Brady for MVP?

Gallo said:

The up and coming tight end that played like 2 games in the NFL before Manning? Also, D. Thomas was top echelon before 2012? Really? He was not. Same with Decker, who everybody thought about as a decent 2nd option, but no better. The truth is, outside of Welker, who really came in as a finished product obviously, Manning really made those guys, or at the very least put them on the map as top players at their position.

But even if you disregard that, let's talk about Brady... You guys really think he was the primary reason this team won at the beginning of the season? Because if remember correctly, lot of you guys bashed him even here, and he was putting up very pedestrian numbers. Obviously, it was tough with those weapons, but there is no way he should get most of the credit for those wins. The defense played pretty well that time, before the injuries. Also, if Manning breakes the TD record, isn't that unprecedented?

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1.) My post was a response to your 2007 claim, so I'm not going to get into this year's Brady with you.

2.) J. Thomas played 5 games in 2011, and got a start, before going on IR. It's not as if he magically appeared out of the blue on the day of Manning's arrival. Also, I said he was up and coming, not that he was already there.

3.) Your belittling D, Thomas (outside of Welker) just shows how weak your claim is. Thomas had 47 catches in 11 games in 2011, while still dealing with a slow-healing foot injury. Claiming that Manning made him is asinine.

4.) Decker IS a 2nd option kind of player. He's thriving in a system where Welker and Thomas take the best defenders opponents have to offer. If he were Manning's true WR1, meaning he was the best WR on the Broncos, the Broncos would be 2-3 games behind the Chiefs right now.

5.) Again, and this is all that you should have needed to admit you were wrong: 16-0 v. 11-2

Bring a reasonable take with you, for crying out loud. We've got enough over-the-top Patriots homers on this board already. We don't need an over-the-top Manning homer to add to the insanity.

Gallo said:

The up and coming tight end that played like 2 games in the NFL before Manning? Also, D. Thomas was top echelon before 2012? Really? He was not. Same with Decker, who everybody thought about as a decent 2nd option, but no better. The truth is, outside of Welker, who really came in as a finished product obviously, Manning really made those guys, or at the very least put them on the map as top players at their position.

But even if you disregard that, let's talk about Brady... You guys really think he was the primary reason this team won at the beginning of the season? Because if remember correctly, lot of you guys bashed him even here, and he was putting up very pedestrian numbers. Obviously, it was tough with those weapons, but there is no way he should get most of the credit for those wins. The defense played pretty well that time, before the injuries. Also, if Manning breakes the TD record, isn't that unprecedented?

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Well, if you want to talk about unprecedented then maybe we should talk about whether or not there has ever been a QB of Manning's staure with such a horrible record in big games. 9-11 in the play-offs---are you kidding. That really sucks. It could even be considered AAAGGGGGRRRRGGGGGRUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHUKKUKKKUKKKK Choking

Pretty hard to keep it from Peyton with the kind of numbers he's putting up and the season the Broncos are having. Most fans across the country (and certainly the media) don't share the dim view of his efforts that is often expressed on this board.

I don't know what the Pats' record would be if Mallett were QB, but I doubt it would be much different from that of the Broncos with Bruce Oswiler calling signals.

Granted that Peyton has a lot more weapons with which to work, I still doubt that the Broncos without him would be in the playoff picture. Since we're talking about an "unknowable" (i.e., how either team would have done this season without #12 or #18),I acknowledge that someone could reasonably disagree with me on this.

If the Bronco's drop one more and both teams end up 13-3 are people really going to try and say that Manning is MVP when he guided that Bronco's team to the same record that Brady guided this Patriots to and lost to the Patriots and Brady?

Seriously.


If so what they are saying is that all that matters is fantasy stats, and not their actual worthiness.

Re: Brady should be the MVP

Galeb said:

Manning's weapons are far superior to what Brady had in 07.

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lol

no. randy moss & young welker all day everyday over their overrated players

PatsFanSince74 said:

I still doubt that the Broncos without him would be in the playoff picture. Since we're talking about an "unknowable" (i.e., how either team would have done this season without #12 or #18),I acknowledge that someone could reasonably disagree with me on this.

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Yeah, because Tim Tebow says hi. And that team wasn't as deep at the time as this one is... Since people are so quick now to say Tebow was never any good and doesn't deserve to be a starter in the NFL, then it's reasonable to use that same logic to say those folks in Denver must have been pretty darn good otherwise. Heck, D. Thomas even caught an 80yd bomb from Teblow, so I think those pointing out Denver's record is expected are probably right on point.

I'll also take this opportunity to thumb my nose at posters saying if the roles were reversed, we wouldn't be supporting Manning. While that's true, the reason for it is that if the roles were reversed, Manning would be on a team with a losing or possibly .500 record. Yeah, I said it. Yes, I mean it. No, that doesn't make me a homer.

Ivan said:

If the Bronco's drop one more and both teams end up 13-3 are people really going to try and say that Manning is MVP when he guided that Bronco's team to the same record that Brady guided this Patriots to and lost to the Patriots and Brady?

Seriously.
If so what they are saying is that all that matters is fantasy stats, and not their actual worthiness.

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Maybe Gostkowski should be MVP. The Patriots might be a .500 team with a league average kicker. (I'm only half-kidding here, Gostkowski has a serious claim for team MVP right now)

AndyJohnson said:

Well I guess you are having your own little argument with yourself, because the discussion is both about who deserves the award and who will receive the votes.
If you think there is nothing to discuss, then refrain from posting. Is it that hard?

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Typical Andy, a homer who thinks he is the king of the forum.

The question is why is it so hard for you to stop replying to me? We never agree, this discussion is silly but I have my say regardless of your complex.

Re: Brady should be the MVP

Galeb said:

Manning's weapons are far superior to what Brady had in 07.

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Deeper yes, not far superior, Moss was so great that depth wasn't necessary (until the SB).

His schedule is easier, that to me is the biggest factor if he were to tie at 50 TDs, but far superior is just a way of discrediting him, it is week 15 and we have to accept that these two are 1 a and b.

I think you can take Romo off my list after tonight.

primetime said:

Manning, Wilson, and Brees certainly, and arguably Calvin Johnson, McCoy, and Newton are all as or more deserving than Brady this year.

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Brees doesnt win MVP's. Thats for the the trendy, popular, or cute. Not stats or real work. Ask PM.

Brees is a ridiculous player and deserving of the MVP almost every year. I mean as a general rule you can pick Brady/Manning/Brees/Rogers, throw a die and not be wrong as to who you give the MVP too.

Wilson this year has been almost that level as well (but not quite).

Gallo said:

The up and coming tight end that played like 2 games in the NFL before Manning? Also, D. Thomas was top echelon before 2012? Really? He was not. Same with Decker, who everybody thought about as a decent 2nd option, but no better. The truth is, outside of Welker, who really came in as a finished product obviously, Manning really made those guys, or at the very least put them on the map as top players at their position.

But even if you disregard that, let's talk about Brady... You guys really think he was the primary reason this team won at the beginning of the season? Because if remember correctly, lot of you guys bashed him even here, and he was putting up very pedestrian numbers. Obviously, it was tough with those weapons, but there is no way he should get most of the credit for those wins. The defense played pretty well that time, before the injuries. Also, if Manning breakes the TD record, isn't that unprecedented?

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They are great QB's and when they are surrounded with top level talent will do great things or have big stats, it's that simple. Manning's been surrounded by more for most of his career arguing D Thomas is some nobody is ridiculous. Yes he was a top echelon WR before 2012.

Playoffs 2011 2 games 10rec, 300yds, 1td Catching passes from who?

This is what Brady's done with top level talent the last 5 years.

66%comp, 23166yds, 187tds, 45ints, 105.7qbr 2 MVPs

Manning's putting up epic numbers, he has a great cast not a bunch of JAGs. Decker would be the #1 here hands down.

As for earlier in the year, the situation was beyond dire, no pass catching RB(vereen injured), no pass catching TE(Gronk injured), our #1 receiving target is a converted QB that's usually our 3rd or 4th option on the depth chart(Amendola injured), leaning on rookies and our O-line was playing like trash to boot. TB was dead in the water and people were calling for his head, I felt for the guy. Even with all that's gone bad he's still only thrown 9 INT's(as many Manning) and led some epic comebacks throwing to quite literally "nobody's". Not saying TB should be MVP just shedding a bit more light on his situation.

Re: Brady should be the MVP

Galeb said:

Manning's weapons are far superior to what Brady had in 07.

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This isn't true. Younger Welker is better than older Welker and Randy Moss is the second greatest WR to ever play the game and was still in his prime at the time. Decker is better than Gaffney/Stallworth, but those guys weren't scrubs either. Manning had Julius Thomas, Brady had Kevin Faulk, and the runners are pretty much a wash (Maroney/Morris had about as much ability as Moreno/Ball, both benefitted hugely from the passing game).

Of course, that's not a knock on the argument that Manning has a lot more to work with. That offense that surrounded Brady was one of the best of all-time, so we're talking historically good here.

Manning has played better than Brady this year so why would Brady get it?

BelizePats said:

Manning has played better than Brady this year so why would Brady get it?

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Exactly! Wonderfully said.

I hope Brady wins MVP this year.

Just for the sheer comedic value of the reaction from Patriot hater nation.

Dutchmaster617 said:

Typical Andy, a homer who thinks he is the king of the forum.

The question is why is it so hard for you to stop replying to me? We never agree, this discussion is silly but I have my say regardless of your complex.

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You should ask yourself the same question.
It is not my fault that you do not understand what the discussion is about.

primetime said:

Maybe Gostkowski should be MVP. The Patriots might be a .500 team with a league average kicker. (I'm only half-kidding here, Gostkowski has a serious claim for team MVP right now)

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16th ranked is 88%. Gostkowski is 94% with 30/32. 88% of 32 is 28.16.
That would be at worst 8-5 if he was a league average kicker, and that assumes 2 misses would have been game deciders, and we that is if we they came at exactly the wrong time.
He is having a nice year, but MVP is ridiculous. He has made 2 more FGs than an average K would have.