Can we now start to think the whole “Kraft is cheap” was more of a Belichick philosophy?

zoostation said:

Besides Huard, who became a veteran mentor to Brady early on, which one of these players didn't contribute to the championship run, in your mind??

2001 Patriot Free Agents:
CB Terrell Buckley: Signed to strengthen the secondary.
G Mike Compton: Provided stability on the offensive line.
LB Bryan Cox: Provided veteran leadership to the defense.
FB Marc Edwards: Signed from Cleveland.
QB Damon Huard: Signed from Miami
LB Larry Izzo: Stolen from Miami
WR David Patten: Provided a playmaker at receiver.
LB Roman Phifer
DE Anthony Pleasant: Added depth and experience to the defensive line.
RB Antowain Smith: Key offseason addition to the backfield.
LB Mike Vrabel: Signed from Pittsburgh; became a defensive cornerstone.
DL Stephen Neal: Signed as a free agent from a wrestling background

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Pape said:

"Cheap"

Is RKK "Cheap"? was BB "Cheap"? eh, does it really matter?

I am sure I have said it in the past about both of them... in essence though, the Patriots (by extension it includes the ownership and/or the current managerial team) are not cheap... what they are is fiscally responsible...

I believe under the Belichick tenure the team did develop a budget process which was used to create spending caps relative to the current economics of the NFL (the Cap) for each specific position relative to the needs of the team year in year out... This framework was used as guidance for contract dollars when signing or re-signing players... seasonal variations that take into consideration the loss of talent that the team was unable to replace through the draft or free agency - which is why every few years the Pats tend to make a splash in Free Agency, like they did last year...

I do think that the Patriots use this framework to keep spending in check... It may look at times like we have spent big, or are up against the cap, in reality the team never is... there are always avenues to adjust contracts to drop the cap numbers if it is needed... since the Patriots exercise a strict fiscal policy in the front office, that does not happen all too often... we are more likely to cut a player vs alter their deals... we spent "big" last year, and basically shed a number of those "big contracts" or didn't re-sign players this year...

The team within the next two seasons, will have two major deals to renegotiate - Gonzales and Maye... While there is some flexibility there (5th year options) eventually both will need to be addressed... When the contracts come due in a few seasons, then we will know who really controls the money at 1 Patriot Place... and if the Pats are truly "cheap"...

if Gonzales walks or is traded, cheap would fit... and we would know who is responsible...

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Rob0729 said:

And you can argue that Kraft gets poor grades for spending too much. Kraft bought his team plane for tens of millions of dollars while every other team except one charters their planes which is cheaper. The players would be more comfortable in chartered jets and Kraft would have saved money. And Kraft is building a state of the art training facilty. And is one of the only owners to build his stadium without public money.

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h0c2000 said:

I will ponder this question over a bologna sandwich.

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Family said:

A cheap owner wouldn't have eaten Mayo's contract after one year.

Mayo was bad, but a good argument could have been made to keep him another year.

It's clear Kraft really wants to win.

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Rob0729 said:

Other than the players you listed, who left for big money during those years. Back then, players wanted to get franchise tagged because they knew they could make more with the franchise tag than in free agency (at least for the short term).

And who cares what the NFLPA voted on? Every year, they vote to give Kraft an F on his plane, but no owner has spent more on plane flights for their players than Bob Kraft. None.

And when did I blame other fans for anything? You die hard Belichick defenders are the softest, most insecure people here. You take any remote slight against Belichick as an personal affront to you. It is the same BS we see in politics. I have repeatedly praised Belichick in this thread for some genius work acquiring players who impacted Super Bowl seasons on the cheap. But yet you, consistently call me a Belichick hater.

For the record, the die hard Brady defenders call be a Brady hater because I give Belichick more credit than Brady for the first half of the Patriots dynasty. I don't hate Belichick. He is the GOAT. He wasn't perfect. He made a lot of mistakes especially at GM. To recognize those mistakes, is hating on him.

This is the problem with both groups. You don't read what people write. You take anything can conceive as negative against your guy as a personal attack of you. And you throw around the same wild accusations you claim people like me are saying about you towards people like me.

And let's face it. You don't like Kraft and a lot of it has to do primarily because how it ended with Belichick.

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mike_usagisan said:

Right, and those big deals are going to shift the budget that's available for other positions. The only way to make it work with a franchise QB on a big-money deal is to hit on those players in the draft and get undervalued vets. That's when people will seriously start calling the Pats cheap!

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Hugepatsfan said:

I feel like Belichick just managed it very "cash to cap". He didn't kick the can or use void years or any of the other cap math lots of other teams do. So his cash spending was only low because other teams, especially now, are borrowing money from half a decade out to improve today.

So far, Pats haven't been using those tricks since he left either. No void years or excessive bonus structures. Cash spending just seems to be up because the roster was BARREN when they took over so they had to sign lots of outside guys which naturally means signing bonus in year 1. That will "correct itself" once the roster starts being more stable. All indications I see are that they will continue to be relatively cash to cap and aren't going to engage in the sort of "go for it now" windows that other teams do.

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TheRainMaker said:

That's not the point. You initially said the Pats were "top spenders in 2001". All of these guys you mentioned where discarded players who were bargain bin signings. They needed to sign a bunch of players to fill out their roster BB had recently dismantled.

And their contribution would've been a moot point had Bledsoe played the entire season or they didn't have a last place schedule. People conveniently forget that the Pats went 2-4 with Brady against teams with a record of .500 and above during the regular season. They beat up on losing teams after Brady took over which Bledsoe couldn't do losing to one of the worst teams in the league in week 1. Had the Pats gone 9-7 with Bledsoe (and I'm being generous), they would've lost the tie breaker to Seattle and missed the playoffs.

By the way, Stephen Neal didn't play in 2001.

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Wozzy said:

Fans didn’t call Kraft cheap. You’ve been proven wrong this entire thread, about free agency taking years to catch on, about “cheap” being a Belichick thing. Now you’re dancing. Parcells and Carroll just happened to be “cheap” as well.

Now I hate Kraft lol? I didn’t convince the entire NFLPA to vote the way they did, I didn’t coerce Pete Carroll to say what he did.

Stop sniffing glue. You’re a known BB hater, this thread is just an extension of that.

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stinkypete said:

The cheap label was largely unwarranted until Brady left. The dynasty era teams spent to the cap and rosters were almost always deeply stocked. The perception of cheapness was driven by a philosophy that valued depth over acquiring transcendent players, and that largely worked.

The cheap label was very fairly applied from 2020-2024. The team made little to no attempt to restructure contracts to allow for free agency spending when it could have. This wound was self-inflicted by Kraft.

I wonder if Kraft the outcome of the 2021 free agency spree influenced Kraft to refuse to spend. Could he have looked at the team and told Bill “this is your mess, I’m not spending another $200 million to help you clean it up.”? In hindsight, 2022-2024 feels more and more like an intentional cap purge.

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Rob0729 said:

You really are the epitome of what is wrong with this country. You don’t debate with people. You just create arguments to fit your agenda and then argue against that. And you just repeat the same talking points over and over again as if it means something. Hey, did you hear the NFLPA and Pete Carrol said Kraft was cheap? Bring something new to the argument.

I haven’t been wrong all this thread. You twisted things I said to try to prove I am wrong. I assume you are a frequent poster on X since that is what everyone does there.

I am not a known Belichick hater. You being in the cult of Belichick look at me that way because I dare speak ill of Dear Leader Belichick.

I have praised Belichick more in this thread than I have said anything bad about him. And I don’t even think his cap management was necessarily a bad thing. I am just pointing out Kraft got labeled with a cheap moniker because of it.

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Ring 6 said:

Do people really think this years off season has been a signing spree?
We had something like 60 mill in cap space.
Many of the deals we signed are 1 year and the rest 3 years.

Cheap isn’t measured by hitting the cap.
It’s measured by HOW you hit the cap.
Byatt at 1 year for 11 mill hits the cap about the same as signing a guy for 5 years 150 mill with 100 up front.

That is far from the same in terms of “cheap”

We have almost always sorry at or near the cap. But we have almost always been near the bottom in cash spending.

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zoostation said:

The Pats were top FA spenders in 2021. Aren't all free agents discarded players? Kevin Byard - discarded, Romeo Doubs - discarded, Stephon Diggs - discarded, not sure what your point is there. Don't want to ruin your fantasy, I'm sure you had a Tom Brady lunch box in the early 2000's. But the 2001 championship wasn't won by QB play; it was won by not turning the ball over and letting the fierce, stout defense do the rest. Many of whom filled gaps when BB picked them up in FA after he got out of the salary cap hell he inherited from Uncle Petey. Belichick stamped his name on the 2001 team and the teams moving forward, much like Vrabel is doing now. I love me some TB12, but TB12 didn't become the TB12 and future goat until 2006 / 2007.

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TheRainMaker said:

That's not the point. You initially said the Pats were "top spenders in 2001". All of these guys you mentioned where discarded players who were bargain bin signings. They needed to sign a bunch of players to fill out their roster BB had recently dismantled.

And their contribution would've been a moot point had Bledsoe played the entire season or they didn't have a last place schedule. People conveniently forget that the Pats went 2-4 with Brady against teams with a record of .500 and above during the regular season. They beat up on losing teams after Brady took over which Bledsoe couldn't do losing to one of the worst teams in the league in week 1. Had the Pats gone 9-7 with Bledsoe (and I'm being generous), they would've lost the tie breaker to Seattle and missed the playoffs.

By the way, Stephen Neal didn't play in 2001.

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mike_usagisan said:

My kids think I'm cheap. I think I'm shrewd. It's probably somewhere in the middle... maybe "chewd" or "shreep".

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