Looking forward to Groves' performance

[Crazyeechrispats1]

How as a fan would you all feel and the impossible happened and the Patriots drafted Gholston, then used half their draft to trade back in the draft to snatch groves and be set at outside linebacker for years to come.
Then used the middle rounds to grab defensive backs how would you guys feel about that.
Even though it doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of occuring.

 

[ATippett56]

How as a fan would you all feel and the impossible happened and the Patriots drafted Gholston, then used half their draft to trade back in the draft to snatch groves and be set at outside linebacker for years to come.
Then used the middle rounds to grab defensive backs how would you guys feel about that.
Even though it doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of occuring.

I would say the Patriots cornerbacks aside from Ellis Hobbs would be the worst in the NFL.

 

[ATippett56]

Avril's an interesting guy if the Patriots choose to go another route with the 7th pick or trade down. But Groves played this last year almost exclusively at OLB.

Groves struggled at outside linebacker:

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/quentin-groves?id=240

Groves played linebacker vs. Tennessee Tech, Georgia and Alabama at the end of 2007 season, but struggled with the new rush and pass concepts (needs to convince scouts he can adapt to his new role as a hybrid OLB/DE).

 

[ATippett56]

I'm curious also. Groves is high on my list. What about all of you? Let's put another way. If Gholston were gone at #6, how would you all feel about getting Groves? Wouldn't he be an instant upgrade to Woods, and a major future contributer? Now, after we all say how much we like Groves, we should consider the comparison to Gholston once again.

I would rather trade down and grab another second round draft pick.

 

[Jimke]

I would say the Patriots cornerbacks aside from Ellis Hobbs would be the worst in the NFL.

You don't mince any words. This is also my impression when I look

at the cornerbacks under contract: Hobbs, Mixon, Richardson, and

Spann. Dom Capers better be studying up on alchemy.

 

[ATippett56]

You don't mince any words. This is also my impression when I look

at the cornerbacks under contract: Hobbs, Mixon, Richardson, and

Spann. Dom Capers better be studying up on alchemy.

As much as I'm drooling over Gholston, I realize that the best interest of the Patriots is to trade down from number 7 at all costs and pick up another second round draft pick. The Patriots number one priority this year is to select a cornerback (preferably two within the first three rounds) since the best available cornerbacks this year have been tagged outside of Asante Samuel.

 

[sebman2112]

Groves struggled at outside linebacker:

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/quentin-groves?id=240

Groves played linebacker vs. Tennessee Tech, Georgia and Alabama at the end of 2007 season, but struggled with the new rush and pass concepts (needs to convince scouts he can adapt to his new role as a hybrid OLB/DE).

Few notes here:

First I'll quote other areas of that report...

Named to Bronko Nagurski Trophy, Chuck Bednarik Award and Hendricks Award preseason watch lists, Groves was having a banner 2007 campaign until he suffered dislocated toes on his right foot in the season's fifth game vs. Florida. The injury cost him two games of action and when he returned, he was used mostly in a reserve role before starting at left outside linebacker vs. Tennessee Tech after playing left defensive end in the Tigers' first five contests. He also closed out his career by starting vs. Clemson in the Chick-Fil-A Bowl at left end.

In 11 games in 2007, Groves registered 38 tackles (23 solos). He had three sacks, seven stops for losses and led the Southeastern Conference with a career-high 23 quarterback pressures. He also caused a pair of fumbles, including one that a teammate returned for a touchdown.

Compares To: DeMARCUS WARE-Dallas...Much like the Chargers' Shawne Merriman and Ware, Groves has that explosive quickness and outstanding suddenness to wreak havoc in the backfield. He is a perfect fit for a hybrid outside linebacker/rush end position in a 3-4 defensive scheme and like Merriman and Ware, he could thrive if allowed to play in a stand-up position. He was having a banner senior campaign before dislocating several toes, but with his balance and body control, along with lateral movement, he should have no problems adjusting to playing off the line. With so much emphasis on pressuring the pocket and getting to the quarterback in the NFL, there is no other player in this draft that can match Groves' pass rushing ability.

So, that very report (from nfldraftscout.com) states the same things I've been saying. They even project him as a 3-4 OLB, and compare him to some of the better 3-4 pass rushing OLB's in the NFL. That report also repeats my contention that he was coming off an injury (dislocated toes) when Auburn tried shifting him to OLB. I don't really think you can fully gage his potential at 3-4 OLB from his performances in those games, considering he was injured. Also, it's going to take any player some period of adjustment when switching positions. And, his role in NE's defense would actually be more similar to playing DE, than playing OLB in a 4-3.

 

[chowder]

FWIW, Sporting News has Long as the first overall pick, Groves going to the Jets at #6, and Jenkins to the Patriots at #7 (again, I want nothing to do with Ohio State players, so that isn't something I'd be happy with).

don't worry, Malcolm Jenkins is staying at Ohio State another year, but I wouldn't wan't either Jenkins because Mike Jenkins seems inconsistent too. I'd rather have one of the other corners if we go that route for #7. the more i hear about Groves the more impressed I am with him. Anybody remember AJ Hawk's 40 time, because Groves seems to be in that range too?

 

[ATippett56]

So, that very report (from nfldraftscout.com) states the same things I've been saying. They even project him as a 3-4 OLB, and compare him to some of the better 3-4 pass rushing OLB's in the NFL. That report also repeats my contention that he was coming off an injury (dislocated toes) when Auburn tried shifting him to OLB. I don't really think you can fully gage his potential at 3-4 OLB from his performances in those games, considering he was injured. Also, it's going to take any player some period of adjustment when switching positions. And, his role in NE's defense would actually be more similar to playing DE, than playing OLB in a 4-3.

Unfortunately I don't like the idea of waiting until the second round, especially the bottom of the second round, to select the Patriots first cornerback in the 2008 NFL Draft.

Meanwhile, Atlanta Falcons DeAngelo Hall wants $10 million a year along with soon to be former Patriots cornerback Asante Samuel. Cornerbacks in unrestricted free agency and those who wish to be traded are starting to lose their minds.

 

[sebman2112]

Question, what was Groves official weight at the combine? I was just looking at footballsfuture.com and their combine section has Groves weighing in at 259lbs at the combine. If that is his true weight then his forty, ten split, broad (10'), and short shuttle are slightly more impressive (I thought he was 250lbs even, not a hair under 260lbs). That's also about the perfect size for a 3-4 OLB.

 

[Patdown93]

I think that if Gholston is available at 7 we take him.

If not, I would not be surprised to see us trade down to 12 for Denver's 1st and 2nd round picks(which, according to the draft chart is almost equal in value).

We'd then be able to either take the second best corner as New Orleans will probably take a corner unless they get Asante or Groves I suppose. Though some may feel 12 is too high for Groves. That gives us two second round picks of course.

That would give us a ton of options with those picks. We could go:

CB - OT - CB or LB - OT - CB or LB - CB - CB

I do think the best remedy for a secondary is immense and quick pressure, as we saw from the Giants.

 

[Patdown93]

Question, what was Groves official weight at the combine? I was just looking at footballsfuture.com and their combine section has Groves weighing in at 259lbs at the combine. If that is his true weight then his forty, ten split, broad (10'), and short shuttle are slightly more impressive (I thought he was 250lbs even, not a hair under 260lbs). That's also about the perfect size for a 3-4 OLB.

Oh, and Groves came in at 6'3 250.

 

[sebman2112]

Oh, and Groves came in at 6'3 250.

Yea, link?

FootballsFuture.com has his COMBINE weight at 259lbs. I'm not talking about his listed weight on a profile, but his actual weight at the combine.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2008/combineDL.html

 

[Patdown93]

Yea, link?

FootballsFuture.com has his COMBINE weight at 259lbs. I'm not talking about his listed weight on a profile, but his actual weight at the combine.

Ee it won't let me post a link... but it was from NFL.com. Though, now I'm beginning to doubt if NFL.com updated their player profiles...

 

[dryheat44]

It's funny to discount the Big 10 as inferior when we have 6/22 starters from there. Compared to 2 (+ 3 rotational guys) from the SEC. Belichick apparently has no problem with the quality of the programs there.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

While not entirely fair, I think that if you compare Gholston's play in the championship game last season against what Groves did to LSU, you clearly see that Groves is the guy. The raw overweight LSU OT owned Gholston almost from start to finish. Not good!.

However if you watch OSU and Michigan play and then watch Michigan and Florida play, you clearly see that Gholston was a much better player than Harvey.

And finally if you watch the Florida Auburn game from the year before. you will notice how Groves negatively affected impacted both Leak and Tebow's game.

Besides being able to trade down and pick up some change for moving down later in the first round, I am a Groves fan for one simple reason, I think he is much more sudden then either Long or Gholston. I don't need Groves to be a 3 down LB as a rookie. I need someone who can get to the QB off the edge in a hurry. And I spent most of the last half of the 2007 season upset that the Pats could not get heat on the opposing QB on third and long. How sad was it to watch Feely and Boller and a one legged Rivers and the Jags QB and Eli just rip our soft zone defense to pieces with their nice clean jerseys.

Everything else about our defense works, until we get to third and long, then a lack of a pass rush and a soft zone secondary are exposed.

All that being said however, if someone can bring to light the reported "character issues/baggage" that Groves has, it might change my mind, depending on the nature of the baggage.

 

[primetime]

Question, what was Groves official weight at the combine? I was just looking at footballsfuture.com and their combine section has Groves weighing in at 259lbs at the combine. If that is his true weight then his forty, ten split, broad (10'), and short shuttle are slightly more impressive (I thought he was 250lbs even, not a hair under 260lbs). That's also about the perfect size for a 3-4 OLB.

Sporting News has him at 259, too. I think NFL.com did not update their profiles.

 

[sebman2112]

Sporting News has him at 259, too. I think NFL.com did not update their profiles.

Thanks for the update. I remember some guys dropping weight before the combine so they could get their speed up, but this year it seems most prospects gained weight.

Gholston went from 250-254lbs up to 266lbs, and was able to maintain his speed.

Goff came in at 245lbs, which is up from his expected 236-238lbs, and he posted faster times than some had expected.

During the season I believe Keith Rivers was listed at something like 220lbs, and at the combine he weighed 241lbs.

But, the biggest weight gain that I can think of (off the top of my head) came from Bruce Davis. All season he was listed at 228-229lbs. At the Combine he weighed 252lbs.

With some of these weight gains there seems to be a decent list of 3-4 OLB prospects, and while there's not a strong crop of 3-4 ILB, I do think a few different prospects could become starters in NE's system.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Yea, link?

FootballsFuture.com has his COMBINE weight at 259lbs. I'm not talking about his listed weight on a profile, but his actual weight at the combine.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2008/combineDL.html

6'3 259 with 4.6 speed? If that is true, yeah he sounds like a good fit!

 

[sebman2112]

6'3 259 with 4.6 speed? If that is true, yeah he sounds like a good fit!

6'3" 259lbs with 4.57 forty speed, and more importantly (according to scouts on hand) one of the fastest 10 splits in Combine history.

Oh, and he previously ran a 4.43 forty for NFL scouts.