Patriots Rumor OT: Maxx Crosby wants to play for Mike Vrabel UPDATE: Breer expects him to be traded this week with the Pats a favorite

Family said:

I get that. But they had a lot of luck on injuries and opponents, which doesn't mean they are not a championship contender.

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If the defending conference champions, with no major personnel losses, are not a championship contender, then no one is.

Family said:

How about this? These moves don't often work.

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Neither do draft picks - even first rounders.

Family said:

Trading a #1 and paying 30M a year isn't the best way to attain those 1-2 pieces, unless you are on your last legs as a contender.

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Yeah, you know, it kinda really is. They've got plenty of cap space so that is hardly a factor. I'll take a known superstar over a long-shot superstar any day of the week.

Family said:

It's the pick plus the money.

This is year two of the rebuild. I'd rather try to find our own Crosby in the draft than give up a first round pick.

Which won't be enough because someone will offer a higher pick.

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But how likely is it that they find their own Crosby in the draft? You always want to try and compete when the young QB is still on his rookie contract. Once he starts making 50 million a year it gets dicey.

Steve102 said:

His competitive, controlling nature. Neither of the things you mention would preclude him from making these type of decisions. Do I think he's in the building making day to day decisions on the minutia of running a football team? No. Do I think he's the guiding force in the front office? Yep. He can do that from anywhere in the world on a daily basis.

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That’s just not how it works.

Rob0729 said:

I don't your point about me saying that it isn't a DE's fault they didn't win a Super Bowl. By logic, if the the Pats give Gonzalez a top of the market contract and the Pats never win a Super Bowl during that contract that it was a bust resigning and the Pats should have traded Gonzalez away for draft picks to get a several players who would win a Super Bowl. So in fact, trading for a guy like Crosby already under a deal is better than trading for a Parsons who has to get a huge deal on top of it.

Brown and Hill were traded away because their teams didn't want to pay the second contract. Both the Dolphins and Eagles traded for these players with the specific intent of paying them top of the money contracts immediately after the trade. There is little difference from trading for a guy who already signed the deal a year earlier except for the fact that the guy who already signed the deal comes cheaper since the acquiring team doesn't have to pay the huge signing bonus or have it count against their cap.

Again, one player does not mean you are going to win a Super Bowl unless you are trading for an elite QB. You trade for an elite player in another position and build around him. If the team does a crap job doing that, it isn't the player's fault if he plays elite.

As for Diggs, we see what the Bills are like post Diggs. They haven't gotten to the Conference championships again.

As for Parsons, he transformed the Packers' defense. One player. That is a successful trade. Can't control injuries. He isn't an injury prone player.

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You seem to not understand that there is an opportunity cost in giving up picks and paying top of the market pay.
Gonzalez isn’t being traded for.
It is not the same to trade for a guy in his rookie contract and a guy with 4 years and 120 million to go.

I said I dint see examples of trading for a guy at top pay working out. You are giving examples that are not that and arguing they are the same. If Crosby was on his rookie contract it would be a different set of circumstances.
If you want to define working out as we got a good guy but it cost us do much we didn’t win, I won’t agree.
I’m not interested in getting a good player that costs so much the team can’t get better.
The packers haven’t even started to feel the impact of what parsons cost. And yes you can control injuries by not building a roster that falls apart if 1 guy gets hurt because you paid so much for him.

Give Kraft A Hand said:

But how likely is it that they find their own Crosby in the draft? You always want to try and compete when the young QB is still on his rookie contract. Once he starts making 50 million a year it gets dicey.

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I asked ChatGPT when was the last time a non QB traded for a #1, given a large contract, and the team won a Super Bowl.

NONE

So it's more likely they find a Crosby in the draft.

Hugepatsfan said:

So don't spread the cap hits out like that. You don't have to convert all of his 2026 and 2027 compensation to pro rated bonuses like I did. Or you can do that but rather than use the extra space just roll it over to cover 2028 and 2029 such that he has a higher cap number but you have a higher adjusted cap because your rollover is higher. All the same.

You can manage the cap how you see fit. The crux of it is that you pay him $85.5M to play for you for the next three years the way his deal is set up. You can defer none of that to 2029 if you prefer, you could defer a huge chunk of it. All depends on what else they plan to do with the rosters those years. On the contract, it just comes down to out of whatever amount of money they're going to spend the next three years, is $85.5M of it on Crosby worth it? I think so. The cap hits on that are just accounting timing really.

My issue is that to pay him that ON TOP OF giving up the picks, it only makes sense if you're going for a pretty aggressive win now window. So for it to make sense, you really have to be trying to maximize what you can add NOW. They have to decide if that makes sense. Obviously there's long term cost to that, but I also think they could build a legit SB contender now if they went the ultra aggressive route.

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We are not in a position to have the best use of 85 million for the next 3 years be giving it all to max Crosby, and giving up picks for the right to do that.

It's a conundrum no doubt. On one hand, the 31st pick is very unlikely to give you a player with the potential impact of a Max Crosby over the next 3-year period. On the other hand, coming out of the 2026 draft with just the 62nd pick as your top draft choice and a bunch of 3rd day picks will leave a very hollow feeling after the way the 2025 class produced.

I'm almost 100% convinced that Crosby's cap consequences are manageable and we can make some subtle adjustments to existing contracts to keep the overall cap situation in a decent place while we try to prepare to absorb Gonzo and Maye's impending contracts. The Rams have done a great job in finding good players in the middle rounds all those years they were without their #1 picks. Do we trust this personnel department to do the same?

RIght now, I'd prefer to go the top LG route as my main priority and go after Phillips as a younger edge improvement, but I'm warming to Crosby deal if it isn't too onerous. I saw one proposed deal that netted the Raiders our #1 this year, our #2 next year, and Landry. Now that is what I would call an "onerous deal".

XLIX said:

If the defending conference champions, with no major personnel losses, are not a championship contender, then no one is.

Neither do draft picks - even first rounders.

Yeah, you know, it kinda really is. They've got plenty of cap space so that is hardly a factor. I'll take a known superstar over a long-shot superstar any day of the week.

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They have 40 mill. Crosby plus the draft class, 52bd and 53rd, practice squad and cushion for in season moves eats all of that up.

Ring 6 said:

They have 40 mill. Crosby plus the draft class, 52bd and 53rd, practice squad and cushion for in season moves eats all of that up.

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They can easily clear tens of millions in cap space with a move or two. KC cleared about 60 million just last week I believe.

slash83 said:

They can easily clear tens of millions in cap space with a move or two. KC cleared about 60 million just last week I believe.

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So we cut players to get more space then we have to replace them.

This just isn’t the way to build a championship roster. If you can show me examples where it worked, I’d be open to reconsidering but saying create more holes to get cap room isn’t winning me over. (Nor is pushing money out to a future cap hell)

Ring 6 said:

So we cut players to get more space then we have to replace them.

This just isn’t the way to build a championship roster. If you can show me examples where it worked, I’d be open to reconsidering but saying create more holes to get cap room isn’t winning me over. (Nor is pushing money out to a future cap hell)

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Restructures.

Family said:

I asked ChatGPT when was the last time a non QB traded for a #1, given a large contract, and the team won a Super Bowl.

NONE

So it's more likely they find a Crosby in the draft.

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AJ Brown cost the Eagles a 1st and a big contract extension. So chat GPT is not an expert

Edit to add Jalen Ramsey cost 2 firsts and a record breaking contract extension in 2020 before they won a superbowl.

Just two quick recent examples

gobesmug said:

AJ Brown cost the Eagles a 1st and a big contract extension. So chat GPT is not an expert

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You're right.

AI sux.

patfanken said:

It's a conundrum no doubt. On one hand, the 31st pick is very unlikely to give you a player with the potential impact of a Max Crosby over the next 3-year period. On the other hand, coming out of the 2026 draft with just the 62nd pick as your top draft choice and a bunch of 3rd day picks will leave a very hollow feeling after the way the 2025 class produced.

I'm almost 100% convinced that Crosby's cap consequences are manageable and we can make some subtle adjustments to existing contracts to keep the overall cap situation in a decent place while we try to prepare to absorb Gonzo and Maye's impending contracts. The Rams have done a great job in finding good players in the middle rounds all those years they were without their #1 picks. Do we trust this personnel department to do the same?

RIght now, I'd prefer to go the top LG route as my main priority and go after Phillips as a younger edge improvement, but I'm warming to Crosby deal if it isn't too onerous. I saw one proposed deal that netted the Raiders our #1 this year, our #2 next year, and Landry. Now that is what I would call an "onerous deal".

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Agree and disagree Ken. I think getting a "#1" WR or a franchise left tackle is more likely when you are picking top 10 in the draft, but you can still get yourself a great player at 31 is you are going for the top prospects at less glorious positions. Usually the top 3-4, sometimes more, players at QB, LT, Edge, DT, CB are gone when you are picking at the end of the first round, however you can get a top guard, center, safety, RT, or RB at that point of the first round, e.g...Logan Mankins. And I always think that's the best route to go (BPA) if you aren't picking in the top half of the round. Now that they have their QB and Left Tackle they should be focused on who is dropping in the first round, as so many teams are focused on need. That approach got them guys like Wilfork and Gonzalez, and Logan Mankins.

So while they need to wait to see how the board falls on draft night, there will be a good number of guys who I really like at 31, who could turn out to be cornerstone pieces for this franchise. RT looks to be really strong at the end of the first round. Max Iheanachor and Blake Miller look like really good prospects. EmmanuelMcNeil Warren could be a great addition at safety. CJ Allen looks like a really good OTB Linebacker, which is a definite need with Spillane's age and injuries. And Pregnon and Bisontis are both really good guard prospects.

As far as Crosby goes, love the player, hate the price. There's no way I'm giving multiple 1st round picks for him and paying huge money, they have too much building left to do to be giving away their future. I'd rather see them take a shot at TJ Parker if he is still on the board in the late first round, or Peter Woods ( DT) if he takes a big fall.

I still look at this team as building for long term success. Get in the playoffs enough and you will get your Lombardi's, unless your the Bills, and they just don't have what it takes. So I want Vrabel to continue as he would have had they gone 8-7. There is still a lot of work to do to be a contender for the next decade.

TommyD4207 said:

This is probably fair, and honestly, even 31 seems like a little much, considering the price hit you'd be taking from drafting someone at 31.

I dunno, these 30-somethings coming off injuries make me nervous at that position. Look at Joey Bosa. Went off the juice for a year to have a healthy season, and the Bills wasted 30-whatever million on him to give you Anfrenee Jennings production.

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He'll be 29 in August. He played over 900 snaps last year, had 46 tackles (which for an Edge is very good), 10 sacks and over 50 pressures.

slash83 said:

Restructures.

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Who are you restructuring to save that much money? And you don’t save you push it out usually to where you are paying for a player who isn’t here

dliverey44 said:

He'll be 29 in August. He played over 900 snaps last year, had 46 tackles (which for an Edge is very good), 10 sacks and over 50 pressures.

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I havent studied his film but you have to be careful thinking tackle totals equate to playing well, especially for an edge.
The guy teams choose to run at gets more tackled than the guy they don’t, and all tackled aren’t created equally. Making a tackle 8 yards downfield isn’t the same as holding out ground and stuffing the run but each counts the same.
That said Crosby had a high motor and never quits so he probably has a large amount of tackles on plays run away from him that he chases, although those are probably after good gains.

Family said:

I asked ChatGPT

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ok, well there's one of your problems right there....

Family said:

when was the last time a non QB traded for a #1, given a large contract, and the team won a Super Bowl.

NONE

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The Rams traded a first rounder for Jalen Ramsey, who was instrumental in their Super Bowl championship winning season.

That was all of 5 years ago and I didn't even have to look it up. I have no doubt if I did some research, I'd find more examples.

EDIT: I was beaten to the punch with the Ramsey example, but made this post before I read that one, so I will leave it here as originally written.

XLIX said:

ok, well there's one of your problems right there....

The Rams traded a first rounder for Jalen Ramsey, who was instrumental in their Super Bowl championship winning season.

That was all of 5 years ago and I didn't even have to look it up. I have no doubt if I did some research, I'd find more examples.

EDIT: I was beaten to the punch with the Ramsey example, but made this post before I read that one, so I will leave it here as originally written.

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Ramsey is probably the best example but it was his 3rd year when the won the SB and then they went 5-12 and he was gone. So a little murky

Rob0729 said:

Brady doesn't negotiate deals. John Spytek would be the one negotiating deals. He is the guy who traded for Geno Smith to become the starting QB for the Raiders.

And Wolf has never really been fleeced in a trade deal of any significance.

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Brady runs the Raiders.

He picked the HC. Nor the puppet GM. Brady will want alot for Crosby so he can rebuild the Raiders. The Raiders GM will do what Brady tells him to do.

Trading for Crosby is foolish. Look at GB and how well the Parsons trade worked out.