Antonio Brown

BelizePats said:

AB is the classic million dollar talent supported by a 10 cent brain.
His level of immaturity is beyond belief.
All he had to do was keep his mouth shut and stay off social media during the height of the firestorm that he created. Yes, the SI story added gas to the story but this is on AB and his inability to show any kind of restraint. I would have loved this guy on our team as he's an extraordinary talent and it was the ultimate FU to the rest of the league. But he blew it.

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Exactly. The problem isn't everybody else AROUND the disaster. It's the disaster.

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Triumph said:

Free AB

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That's HIS motto when it comes to paying his tabs.

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venecol said:

The NFL did do something, they immediately notified AB and the Pats, and they interviewed the painter the next day.

So much so that the attorneys wrote a follow up thanking the NFL for acting swiftly.

In fact, when AB was released, the attorney appeared shocked and even said she couldn't connect the dots together for his release or some such thing.

No one in the NFL has ever or will ever be released over texts. It is utterly ridiculous to believe that. For gods sakes they have recordings of Tyreek threatening his baby mama and nothing was done to him.

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NFL are idiots for acting the way they did and pressuring Kraft to release him with Exempt List threats

venecol said:

Letter did not mention suspension. It simply asked the NFL to make AB stop contacting their client.

Also, when the NFL interviewed the painter, she told them she had witnessed AB having sex with another woman in the same room where she was painting the mural, which happened to be AB's bedroom! For Gods sakes, this painter kept on painting while AB was plowing some girl. After that is when he shows up with the small towel, in his room, probably thinking, well she was cool with me having sex in front of her. Then the painter seeked him out after all of this. She wsnted his business. The entire painter incident is a complete ZERO.

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Where did you find these details? Link?

shmessy said:

It’s over. He’s gone. He’ll end up either getting help in an institution or left wandering someday on a highway. For his sake, I hope it’s the former.

Meanwhile, the Patriots train chugs on without his wasteful drama.


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Hope he’s back soon for the sake of justice and hope he’s back to us for the sake of our team’s success

Biffins said:

Where did you find these details? Link?

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A story in another rag quoting the SI follow up story after his release. I linked it previously.

shmessy said:

It’s over. He’s gone. He’ll end up either getting help in an institution or left wandering someday on a highway. For his sake, I hope it’s the former.

Meanwhile, the Patriots train chugs on without his wasteful drama.


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You’re right..he’s gone and not coming back to the Patriots.

I think he’ll return to another team next year and put up a 1,000 yard season. We’ll see what happens.

Post-retirement, my money is on incarceration.

I believe all those things are true and still think it was a bad decision to release him, and I think by not allowing him to go through the investigation, they pissed away any chance of recouping the signing bonus. Had they waited for the NFL to actually put him on Exempt List (this idea is now the overwhelming consensus in this thread) they’d have a strong argument that he wasn’t available due to his own conduct. As of now, they released Brown despite him being available to play, setting new precedents for conduct justifying a voided bonus.

I’m moving on because nothing will change and I’ve put enough time into this. It’s just polarizing and causing too much internal resentment within the fan base, when there are plenty of other fan bases deserving of my ire.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

You’re right..he’s gone and not coming back to the Patriots.

I think he’ll return to another team next year and put up a 1,000 yard season. We’ll see what happens.

Post-retirement, my money is on incarceration.

I believe all those things are true and still think it was a bad decision to release him, and I think by not allowing him to go through the investigation, they pissed away any chance of recouping the signing bonus. Had they waited for the NFL to actually put him on Exempt List (this idea is now the overwhelming consensus in this thread) they’d have a strong argument that he wasn’t available due to his own conduct. As of now, they released Brown despite him being available to play, setting new precedents for conduct justifying a voided bonus.

I’m moving on because nothing will change and I’ve put enough time into this. It’s just polarizing and causing too much internal resentment within the fan base, when there are plenty of other fan bases deserving of my ire.

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Honestly, I think what you propose is exactly what their plan was......until he gang texted (possibly from Gillette) the painter.


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Jerry Thornton for the win:

Barstool Sports

"......And as a comeback, I’ll repeat what I’ve been saying since they first won a Super Bowl with Troy Brown (an 8th round pick who was cut a half dozen times) and David Patten (undrafted out of Western Carolina). And later David Givens (7th rounder), Julian Edelman (7th round) and Danny Amendola (undrafted). That wide receiver is not just the most overvalued position in football, it’s the single most overrated position in all of sports. And it’s not even close. As much as we’re all addicted to furiously pleasuring ourselves over the memories of Randy Moss and Wes Welker, Brady produced 14 points in the Super Bowl That Shall Not Be Named I. And 28 points against the best defense of its generation, the Legion of Boom throwing to Edelman and Amendola. And 34 points against Atlanta throwing to those two, Chris Hogan and Malcolm Mitchell without Rob Gronkowski.

Simply put, quarterbacks make receivers, not the other way around. Otherwise Baker Mayfield wouldn’t have thrown three picks last week and produced three points the week before......"

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shmessy said:

Jerry Thornton for the win:

Barstool Sports

"......And as a comeback, I’ll repeat what I’ve been saying since they first won a Super Bowl with Troy Brown (an 8th round pick who was cut a half dozen times) and David Patten (undrafted out of Western Carolina). And later David Givens (7th rounder), Julian Edelman (7th round) and Danny Amendola (undrafted). That wide receiver is not just the most overvalued position in football, it’s the single most overrated position in all of sports. And it’s not even close. As much as we’re all addicted to furiously pleasuring ourselves over the memories of Randy Moss and Wes Welker, Brady produced 14 points in the Super Bowl That Shall Not Be Named I. And 28 points against the best defense of its generation, the Legion of Boom throwing to Edelman and Amendola. And 34 points against Atlanta throwing to those two, Chris Hogan and Malcolm Mitchell without Rob Gronkowski.

Simply put, quarterbacks make receivers, not the other way around. Otherwise Baker Mayfield wouldn’t have thrown three picks last week and produced three points the week before......"

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Causation doesn't equal correlation.

I keep seeing this point being made, as though they lost those SBs, BECAUSE they had better players? This has as much weight as them never winning when Belichick wears a red hoodie

We aren't looking at the same teams, players, field, refs, coaches, etc., so it isn't a good comparison.

Back to the topic, AB’s latest IG post was liked by TB12

tmajr3 said:

Causation doesn't equal correlation.

I keep seeing this point being made, as though they lost those SBs, BECAUSE they had better players? This has as much weight as them never winning when Belichick wears a red hoodie

We aren't looking at the same teams, players, field, refs, coaches, etc., so it isn't a good comparison.

Back to the topic, BRady's latest IG post

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You 100% missed the point.

It doesn't mean they "they lost those SBs, BECAUSE they had better players" (your words).

It means that a speed/deep threat elite WR, while nice, is not a necessity for a team to be successful - - the last 3 Patriot banner years were completely devoid of one. Thornton's point is what it is - - he very clearly states the truth there. I get it. People get mesmerized. But football is more than ESPN Sportscenter highlights. Would it be great to have an elite speed/deep threat WR? Sure! But is it a death knell not to have one? The Patriots have provided that answer over and over and over again.......

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tmajr3 said:

......Back to the topic, BRady's latest IG post

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Looks more like AB's Instagram post and Tom Brady "liked" it.

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shmessy said:

Jerry Thornton for the win:

Barstool Sports

"......And as a comeback, I’ll repeat what I’ve been saying since they first won a Super Bowl with Troy Brown (an 8th round pick who was cut a half dozen times) and David Patten (undrafted out of Western Carolina). And later David Givens (7th rounder), Julian Edelman (7th round) and Danny Amendola (undrafted). That wide receiver is not just the most overvalued position in football, it’s the single most overrated position in all of sports. And it’s not even close. As much as we’re all addicted to furiously pleasuring ourselves over the memories of Randy Moss and Wes Welker, Brady produced 14 points in the Super Bowl That Shall Not Be Named I. And 28 points against the best defense of its generation, the Legion of Boom throwing to Edelman and Amendola. And 34 points against Atlanta throwing to those two, Chris Hogan and Malcolm Mitchell without Rob Gronkowski.

Simply put, quarterbacks make receivers, not the other way around. Otherwise Baker Mayfield wouldn’t have thrown three picks last week and produced three points the week before......"

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This aligns with Belichick’s typical pay scale for WRs. He saw a superstar in Brown and offered him, likely around $10-12M for one season when you count up the roster bonuses, etc. The incentives were not likely to be earned. $10M is a lot but a far cry from the $16-18M that Julio Jones, OBJ, Hopkins, etc. are getting, and more notably no $50M guarantees for years down the road like other superstar WR deals.

Edelman has been notoriously underpaid compared to his peers.

Deion Branch’s stand-off in 2006 and eventual trade was a first hand look at how New England does not value WRs like other teams.

Coming off a 23 TD season, the Patriots were willing to let Moss walk if he didn’t take their best offer of 3/27.

The Patriots claimed to really like Cooks but had no hesitation trading me him to recoup the first round pick. Why? Because there’s no way they were paying him $16M after his rookie contract expired.

There aren’t many teams who will pay more for a middle linebacker (Hightower) than a wide receiver, but the Patriots are one of those teams. Expect big bucks for Van Noy. And in terms of the big bucks, paying Revis/Gilmore $14M is a better investment than spending that on a WR at the same price. There are so few guys (maybe no one else) capable of doing what Gilmore does; there are “very good” WRs all,over the place. It’s supply and demand for CBs/WRs.

I would lump pass rushers with wide receivers as overvalued, but that’s a different story.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

This aligns with Belichick’s typical pay scale for WRs. He saw a superstar in Brown and offered him, likely around $10-12M for one season when you count up the roster bonuses, etc. The incentives were not likely to be earned. $10M is a lot but a far cry from the $16-18M that Julio Jones, OBJ, Hopkins, etc. are getting, and more notably no $50M guarantees for years down the road like other superstar WR deals.

Edelman has been notoriously underpaid compared to his peers.

Deion Branch’s stand-off in 2006 and eventual trade was a first hand look at how New England does not value WRs like other teams.

Coming off a 23 TD season, the Patriots were willing to let Moss walk if he didn’t take their best offer of 3/27.

The Patriots claimed to really like Cooks but had no hesitation trading me him to recoup the first round pick. Why? Because there’s no way they were paying him $16M after his rookie contract expired.

There aren’t many teams who will pay more for a middle linebacker (Hightower) than a wide receiver, but the Patriots are one of those teams. And in terms of the big bucks, paying Revis/Gilmore $14M is a better investment than spending that on a WR at the same price. There are so few guys capable of does; there are “very good” WRs all,over the place. It’s supply and demand for CBs/WRs.

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Exactly. Hence Jerry Thornton's rather strongly worded point about the relative value (compared to the publicly perceived value) of WRs. I'm NOT saying WRs are unimportant pieces - they are. But TV highlight shows magnify them far in excess of what their actual value is.

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shmessy said:

Looks more like AB's Instagram post and Tom Brady "liked" it.

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More like, Brady's phone seems to first open on AB's page so he can "like" whatever AB posted asap.

QuantumMechanic said:

Soccer is short for “association football” and the Brits did invent it, even if they don’t now use it.

(My guess is that “association footballer” decayed to “socc’er” and then eventually referred to the sport as a whole rather than the players.)

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Association football and Rugby ( a prep school) football were created at the same time which was also when American football was created. The game of football had been around a long time, but was only played in neighborhoods. Therefore, the rules varied a lot. After the Industrial Revolution, people had more time on their hands and wanted to play football at a higher level and therefore the rules needed to be standardized. In America and Australia and other countries, one game called football was created. In England two different games were created. Rugby was more in line with the traditional game and was very similar to American football prior to the forward pass. Association football was a little different. (Prior to that time a spherical ball was impossible since they used oblong animal organs as balls). For a while in England, there was Rugby football and Association (soccer) football. Eventually, the latter became more popular and won the name of football while Rugby football just became known as rugby. In countries like the US and Australia which had their own "football" that game remained known as soccer.

Biffins said:

More like, Brady's phone seems to first open on AB's page so he can "like" whatever AB posted asap.

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Good hearted fellow who is worried about a possible suicide.

"There are people who love you, AB!"

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Ice_Ice_Brady said:

This aligns with Belichick’s typical pay scale for WRs. He saw a superstar in Brown and offered him, likely around $10-12M for one season when you count up the roster bonuses, etc. The incentives were not likely to be earned. $10M is a lot but a far cry from the $16-18M that Julio Jones, OBJ, Hopkins, etc. are getting, and more notably no $50M guarantees for years down the road like other superstar WR deals.

Edelman has been notoriously underpaid compared to his peers.

Deion Branch’s stand-off in 2006 and eventual trade was a first hand look at how New England does not value WRs like other teams.

Coming off a 23 TD season, the Patriots were willing to let Moss walk if he didn’t take their best offer of 3/27.

The Patriots claimed to really like Cooks but had no hesitation trading me him to recoup the first round pick. Why? Because there’s no way they were paying him $16M after his rookie contract expired.

There aren’t many teams who will pay more for a middle linebacker (Hightower) than a wide receiver, but the Patriots are one of those teams. Expect big bucks for Van Noy. And in terms of the big bucks, paying Revis/Gilmore $14M is a better investment than spending that on a WR at the same price. There are so few guys (maybe no one else) capable of doing what Gilmore does; there are “very good” WRs all,over the place. It’s supply and demand for CBs/WRs.

I would lump pass rushers with wide receivers as overvalued, but that’s a different story.

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This is a really good analysis and I think you are bang on.

shmessy said:

You 100% missed the point.

It doesn't mean they "they lost those SBs, BECAUSE they had better players" (your words).

It means that a speed/deep threat elite WR, while nice, is not a necessity for a team to be successful - - the last 3 Patriot banner years were completely devoid of one. Thornton's point is what it is - - he very clearly states the truth there. I get it. People get mesmerized. But football is more than ESPN Sportscenter highlights. Would it be great to have an elite speed/deep threat WR? Sure! But is it a death knell not to have one? The Patriots have provided that answer over and over and over again.......

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You're right. It's totally possible to have a world-class defense, an awesome QB, good running game, and just JAGs like Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney for WR and win the Superbowl.

oh wait..........

Oh and btw, the team that beat us that year had Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne............... not that it matters.

This thread should be merged with the megamonsterthread. It's only appropriate.