17-game NFL regular season?

[Michigan Dave]

I think that there are more inter conference "Natural Rivals" than you are giving Credit for.

Tampa Bay / Miami
Carolina/Jacksonville
Seahawks/Chargers or Chargers/Cardinals or Seahawks/Patriots
Buffalo/Detroit
Chicago / Indy
Chiefs/Rams

That accounts for 22 of 32 teams and I am not even really trying.

Well, I went through and tried to figure out games that made obvious sense, some sense, and then 'the rest.'

Obvious:

NYJ-NYG
DAL-HOU
PHI-PIT (while not close, they hate each other)
WAS-BAL
CHI-IND
KC-STL
OAK-SF

Some sense:

DET-CLE
ATL-JAC
TEN-CAR (or, JAC-CAR in the expansion-year rivalry, ATL-TEN making less sense)
MIA-TB

Eh, they were left over:

NO-SD
DEN-MIN
NE-GB
CIN-AZ
BUF-SEA

 

[QuiGon]

I think that there are more inter conference "Natural Rivals" than you are giving Credit for.

Tampa Bay / Miami

250 miles. That's kind of pushing it.

Carolina/Jacksonville
Seahawks/Chargers or Chargers/Cardinals or Seahawks/Patriots

Where is the "natural rivalry" in any of those games..? Seahawks-Patriots..?

Buffalo/Detroit

250 miles. You don't really think the fans of the Lions are clamoring for a big rivalry with the fans of the Bills, do you..?

Chicago / Indy

This is one I would consider a legit "natural" rivalry.

Chiefs/Rams

Again, 250 miles.

That accounts for 22 of 32 teams and I am not even really trying.

Considering the quality of your ideas, I would suggest you try.

 

[DaBruinz]

Well, I went through and tried to figure out games that made obvious sense, some sense, and then 'the rest.'

Obvious:

NYJ-NYG
DAL-HOU
PHI-PIT (while not close, they hate each other)
WAS-BAL
CHI-IND
KC-STL
OAK-SF

Some sense:

DET-CLE
ATL-JAC
TEN-CAR (or, JAC-CAR in the expansion-year rivalry, ATL-TEN making less sense)
MIA-TB

Eh, they were left over:

NO-SD
DEN-MIN
NE-GB
CIN-AZ
BUF-SEA

Dave - the reason I mentioned Buffalo and Detroit was because of the Canadian Highway that basically runs between the two.

Also, San Diego/Arizona makes a lot of sense from a geographic stand-point.

Not sure why ATL/TEN makes less sense to you.

But, I agree that once you get past 20 teams or so, you have a hard time creating rivalries.

 

[QuiGon]

Well, I went through and tried to figure out games that made obvious sense, some sense, and then 'the rest.'

Obvious:

NYJ-NYG
DAL-HOU
PHI-PIT (while not close, they hate each other)
WAS-BAL
CHI-IND
KC-STL
OAK-SF

It seems you consider it a "natural rivalry" if two teams happen to be located geographically in the same state. I am not sure I agree. What I see in the above is 8 teams where there is a true "natural rivalry" and then 24 teams that are being shoe-horned into an unnatural rivalry. It ain't going to happen because, unlike MLB, the NFL doesn't need such gimmicks to sell tickets.

 

[DaBruinz]

250 miles. That's kind of pushing it.
Where is the "natural rivalry" in any of those games..? Seahawks-Patriots..?
250 miles. You don't really think the fans of the Lions are clamoring for a big rivalry with the fans of the Bills, do you..?
This is one I would consider a legit "natural" rivalry.
Again, 250 miles.
Considering the quality of your ideas, I would suggest you try.

Really? 250 miles is pushing it? Guess you aren't aware of the tens of thousands of fans who travel every week to games to watch their teams play another team. Hell, there are plenty of Pats Season ticket holders who drive more than 250 miles to watch the Pats play.

QuiGon, considering the quality of your rebuttle, I really don't have to try.

 

[QuiGon]

Really? 250 miles is pushing it?

Yeah, it is, if you want to consider something a "natural rivalry". There are 8 teams where a cross-conference "natural rivalry" would make sense because the two teams are in each other's immediate vicinity. The rest is just nonsense shoe-horned in.

Guess you aren't aware of the tens of thousands of fans who travel every week to games to watch their teams play another team. Hell, there are plenty of Pats Season ticket holders who drive more than 250 miles to watch the Pats play.

Congratulations for stumbling onto the point I've been making all along: The NFL doesn't need fabricated gimmicks to sell out stadiums.

QuiGon, considering the quality of your rebuttle, I really don't have to try.

Whatever. I just want to hear you explain how New England versus Seattle is a "natural rivalry". Please don't deprive me of what I am sure will be a barrell of laughs.

EDIT: Wait, let me guess... Seahawks-Patriots is a great "natural rivalry" because they are both located off I-90...? We can call it the "Mass Pike Series".

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

I would prefer 18 regular season games and 2 pre-season games.

As far as playing out of the country, I am against it.

Unlike other sports, like basketball and soccer/futbol, which are much more portable, football is just too much of a hassle to transport effectively.

You have tight time scheudles, practices, equipment, jet lag screwing up state side games played in front of real fans. To that point, I really don't think the rest of the world gives a rat's arse about "our" football.

The NFL is the NATIONAL football league. Keep it in this NATION, willyapuleaze?!?!?!

Damn, I don't even like the Cardinals being in Phoneix and not Saint Louie or the Baltimore Colts playing in High School Basketball / Race Car country, fahcrisesakes!!

Now they want to send the Patriots to friggin' Beijing?!?!?!

Fahghetaboudit!

ADPF

 

[DaBruinz]

Yeah, it is, if you want to consider something a "natural rivalry". There are 8 teams where a cross-conference "natural rivalry" would make sense because the two teams are in each other's immediate vicinity. The rest is just nonsense shoe-horned in.

Its only "shoe horned" in because that is your limited opinion on the subject.

Congratulations for stumbling onto the point I've been making all along: The NFL doesn't need fabricated gimmicks to sell out stadiums.

The whole schedule was a fabricated gimmick to begin with. They needed it to get fannies into the new stadiums for the new teams that entered the league. There were PLENTY of people OUTRAGED at the whole idea of the 8 year schedule where only 2 games wouldn't be decided until the end of each season. So stop kidding yourself.

Whatever. I just want to hear you explain how New England versus Seattle is a "natural rivalry". Please don't deprive me of what I am sure will be a barrell of laughs.

EDIT: Wait, let me guess... Seahawks-Patriots is a great "natural rivalry" because they are both located off I-90...? We can call it the "Mass Pike Series".

Man, you truly have a hair across your arse today QuiGon.

Oh, as for the Seahawks/Patriots, I thought it would be a good rivalry since it had been the scheduled China Bowl match-up. Also, if you think about the quality of the teams, it would make for a great football game.

 

[Michigan Dave]

Dave - the reason I mentioned Buffalo and Detroit was because of the Canadian Highway that basically runs between the two.

Also, San Diego/Arizona makes a lot of sense from a geographic stand-point.

Not sure why ATL/TEN makes less sense to you.

But, I agree that once you get past 20 teams or so, you have a hard time creating rivalries.

True, Detroit has more of a rivalry with Cleveland though (Ohio/Michigan), and the Pistons-Cavs and Tigers-Tribe are kind of rivals. We don't really have anything with Buffalo in Michigan, so it's more natural.

SD-AZ. Makes perfect sense. I had a brainfart on that one.

I had TEN-CAR and JAC-ATL, for geographic reasons (bordering states), but it may make sense for CAR-JAC to play, and I threw TEN-ATL together just because there was nowhere else to put them. They're in the south...

 

[DaBruinz]

True, Detroit has more of a rivalry with Cleveland though (Ohio/Michigan), and the Pistons-Cavs and Tigers-Tribe are kind of rivals. We don't really have anything with Buffalo in Michigan, so it's more natural.

Good points. Forgot about the other rivalries there.

SD-AZ. Makes perfect sense. I had a brainfart on that one.

I had TEN-CAR and JAC-ATL, for geographic reasons (bordering states), but it may make sense for CAR-JAC to play, and I threw TEN-ATL together just because there was nowhere else to put them. They're in the south...

*nod*

 

[QuiGon]

Its only "shoe horned" in because that is your limited opinion on the subject.

Now, now, no reason to get all snippy and pissy. I respectfully disagree with you and this is how you respond. Real mature.

The whole schedule was a fabricated gimmick to begin with. They needed it to get fannies into the new stadiums for the new teams that entered the league. There were PLENTY of people OUTRAGED at the whole idea of the 8 year schedule where only 2 games wouldn't be decided until the end of each season. So stop kidding yourself.

Gee, ya know, I was around all the way back then in the early 2000's and I don't remember any sort of outrage or anger at the new schedule. If anything, i remember tons of people saying how much they liked it and how much it made sense.

Man, you truly have a hair across your arse today QuiGon.

Now, now, no reason to get all snippy and pissy. I respectfully disagree with you and this is how you respond. Real mature

Oh, as for the Seahawks/Patriots, I thought it would be a good rivalry since it had been the scheduled China Bowl match-up. Also, if you think about the quality of the teams, it would make for a great football game.

Seattle-New England may very well become a great rivalry. But I just don't see them as a "natural" rivalry. I think the term "natural rivalry" implies some sort of immediate geographical proximity. We're just going to have to agree to disagree on what "natural rivalry" means. Meanwhile, I won't resort to your level of pissiness in this forum.

 

[DaBruinz]

Now, now, no reason to get all snippy and pissy. I respectfully disagree with you and this is how you respond. Real mature.

This coming from the guy who ended his 1st reply with a snippy pissy comment.

You are the one who started the pissiness in this thread. But you can pretend otherwise.

 

[QuiGon]

This coming from the guy who ended his 1st reply with a snippy pissy comment.

What comment was that..? An offhanded remark where you wrote "I am not even really trying" so I responded with "I would suggest you try"...? That comment sent you off ranting and raving..? Kinda sensitive, dont'cha think..?

You are the one who started the pissiness in this thread. But you can pretend otherwise.

Ah yes, the "YOU STARTED IT!" defense, preferred by 1st and 2nd graders everywhere. I rest my case.

Out of respect to the other readers in this forum, I will not be responding to any more posts of yours in this thread unless you return to the subject at hand. Beyond that, we shall just have to agree to disagree on what constitutes a "natural rivalry". 'Cuz I just don't see much "natural" about a rivalry between Seattle and New England.

 

[brdmaverick]

I'm a big proponent of the 17th game if they make it an inter-conference rivalry game. It's silly that natural rivals across conferences only play once every 4 years. Imagine if these were annual games--it'd be awesome.
Jets-Giants
Steelers-Eagles
Raiders-49ers
Skins-Ravens
Dallas-Houston
...

Most teams in the league could come up with a natural inter-conference rival based on geography--the Patriots are among the few teams without anything close. But if those few teams could just live with it, the many excellent rivalries would greatly add to the season.

I actually like that idea, much the same way that baseball established inter-league play.

 

[spacecrime]

Man, you truly have a hair across your arse today QuiGon.

Undoubtably caused by reading a lot of extremely stupid posts about natural rivalries that don't exist.

Buffalo and Detroit are natural rivals because there is a Canadian highway between them.

NE and GB natural rivals because ... umm, because unlike most NFL teams they don't have a good three-letter abbreviation like SEA or ARI or BUF or CHI or zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Michigan Dave]

It seems you consider it a "natural rivalry" if two teams happen to be located geographically in the same state. I am not sure I agree. What I see in the above is 8 teams where there is a true "natural rivalry" and then 24 teams that are being shoe-horned into an unnatural rivalry. It ain't going to happen because, unlike MLB, the NFL doesn't need such gimmicks to sell tickets.

The NFL doesn't need gimmicks. I think you misunderstand that because I had a couple of minutes to think through what would likely be proposed, that I am for this idea. I am not, really. I see no need for the 17th game. I'm just saying for sake of discussion in April, that's what makes sense. Of the games I feel are obvious "interleague style" rivalries, 5 of the 7 are legit.

NYJ-NYG- legit rivalry
DAL-HOU- legit rivalry (NFL pushes this, and Texans side is more identifiable with this rivalry)
PHI-PIT (these 2 hate each other. Ask any Pats fan who was in a Steeler bar in Pit pre 05 AFCCG when the Eagles were playing in the NFCCG.)
WAS-BAL- they hate each other in baseball, but I don't know the cities too well. This seems to fit.
CHI-IND- more of a geographical fit, with some history now that they played in the SB. Ind-BAL is a possibility, too.
KC-STL- Again, strong rivalry between the 2 cities. Also exists in baseball.
OAK-SF- See above.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

I don't like the idea either. I like keeping things status quo.

 

[Isaac]

One note: Dan Rooney (Steelers) has been pushing this idea for years, so it's certainly not my idea and most definately not profootballtalk's idea. I think that if this happened some of the rivalries would have to build over time. But yes, a few teams, probably including the Patriots, would end up traveling long distances to play a team/city that they may never actually develop a rivalry with (but who knows).

QuiGon--you apparently haven't lived in PA, or ever been to PA, or ever met anyone from PA, or ever heard of PA, if you think that there isn't a rivalry between Pittsburgh and Philly due to the distance!

 

[Miguel]

Here's my biggest problem with the 17-game schedule.

16 teams will have 9 home games.
16 teams will have 9 road games.

That could affect who makes the playoffs and/or playoff seeding.

 

[QuiGon]

QuiGon--you apparently haven't lived in PA, or ever been to PA, or ever met anyone from PA, or ever heard of PA, if you think that there isn't a rivalry between Pittsburgh and Philly due to the distance!

I don't think people are getting my point. I am not saying there isn't a rivalry between these teams, I am talking about the term "natural rivalry". I guess we just don't agree with what it means, so let me explain to you what I consider a "natural rivalry":

2 teams in immediate geographical proximity to each other (like, you could draw circles with a 50 mile radius around each team's home and those circles would overlap). Fans of each team regularly go to the same schools, the same workplaces, the same everyday environments. Walk down the street and see just as many fans of one team as the other.

Obviously, great rivalries can exist without geographical proximity - I just don't consider those to be "natural rivalries". Philly and Pittsburgh may very well be a great rivalry, but that's because of the history there. I also consider Dallas and Pittsburgh to be a good rivalry. Lakers-Celtics. Or Cowboys-Redskins. Even Patriots-Colts has become a very good rivalry of late.

MLB did the smart thing by dumping their entire concept of "natural rival" for teams where it was just two cities being shoe-horned in together. So the Yankees still play the Mets every year, but fortunately the Red Sox aren't playing the Braves every year like they used to.

There are 8 NFL teams where a great natural rivalry would exist, and 24 cities where it would just be shoe-horning things in to fit. I don't consider Detroit and Buffalo to be "natural rivals" because there's a highway that runs through Canada connecting them. Nor do I consider Seattle and NE to be "natural rivals".