Who Lost Ground This Week?

[mgteich]

There are always winners and losers in any game, in any competition.

MY LIST

1) MORRIS
Jordan could have flopped or looked mediocre. He looked fine. I am not sure that we would sign Morris if he were available today. I think we should want five RB's.

2) CHAD JACKSON
he didn't help his cause. He still has plenty of time.

3) WEBSTER
Webster is a free agent running out of time. If he hadn't practiced, he could be put on the PUP list. He has and is vulnerable to be putting IR and cut when he can pass a physical.

4) CASSELL
Happy trails to you!

 

[bradmahn]

It's hard to argue against Webster, especially with the practice play of Wheatley, Bryant, Wilhite, and then Lewis Sanders looking pretty good last night.

 

[mgteich]

It seems that there are 11 defensive backs ahead of Webster at this point in the race for roster spots.

There are now 6 corners ahead of Webster.
Hobbs, Bryant, Wheatley, Wilhite, L. Sanders and Spann

And we have 5 safeties
Harrison, Meriweather, Sanders, Williams and Ventrone

It's hard to argue against Webster, especially with the practice play of Wheatley, Bryant, Wilhite, and then Lewis Sanders looking pretty good last night.

 

[BradyManny]

There are always winners and losers in any game, in any competition.

MY LIST

1) MORRIS
Jordan could have flopped or looked mediocre. He looked fine. I am not sure that we would sign Morris if he were available today. I think we should want five RB's.

2) CHAD JACKSON
he didn't help his cause. He still has plenty of time.

3) WEBSTER
Webster is a free agent running out of time. If he hadn't practiced, he could be put on the PUP list. He has and is vulnerable to be putting IR and cut when he can pass a physical.

4) CASSELL
Happy trails to you!

I think Jordan looked better than fine, he looked pretty good...he just happened to do it against 3rd stringers (keep in mind it was also with a 3rd string line).

As you say, time is still on Jackson's side. That was a weak performance by him last nite - but the whole offense sucked it up, and its hard to know who was at fault for what.

Agree about Webster - especially given Lewis Sanders looked pretty good, and he was someone who I'd figured was destined to be cut given the depth at the position. It'll be tough for Webster to make this team.

 

[Kdo5]

There are always winners and losers in any game, in any competition.

MY LIST

1) MORRIS
Jordan could have flopped or looked mediocre. He looked fine. I am not sure that we would sign Morris if he were available today. I think we should want five RB's.

2) CHAD JACKSON
he didn't help his cause. He still has plenty of time.

3) WEBSTER
Webster is a free agent running out of time. If he hadn't practiced, he could be put on the PUP list. He has and is vulnerable to be putting IR and cut when he can pass a physical.

4) CASSELL
Happy trails to you!

I bet if they wanted to put Morris out there he would have done just as good and probably better than Lamont Jordan. Jordan did decently behind a mediocre line against THIRD stringers and still only managed like 4.1 YPC. It was solid but nothing I would be jumping up and down about. Go back a few seasons and Patrick Cobbs tore up third string opponents, the guy didn't make the team.

I know Lamont Jordan is the new flavor of the month but I'm not even sure he is any better than Sammy Morris. If Sammy had something to worry about he'd be playing not staying precautionary on the sidelines when he has been playing full in TC.

If Jordan flopped against a bunch of reserves then that would be pretty bad wouldn't it? Its not like he churned out any big gains.

 

[BradyManny]

I bet if they wanted to put Morris out there he would have done just as good and probably better than Lamont Jordan. Jordan did decently behind a mediocre line against THIRD stringers and still only managed like 4.1 YPC. It was solid but nothing I would be jumping up and down about. Go back a few seasons and Patrick Cobbs tore up third string opponents, the guy didn't make the team.

Fair enough - but two points in response to that:

a) a bunch of his runs were short yardage situations which were designed only to gain a yard or two and get a first down or TD, and thus bringing his YPC down. I'd say his runs were very effective, regardless of YPC.
b) Sure, he did it against a bunch of scrubs, but he was also doing it behind the Pats 3rd string OL, which was beat up as it is.

Keeping all those variables in mind, I think he looked strong.

 

[signbabybrady]

I don't know about losing ground but it seemed as though Bryant struggled a little last night. Specifically it seemed as though they were picking on him on the first drive. 3 passes were completed in his direction, I recall them being underneath passes and he seemed to have a deep responsibilty but I have no real evidence other than hoping that was the case and he did seem to play real soft and deep.

 

[Rob0729]

I bet if they wanted to put Morris out there he would have done just as good and probably better than Lamont Jordan. Jordan did decently behind a mediocre line against THIRD stringers and still only managed like 4.1 YPC. It was solid but nothing I would be jumping up and down about. Go back a few seasons and Patrick Cobbs tore up third string opponents, the guy didn't make the team.

I know Lamont Jordan is the new flavor of the month but I'm not even sure he is any better than Sammy Morris. If Sammy had something to worry about he'd be playing not staying precautionary on the sidelines when he has been playing full in TC.

If Jordan flopped against a bunch of reserves then that would be pretty bad wouldn't it? Its not like he churned out any big gains.

Jordan has proven with other teams he was a better back than Morris though. Look at what he did in a similiar role as he will play here with the Jets. LaMont Jordan was arguably the best change of pace back in the league in 2004. Granted it was two years ago, but he played lights out at the beginning of the season before he got hurt (70 rushing yards and a TD along with 89 receiving yards vs. Detriot, 159 rushing yards vs. Denver, and 121 rushing yards and a TD along with 32 receiving yards vs. Cleveland and teams were putting eight in the box against Oakland).

Jordan is our second best RB in my opinion. I felt that the day we signed the guy. Now that he is in a system that isn't asking him to be a full time starter and playing the role he was born to play, I see him as a better option than Morris in every situation except for blocking.

Last night's performance didn't change my opinion of him whatsoever. In fact, I turned off the game long before he got most of his carries.

 

[Rob0729]

There are always winners and losers in any game, in any competition.

MY LIST

1) MORRIS
Jordan could have flopped or looked mediocre. He looked fine. I am not sure that we would sign Morris if he were available today. I think we should want five RB's.

2) CHAD JACKSON
he didn't help his cause. He still has plenty of time.

3) WEBSTER
Webster is a free agent running out of time. If he hadn't practiced, he could be put on the PUP list. He has and is vulnerable to be putting IR and cut when he can pass a physical.

4) CASSELL
Happy trails to you!

1.) Morris was my potential surprise cut before camp. Adding Jordan helped my convictions, but I don't think last night changed anything for Morris. I think Belichick already knows what he has in Jordan since he studied so much film of him when he was with the Jets.

2.) Jackson didn't help his cause last night, but I don't know if he did a lot of damage either. He will be given a lot more chances in the next few games.

3.) I wasn't in love with Bryant's play last night, but that is a position with a lot of competition. Eventhough I think Bryant went down a peg, I still think Webster has a lot of CBs to jump to get on the roster.

4.) I was never swept up in Cassel-mania, but I have believed for a while that his play had regressed (since last preseason). I though this was a make or break preseason for him and he looks like he may be breaking.

 

[Metaphors]

There are always winners and losers in any game, in any competition.

MY LIST

1) MORRIS
Jordan could have flopped or looked mediocre. He looked fine. I am not sure that we would sign Morris if he were available today. I think we should want five RB's.

2) CHAD JACKSON
he didn't help his cause. He still has plenty of time.

3) WEBSTER
Webster is a free agent running out of time. If he hadn't practiced, he could be put on the PUP list. He has and is vulnerable to be putting IR and cut when he can pass a physical.

4) CASSELL
Happy trails to you!

Good list and explanations. I would add:

5) RUUD
Both Redd and Guyton didn't overly impress but they certainly didn't look overwhelmed or out of place. Like Webster, he needs to get back on the practice field soon.

6) BRYANT
Not a big deal, but those two early passes looked entirely too easy.

7) HOBSON
He should have been resting comfortably after the first quarter, not seeing his first action after halftime.

I'm hesistant to include Yates and Britt since the entire OL seemed out of sync.

On the plus side (besides the obvious ones):

1) STUPAR
Looked solid with his limited chances and keeps his name in the conversation for 3rd TE.

2) K.SMITH
Very active which could be important if Wright can't get off PUP.

 

[Pats726]

There are always winners and losers in any game, in any competition.

MY LIST

1) MORRIS
Jordan could have flopped or looked mediocre. He looked fine. I am not sure that we would sign Morris if he were available today. I think we should want five RB's.

2) CHAD JACKSON
he didn't help his cause. He still has plenty of time.

3) WEBSTER
Webster is a free agent running out of time. If he hadn't practiced, he could be put on the PUP list. He has and is vulnerable to be putting IR and cut when he can pass a physical.

4) CASSELL
Happy trails to you!

Agree on Cassel...that was not good..almost HARD to be that bad..he's a goner...not sure why as he looked a lot better 2 years ago..seems like wrong situation.
I thought Webster looked quite good and then..an injury..with this copetition he could be the odd man out..or IRed for next year ala Chad Scott...It's a bit sad when one is injured..and projected down..but I think it's a numbers game..actually only 5 corners...Spann has been playing safety..but when Sanders showed a bit more promise..it looks bad for him.
Jackson has some more time left. I didn't think Cassel heped him at all...that pass was way ahead of him and with a trip..he couldn't get there..(no flag?) The screen was to him but so wasn't the linebacker. I want to see how he plays with Brady.
Actually I think Morris might be signed today. I really think they are going for a very strong and consistent running game...and with 4 plus Evans they will be insured of that basically.
I know all seem to dream of footballs flying here and there like last year, but having a very strong running game will open up teh pass even more. And later in the game with workhorses kill teh clock a lot easier. Even if 1 of the 4 goes down..there are 3..I really think 1 will be inactive and 3 part of the plan..but I also think that depends on the opponent...BUT if there is a difference, this year from last..it will be in more emphasis on the run game.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Fair enough - but two points in response to that:

a) a bunch of his runs were short yardage situations which were designed only to gain a yard or two and get a first down or TD, and thus bringing his YPC down. I'd say his runs were very effective, regardless of YPC.
b) Sure, he did it against a bunch of scrubs, but he was also doing it behind the Pats 3rd string OL, which was beat up as it is.

Keeping all those variables in mind, I think he looked strong.

Football Outsiders measures "success rate" for RBs, which is basically the ability to get "good" yardage on a run (40% of needed amount on 1st down, 60% on 2nd, and 100% on 3rd/4th).

Jordan succeeded on 9 of 19 carries, or 47%. Last season, Maroney succeeded on 58%, and that was the second highest figure in the NFL.

 

[Rob0729]

Football Outsiders measures "success rate" for RBs, which is basically the ability to get "good" yardage on a run (40% of needed amount on 1st down, 60% on 2nd, and 100% on 3rd/4th).

Jordan succeeded on 9 of 19 carries, or 47%. Last season, Maroney succeeded on 58%, and that was the second highest figure in the NFL.

In fairness to Jordan, he played for the Raiders who didn't have a passing game. Teams loaded up 8-9 players in the box because they weren't afraid of their passing game.

Conversely, Morris benefitted from teams begging the Pats to run the ball so Brady wouldn't beat them into submission with his one-two punch of Moss and Welker. Morris saw a lot of 7, 6, and even 5 in the box because teams double and triple teamed Moss and double teamed Welker at the same time on many plays.

Not taking away from what Morris did because he exceeded expectations, but comparing the two on "good yardage" may not be a fair comparision because the situations they were in.

 

[BradyManny]

Football Outsiders measures "success rate" for RBs, which is basically the ability to get "good" yardage on a run (40% of needed amount on 1st down, 60% on 2nd, and 100% on 3rd/4th).

Jordan succeeded on 9 of 19 carries, or 47%. Last season, Maroney succeeded on 58%, and that was the second highest figure in the NFL.

Interesting, very nice insights - both re: Jordan last nite and Maroney last season.

 

[mgteich]

In a couple of weeks we've gone from
A) Being all set at rb to
B) Picking up Jordan who may or may not make the team to
C) Jordan being compared in effectiveness to Maroney

My bottom line is that Jordan was a great pickup, and may or may not be better than Morris.

Football Outsiders measures "success rate" for RBs, which is basically the ability to get "good" yardage on a run (40% of needed amount on 1st down, 60% on 2nd, and 100% on 3rd/4th).

Jordan succeeded on 9 of 19 carries, or 47%. Last season, Maroney succeeded on 58%, and that was the second highest figure in the NFL.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

There are always winners and losers in any game, in any competition.

MY LIST

1) MORRIS
Jordan could have flopped or looked mediocre. He looked fine. I am not sure that we would sign Morris if he were available today. I think we should want five RB's.

2) CHAD JACKSON
he didn't help his cause. He still has plenty of time.

3) WEBSTER
Webster is a free agent running out of time. If he hadn't practiced, he could be put on the PUP list. He has and is vulnerable to be putting IR and cut when he can pass a physical.

4) CASSELL
Happy trails to you!

How is Yates not top of this list? He was HORRIBLE! He couldn't drive block a stationary puck on ice and move it backwards. I think on one play Price sneezed and Yates fell over backwards. Yates is a mess! At this point I think a fire hydrant might be more useful than Yates out there.

Memo to BB: Please do not put Brady in a preseason game with Yates, Yates will get Brady killed.

Memo to BB Part II: Please put Yates in a preseason game whenever Cassell is the QB.

 

[LuthierJr]

I'm thrilled we got Jordan. Cassel was horrid, and I hope he is gone. Jackson was quite, but I'd still like to see brady throwing to him. The young D looked adequate. I think they will mature nicely.

 

[Iron Helmet]

I thought Jordan ran like an out of shape running back: slow, no burst or pop. He started strong, then faded. Not as impressed as everyone else seems to be.

I hope he rounds into football shape soon. For those thinking Morris is feeling the heat from him, I think they are nuts. Morris more than proved himself last year, and the job is his to keep, unless he suffers multiple Cassell like performances.

 

[Pats726]

In a couple of weeks we've gone from
A) Being all set at rb to
B) Picking up Jordan who may or may not make the team to
C) Jordan being compared in effectiveness to Maroney

My bottom line is that Jordan was a great pickup, and may or may not be better than Morris.

I wonder if one thing that has changed are the thoughts on what the offense will be like this year?? I THINK that might be part of what is going on..
A) I think it (the team being all set) was when the thought was that the offense would be similar to last year...(some thought a young RB might be added...)
B) When Jordan was picked up..thoughts changed---some thought, may still think he is competition with Morris (which MIGHT be the case..) but others thought that maybe the offense would change with more of a running game. The fact that there has been MORE emphasis on a running game in camp might just lead one to think that they would keep 4 and Evans..so that they will always have 3 RBs who can carry the ball in a game..minimum..
C) I think this is a stretch at best--they are different types of backs..it's interesting to compare..but I think they may go for the solid running game this year. And having Maroney, Faulk, Morris AND Jordan...would be solid!!!
Time will tell..they COULD only keep 3...but I just have a hunch given last year that they will keep 4 plus the really versatile Evans.

 

[bradmahn]

This "changing the offense" bit is a little overstated, in my opinion. When they opened the season they were running the ball with conviction - and then they lost Morris and Maroney was battling an injury. On top of that they played several defenses that were very good against the run. After that, in December and throughout the playoffs, they ran the ball with just as much authority and determination.