Patriots Player Departure Mac Jones traded to Jags for a 6th

festy1986 said:

He won a Superbowl in 33% of the time he played with a coach other than Bill.

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Ian said:

It went beyond Brady, especially in the beginning. Bruschi even said during his own retirement that "Bill taught me how to be a champion."

You're penalizing a guy for sending someone (**** Reihbein) to find a quarterback despite the fact they already had three on the roster, and then not only taking a chance on him, but having the stones to stand by the decision to believe in him and keep him in there despite the unbelievable pressure there was on him to the contrary.

I get he moved on from him three years too soon, but you can't penalize the guy for making the right call and then getting the most out of him. And Brady flipped the Buccaneers thanks to his resume, the guys immediately bought in because the guy had six championships. Yes, I highly doubt Brady wins six Super Bowls elsewhere because another coach likely would have made the wrong call down the stretch and hosed him out of a couple of opportunities. And that's provided they wouldn't have messed things up in the Divisional Round or AFC Championship.

Brady got bounced from two opportunities in his final two postseasons and should have gone farther than he did. Those were two good examples of how much coaching - and the guys around you - matter. Not even the GOAT can overcome bad coaching. And bad coaching decisions are what potentially cost him another ring against Philadelphia.

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signbabybrady said:

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I am giving Bill his blame here just making sure the timeline of events is accurate. It was Bills fault but it was done over the course of several years he didn't just walk in one day and say you're fired like you made it out to be. He just never thought he'd leave so he never felt the need to give him a deal too early because of ageism to give it a quick term.

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signbabybrady said:

By that logic he had a losing season %33 of the time without Bill too.

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festy1986 said:

I totally understand. I also think Brady would of done just fine if he was in Indy those years instead.

It wasn't simply Bill doing a great job with a great defense he mostly inherited by another great coach because before Brady got in there they was what? 5 and 13?

You needed the QB. Regardless of what his numbers looked like then, not just anyone was gonna do the job.

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Ian said:

And this 33% stat is silly - that's a Felger/Mazz thing. The two straight he lost shows you how much having a smart coach matters. Arians was smarter than people think, and I definitely believed he was a big factor down the stretch that season. Bowles had a tough time in each of those final two postseasons and the vibe was significantly different with Arians gone.

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festy1986 said:

Brady was distracted, dealing with a cheating wife, old as **** and tired of the grind, not even practicing half the week and still looked better than Mac.

He had a horrible season to his own standards but not by NFL QB standards.

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festy1986 said:

Brady was distracted, dealing with a cheating wife, old as **** and tired of the grind, not even practicing half the week and still looked better than Mac.

He had a horrible season to his own standards but not by NFL QB standards.

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Ian said:

And without Bill, they don't draft Brady. They probably stick with Drew or waste time with Michael Bishop.

And yes, you definitely need a QB - which they didn't have after he left. Without competent play under center, no team can win and every coach in that situation clearly will get fired. Hence the reason Bill is no longer here.

Tony Dungy is a good example. He leaves, and the Buccaneers finally win a championship. He foiled multiple chances for Manning and absolutely would have ruined a few for Brady. Again, great quarterbacks can win games they're put in position to win, but bad coaches will 100% lose them. I mean, we're complaining about the fact Brady didn't have 10 here. No way he gets six with Dungy. I mean, for crying out loud, Manning had just one with some unbelievable rosters. That's a travesty in and of itself.

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UGAPatsfan said:

Giselle = skank

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festy1986 said:

I'm not taking away from Bill, simply assigning that appropriate credit.

Bill lost us a Superbowl because he benched one of his starting DB for who knows what reason.

He lost us a Superbowl in 2006 because he didn't give Brady NFL level wr talent which is something he would saddle him with over and over.

All things being equal, who you taking tomorrow to start a team? There's your answer.

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Ian said:

I don't know why you're defending Bowles. He's not a good coach, and it's OK to admit that, even though it goes against the point we're discussing.

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Ian said:

But again, that's true for every single coach in the league. If you don't have competent QB play, you have no shot.

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festy1986 said:

So what are we arguing here? That the QB is worth more than the coach?

Ok, we agree. Brady was more important.

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festy1986 said:

Spread acoss 23 seasons, Brady fullfils his 7 titles quota for who he was.

Maybe just maybe it has more to do with him than those around him? Is that hard to believe?

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Hammer of Thor said:

How did a thread on Mac Jones being traded turn in to (yet) another Tom vs. Bill thread?

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Rob0729 said:

He had final say with Jones as he has had with every other draft pick in his tenure. Nothing changed. Do you really think that this was the first draft pick that people sold him on? I am sure there were many times over the years that Belichick preferred one player over another and someone in the war room sold him to take another player. I guarantee you every single time including with Jones that he like the player he drafted, but just liked another one more and was talked into the player he ended up drafting.

I am not dancing around reported facts. I am dancing around your biased interpretation of the facts. Your interpretation of the facts are not facts. They are opinions.

Post the direct quote that said that Belichick didn't want Mac Jones and was pressured into taking him. I have never seen a single report that explicitly stated that Belichick didn't like Jones and didn't want him including the one you claim does. The one you site says he preferred taking Mills in the third round, but never gave Belichick's opinion on Jones and whether he liked him or not.

Belichick has been reported to believe that he could plug almost any QB in his offense and still win. He doesn't value drafting QBs high.

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Ian said:

People keep talking about Bill not wanting him but I mean, Jones was Saban’s National Championship-winning guy. The meetings during the pre draft process went well and Lombardi said it best, he was a smart player who they thought - based on what they had seen - was that he’d be good enough to be “an overachiever” the same way Brady had been and that their defense would take care of the rest. Bill absolutely was in on him. I 100% believe that because back then, he had no reason not to be.

Unfortunately, his other attributes ended up offsetting that and McDaniels leaving - and poaching of the staff - clearly played a big role there. Hoyer painted a picture of how dysfunctional the 2022 preseason was in a recent podcast with Curran and that unfortunately derailed a promising start. Add in Jones’ apparent resentment of his circumstances and his inability to take as much accountability as he should have and it obviously led to what happened.

In the end, taking him was the right move because in this league, you have to continually draft QBs and take chances and 2022 would have absolutely gone worse with Newton - I have no doubt about that. It’s just too bad this one ended as badly as it did.

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