded nicely and the d was pretty fierce come playoff time.

Like i said it is jax but still how often do we hold teams to 3 in a playoff game, and weve played some mediocre teams over the years. And the game in mile high i feel would have been another defensive clinic wothout the turnovers. Not many pts in that game can truly be pinned on the d.

 

[RobertWeathers]

If you are going to highlight the statement "the 2001 Pats were one of the worst five Super Bowl teams in the past 20 years" and call it an incorrect statement the least you could have done was give me five Super Bowl winning teams within the past 20 years that this Pats team would have beaten in a head to head matchup. Or at least tell me where you would rank this team out the past 20 Super Bowl winners.

Here's you go, I'll serve up the teams for you.......

SB31 Packers
32 Broncos
33 Broncos
34 Rams
35 Ravens
36 Pats
37 Buccaneers
38 Pats
39 Pats
40 Steelers
41 Colts
42 Giatns
43 Steelers
44 Saints
45 Packers
46 Giants
47 Ravens
48 Seahawks
49 Patriots
50 Broncos


Those HOFers you speak about....I'll give you Ty Law but Tom Brady at the time was not the MVP worthy Tom Brady of today.

Seymour I'll concede was All Pro worthy.

Other than that guys like Vrabel and Bruschi were good, but every Super Bowl winning team has someone of their caliber. Or were you referring to Troy Brown, Lawyer Milloy, Bobby Hamliton, Marc Edwards, or Antowain Smith?

Let's face it, the team isn't a great Super Bowl winning team, but that's ok, b/c to be in teh conversation you have to be A SUPER BOWL WINNING TEAM. So I don't care if they are the worst team of all time, they won the Super Bowl and that's all I need.

I'm not going to get into a debate if the 01 team was better than the 2005 Pittsburgh Steelers. I hate those and it's irreverent to me. I do take exception to those who say that the 01 team was a low-end SB champion because its not true. The talent level disputes that premise.

I look at the core players and how good they were and what they accomplished.

If you look at the 03 and 04 teams..even 05 and 06 ones, the core of the 01 team was the core of those teams. Be default, they were good. The talent was there. The team was there.

Yes- Brady was not "Brady" only because for the most part they kept the training wheels on him. When they took the training wheels off (See Snow Bowl, final drive) he was "Brady". Clearly he had the talent and it showed up when they needed it.

As you can see, the 01 team was full of chock full of better than average players who are future HoF, past, 2001 or future probowlers or had solid NFL careers in bold.

HOF 4 Adam Vinatieri, K
fmr ProBowler 11 Drew Bledsoe, QB 6-5 240 2/14/72 9 Washington State
HOF 12 Tom Brady, QB 6-4 220 8/3/77 2 Michigan
13 Ken Walter, P 6-1 195 8/15/72 5 Kent State
15 Jimmy Farris, WR 6-0 200 4/13/78 R Montana
19 Damon Huard, QB 6-3 220 7/9/73 5 Washington
21 J.R. Redmond, RB 5-11 215 9/28/77 2 Arizona State
22 Terrance Shaw, CB 5-11 200 11/11/73 7 Stephen F Austin
23 Antwan Harris, S 5-9 192 5/29/77 2 Virginia
ProBowler maybe HoF 24 Ty Law, CB 5-11 199 2/10/74 7 Michigan
25 Leonard Myers, CB 5-10 195 12/18/78 R Miami (Fla)
decent pro 26 Matt Stevens, S 6-0 205 6/15/73 5 Appalachian State
Solid career 50 career INTs 27 Terrell Buckley, CB 5-9 176 6/7/71 10 Florida State
solid ST 30 Je'Rod Cherry, DB 6-1 205 5/30/73 6 California
solid career 32 Antowain Smith, RB 6-2 230 3/14/72 5 Houston
Solid career 33 Kevin Faulk, RB 5-8 202 6/5/76 3 Louisiana State
1st rd pick 34 Tebucky Jones, S 6-2 218 10/6/74 4 Syracuse
solid 35 Patrick Pass, FB 5-10 217 12/31/77 2 Georgia
ProBowler 36 Lawyer Milloy, S 6-0 207 11/14/73 6 Washington
solid career 44 Marc Edwards, FB 6-0 245 11/17/74 5 Notre Dame
solid career 29 career picks 45 Otis Smith, CB 5-11 196 10/22/65 12 Missouri
48 Arthur Love, TE 6-4 250 9/18/77 R South Carolina State
probowler 50 Mike Vrabel, LB 6-4 250 8/14/75 5 Ohio State
fmr probowler 51 Bryan Cox, LB 6-4 250 2/17/68 11 Western Illinois
solid career 52 Ted Johnson, MLB 6-4 253 12/4/72 7 Colorado
probowler 53 Larry Izzo, LB 5-10 228 9/26/74 6 Rice
probowler 54 Tedy Bruschi, LB 6-1 245 6/9/73 6 Arizona
probowler 55 Willie McGinest, DE 6-5 270 12/11/71 8 Southern California
solid backup and ST 58 Matt Chatham, LB 6-4 250 6/28/77 2 South Dakota
solid career 61 Stephen Neal, T 6-4 290 9/10/76 R Cal State-Bakersfield
solid career 63 Joe Andruzzi, G 6-3 315 8/23/75 5 So. Connecticut State
64 Greg Robinson-Randall, T 6-5 322 6/23/78 2 Michigan State
solid career 65 Damien Woody, C 6-3 320 11/3/77 3 Boston College
solid 66 Lonie Paxton, LS 6-2 260 3/13/78 2 Sacramento State
67 Grey Ruegamer, C/G 6-5 300 6/1/76 2 Arizona State
71 Chris Sullivan, DT 6-4 285 3/14/73 6 Boston College
probowler 72 Matt Light, T 6-4 305 6/23/78 R Purdue
74 Kenyatta Jones, G 6-3 305 1/18/79 R South Florida
76 Grant Williams, T 6-7 320 5/10/74 6 Louisiana Tech
solid career 77 Mike Compton, G/C 6-6 310 9/18/70 9 West Virginia
pro bowler 80 Troy Brown, WR 5-10 193 7/2/71 9 Marshall
fmr 1000yd receiver 81 Charles Johnson, WR 6-0 205 1/3/72 8 Colorado
83 Rod Rutledge, TE 6-5 265 8/12/75 4 Alabama
84 Fred Coleman, WR 6-0 190 1/31/75 1 Washington
decent career 85 Jermaine Wiggins, TE 6-2 255 1/18/75 2 Georgia
solid career 86 David Patten, WR 5-10 190 8/19/74 5 Western Carolina
solid career 91 Bobby Hamilton, DE 6-5 280 1/7/71 6 Southern Mississippi
92 David Nugent, DE 6-4 295 10/27/77 2 Purdue
probowler 93 Richard Seymour, DE 6-6 305 10/6/79 R Georgia
solid career 95 Roman Phifer, LB 6-2 248 3/5/68 11 UCLA
96 Brandon Mitchell, DE 6-3 280 6/19/75 5 Texas A&M
97 Riddick Parker, DT 6-3 295 11/20/72 5 North Carolina
solid career 98 Anthony Pleasant, DE 6-5 280 1/27/68 12 Tennessee State
HoF Bill Belichick.

The overall point is that this team had outstanding talent that was either unknown, evolving or already there that was maximized by a great system and for the last couple of months in 2001, it all came together and stayed that way.

The win 12 or their last 15, iinc 9 in a row and allow 14ppg over that span. The beat next years SB finalist in OAK that was in the AFCCG in 2000, a 13-3 team w/ #1 defense on the road and a 14-2 team that won the SB 2 years prior with the top 5 offesne in the history of the NFL.

What more does the 2001 NEP have to do to get respect? It drives me nuts

It certainly was not a "Bad News Bears" situation where they had a bunch of crappy players but had a great hitter and pitcher that carried a team.