NFL to propose to improve a team's draft position if it hires a person of color as HC or GM

lancerman said:

This is the problem

Entry level for coaches is

1. Starting in the NFL if you know someone

2. Starting in college if you know someone

3. Starting in highschool if you know someone

4. volunteering for Pop Warner if you don’t know anyone

It’s ****ing hard as **** to move up and keep advancing. If you start in the NFL you can move down to college to become an OC or something, then try to move back to the NFL laterally.

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So football coaching careers are limited to people who have football experience? And there is something wrong with that.

jimnance said:

Nope. Just ain't the appropriate place for this. I also hate typing. If I could explain
it to you in a couple sentences I'd do it.
But it would take a lengthy dissertation and I just ain't gonna do that.
The only time I've ever posted in a political thread is in response to a post that is ignorant. Like yours.
So do a little research and you can answer your own questions.

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This answer is better than saying what you said last time. There's nothing to research, either. I'm not asking for you to outline a course in American history. I want to know what is good enough, according to you, or anyone really, in terms of 'equality' for minority coaches and front staff. For some reason no one can answer it. Is it something you all feel in your balls? Oh, it's not right..feel that honey! Is it 50%? What is good enough? Do you say that because the majority of players are black? Why is it not enough? Not society...the coaches and the GMs. What would it take for people who think the situation is unfair to say : "Look honey, that looks right now".

I'm not saying this to try and lead you anywhere and if you don't want to type it out, I'm good with that. I'm not looking for a typing marathon exchange. I honestly don't care if all the coaches were black or if they all were white. None of it bothers me. What is annoying is over correction or making blanket policies based on history or things that have no sense.

lancerman said:

This is laughable. There’s hundreds of capable college HC’s and 60 something NFL coordinators and the special teams guy for the job because 2 guys boosted for him. Please

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So as a business owner with an opening you think it’s ridiculous to pick the candidate for an opening that trained under the 2 best in the business and they highly recommend him? good lord.

Ring 6 said:

So as a business owner with an opening you think it’s ridiculous to pick the candidate for an opening that trained under the 2 best in the business and they highly recommend him? good lord.

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most of HC will recommend their coach staff members anytime, if they have some character and not beeing selfish/egoistic (in order to keep those members on their own staff)

all of the interviewed coaches will have had at least one or two HC/GMs or whatever that recommended them

lancerman said:

This is laughable. There’s hundreds of capable college HC’s and 60 something NFL coordinators and the special teams guy for the job because 2 guys boosted for him. Please

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I would bet that Ring6 honestly thinks people like Donald Jr and his brother Eric earned all their business opportunities and jobs too, out of merit

.

masterbouncer said:

most of HC will recommend their coach staff members anytime, if they have some character and not beeing selfish/egoistic (in order to keep those members on their own staff)

all of the interviewed coaches will have had at least one or two HC/GMs or whatever that recommended them

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Of course and the one recommended by GOATS gets a leg up as it should be.

DropKickFlutie said:

I would bet that Ring6 honestly thinks people like Donald Jr and his brother Eric earned all their business opportunities and jobs too, out of merit

.

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Don’t be a Moron.

Ring 6 said:

Of course and the one recommended by GOATS gets a leg up as it should be.

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Ring6 jumps all over the place and is intentionally trying to zero in on Joe when he knows there is zero legit rationale for how stiffs like Freddy Kitchen, Zac Taylor, or Kliff Kingsbury got hired. Or even that random guy Rhules in Carolina for 60M. It's blatant Good Ole Boys network.

.

Nunchucks said:

The problem is that people aren't being hired based on merit.

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In a perfect world, yes.

jimnance said:

Rw good post until the Spam thing.
Spam is nasty.

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What spam. I speak truth

lancerman said:

And this is how it went

1. He played at Mississippi state and immediately became an assistant after he graduated. So he used a connection there

2. Then he used that experience to go to Birmingham Southern and pivoted you Alabama

3. Then he got into Alabama and Saban referred him to Belichick

4. He was with the Patriots.

5. Both Belichick and Saban heavily talked him up to the Giants and they hired him as HC

He never coached below the college level and at least 3 of his jobs were basically connections via playing for a team or having two high end respected employers using connections to help him out.

From there you can see why someone might look at that and say “it’s about making the right connections in this fraternity”

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I have to say I am not entirely sure what the problem is. He started as a graduate assistant, which is a fairly common way to get started in football coaching. He then went to Division III Birmingham-Southern, and it doesn't seem like he had to use connections to get there.

There also doesn't seem to be any evidence he used connections to get to Alabama. Obviously the 2 schools are nearby and I am sure the coaching staffs are familiar with each other, but highly doubt Saban hired him as some sort of favor.

So after 4 years with Alabama, he goes to become a special teams assistant with the Patriots. I'm sure the Saban-Belichick connection worked in his favor but again, I don't think that connection gets made if there was some legit talent behind his coaching abilities.

He must have done a pretty good job in that role because Belichick promoted him a couple years later. A couple years later, he gets a vacant HC role.

Tottie said:

This answer is better than saying what you said last time. There's nothing to research, either. I'm not asking for you to outline a course in American history. I want to know what is good enough, according to you, or anyone really, in terms of 'equality' for minority coaches and front staff. For some reason no one can answer it. Is it something you all feel in your balls? Oh, it's not right..feel that honey! Is it 50%? What is good enough? Do you say that because the majority of players are black? Why is it not enough? Not society...the coaches and the GMs. What would it take for people who think the situation is unfair to say : "Look honey, that looks right now".

I'm not saying this to try and lead you anywhere and if you don't want to type it out, I'm good with that. I'm not looking for a typing marathon exchange. I honestly don't care if all the coaches were black or if they all were white. None of it bothers me. What is annoying is over correction or making blanket policies based on history or things that have no sense.

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Ok. I apologize for calling your post ignorant. What you posted above is certainly not ignorant.
I could never be Andy,lol. I don't come here to debate. Not even football. In person, yes,I love to debate. I'm Irish.Its in the blood. Online is just too much work so I walk away from a lot of debates because I just don't want to put in the time and energy. But also because its too easy to be misunderstood or to misunderstand someone else,as I did to you.
To sum the current situation in the NFL regarding minority coaching and front-office hiring: it's much better than it was just a few years ago, and improving, but not there yet. Most of the blame falls on owners and upper level execs, including gms. Not really at the head coach level.
Great coaches like BB don't give a rats ass about your skin color, they just want talented guys they can work with.
Among owners, the good ole boy network still exists, though it's better than it used to be.
The Rooney Rule was well-intentioned because something had to be done.
It's got a lot of flaws but at least it's something and it's led to some improvement.
The idea posted in this thread is beyond stupid, for a lot of different reasons. Think we can all agree there.
One last thing: there are still elements of the good ole boy network in pro sports
and the military BUT both sports and the military have much less racism than in the private sector and in the rest of society.
If you're a player or a grunt all you care about the guy next to you is do they have your back and will they do their job. Because your life depends upon it.
They're both more merit-based than private sector as well.
And even in college sports, a lot of players, black and white, had little or no interaction with other races/ cultures.
Many,many players, black and white, have said they received a great education in working with people from totally different backgrounds and making lifelong true friends with those people. I've also heard this from a lot of people in the military.
That's a good thing. That's been slowly evolving since the 50's.
It's wrong to deny that we are overall a much more equal society than at any time in our history. We should all be proud of that. But it's also wrong to deny that things still aren't completely equal for everybody. I think everybody's goal is to keep trying to be a better person.
It's like TB and BB. Neither ever rests on their laurels and are always striving to improve.

Ring 6 said:

He coached 3 years under saban and 8 under belichick. Won 3 SBs.
Of course he had merit, he literally learned from the best there are

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A not-insignificant amount of that time was likely spent as a mere slappy, not exactly Lou Jr's or Bill's right-hand man or anything...

Joey007 said:

What the hell is this?

This is an absolutely terrible idea.

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Not only is it terrible, it's racist.

TommyBrady12 said:

Not only is it terrible, it's racist.

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You’ll be okay. You’ll learn to live with this new reality. Soon Kraft will fire Bill and hire Hue Jackson for a higher draft pick. Learn to love this brave new era. It won’t hurt

jimnance said:

Ok. I apologize for calling your post ignorant. What you posted above is certainly not ignorant.
I could never be Andy,lol. I don't come here to debate. Not even football. In person, yes,I love to debate. I'm Irish.Its in the blood. Online is just too much work so I walk away from a lot of debates because I just don't want to put in the time and energy. But also because its too easy to be misunderstood or to misunderstand someone else,as I did to you.
To sum the current situation in the NFL regarding minority coaching and front-office hiring: it's much better than it was just a few years ago, and improving, but not there yet. Most of the blame falls on owners and upper level execs, including gms. Not really at the head coach level.
Great coaches like BB don't give a rats ass about your skin color, they just want talented guys they can work with.
Among owners, the good ole boy network still exists, though it's better than it used to be.
The Rooney Rule was well-intentioned because something had to be done.
It's got a lot of flaws but at least it's something and it's led to some improvement.
The idea posted in this thread is beyond stupid, for a lot of different reasons. Think we can all agree there.
One last thing: there are still elements of the good ole boy network in pro sports
and the military BUT both sports and the military have much less racism than in the private sector and in the rest of society.
If you're a player or a grunt all you care about the guy next to you is do they have your back and will they do their job. Because your life depends upon it.
They're both more merit-based than private sector as well.
And even in college sports, a lot of players, black and white, had little or no interaction with other races/ cultures.
Many,many players, black and white, have said they received a great education in working with people from totally different backgrounds and making lifelong true friends with those people. I've also heard this from a lot of people in the military.
That's a good thing. That's been slowly evolving since the 50's.
It's wrong to deny that we are overall a much more equal society than at any time in our history. We should all be proud of that. But it's also wrong to deny that things still aren't completely equal for everybody. I think everybody's goal is to keep trying to be a better person.
It's like TB and BB. Neither ever rests on their laurels and are always striving to improve.

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No apologies needed on here, mate. Sorry if I sounded too direct.

Tottie said:

No apologies needed on here, mate. Sorry if I sounded too direct.

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And I just read my last post. Good Lord, I sounded preachy. And a little bit goodytwo shoes.
Now I feel like I gotta post something purely evil to balance it out.

lancerman said:

You’ll be okay. You’ll learn to live with this new reality. Soon Kraft will fire Bill and hire Hue Jackson for a higher draft pick. Learn to love this brave new era. It won’t hurt

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I can see one of the dissenting owners take this to court.

robertweathers said:

What spam. I speak truth

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Bad memories eating that growing up.
After a few months, my Mom gave up on serving Spam. She Already had stopped trying to feed us liver.
All 9 of my brothers and sisters weren't going for it. Glad I had a big family.
There's strength in numbers

DropKickFlutie said:

Ring6 jumps all over the place and is intentionally trying to zero in on Joe when he knows there is zero legit rationale for how stiffs like Freddy Kitchen, Zac Taylor, or Kliff Kingsbury got hired. Or even that random guy Rhules in Carolina for 60M. It's blatant Good Ole Boys network.

.

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I was specifically asked about judge.
I gave you specific explanations for kitchen, Taylor, kingsbury.
Now you bring up Rhule who has no connection to the nfl and call THAT the old boys network.
Exactly what do you think an old boys network is?