The Coaching Staff

[DaBruinz]

Chances are all the coaches, including MARRONE, saw Lowe and Brown in practice and thought they actually wouldn't have been better. I'd bet my life on it. It really is that simple.

The bill was stretched to its maximum last year. We were tapped. We had only ONE good draft under the belt, we reconfigured almost all positions, we exhausted many rotations due to sustained injuries at important positions during the reg season. We had our QB & LT play the longest season of their careers by far.

The coaching staff took an extremely unknown roster and squeezed every ounce out of them they could.

The coaches don't have ESP. They aren't the 2nd coming of Ms. Cleo. They can't know how a player will react in the game unless that player gets the chance. That's how the "heroes" of these games are born.

That being said, to the fans eyes, Brown was the better player last year at LG than Wilson, yet the Pats kept him in a reserve capacity to help develop Wilson. Lowe appeared to be less of a bad player last year, but the pressures allowed stats say he didn't really improve with the stability of Marrone as his line coach.

We'll never truly know what could have been if Brown and/or Lowe had been subbed in.

 

[Vindicate]

The coaches don't have ESP. They aren't the 2nd coming of Ms. Cleo. They can't know how a player will react in the game unless that player gets the chance. That's how the "heroes" of these games are born.

That being said, to the fans eyes, Brown was the better player last year at LG than Wilson, yet the Pats kept him in a reserve capacity to help develop Wilson. Lowe appeared to be less of a bad player last year, but the pressures allowed stats say he didn't really improve with the stability of Marrone as his line coach.

We'll never truly know what could have been if Brown and/or Lowe had been subbed in.

Care to say more on this? Genuinely asking - I don't share the same position, but I'm also not saying I'm right. Was there a quote from staff that they were instead trying to develop Wilson?

Or maybe some stats to point to with Wilson vs. Brown and how the offense performed under either?

To be totally forward, I am not a fan of "we truly never know arguments" because it just leaves all the room in the world for speculation. I'm not saying that in an "appease me" manner, I'm just being forward with my thoughts process. I'm far more inclined to believe that the staff saw more hope in the starters over the backups and little changed on gameday.

Again, all my questions are of genuine curiousity and I'm not trying to do some "gotchya" ****.

 

[mgteich]

Chances are all the coaches, including MARRONE, saw Lowe and Brown in practice and thought they actually wouldn't have been better. I'd bet my life on it. It really is that simple.

The bill was stretched to its maximum last year. We were tapped. We had only ONE good draft under the belt, we reconfigured almost all positions, we exhausted many rotations due to sustained injuries at important positions during the reg season. We had our QB & LT play the longest season of their careers by far.

The coaching staff took an extremely unknown roster and squeezed every ounce out of them they could.

I generally agree.

An open question is whether the staff misjudged and expected more than they should have from a rookie recovering from an injury. Lowe was a known quantity. In the end, they took a shot that they could get more out of Campbell.

 

[mayoclinic]

More on Thomas Brown from Mike areiss:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/49327147/patriots-assistant-coach-thomas-brown-reflects-nfl-journey

 

[DaBruinz]

Care to say more on this? Genuinely asking - I don't share the same position, but I'm also not saying I'm right. Was there a quote from staff that they were instead trying to develop Wilson?

Or maybe some stats to point to with Wilson vs. Brown and how the offense performed under either?

To be totally forward, I am not a fan of "we truly never know arguments" because it just leaves all the room in the world for speculation. I'm not saying that in an "appease me" manner, I'm just being forward with my thoughts process. I'm far more inclined to believe that the staff saw more hope in the starters over the backups and little changed on gameday.

Again, all my questions are of genuine curiousity and I'm not trying to do some "gotchya" ****.

There was no quote from the Coaching staff in regards to keeping Wilson at LG to develop him over putting Brown there. Not sure when PFF fixed it, but for the longest time, they had Ben Brown's snaps fubared. They had him taking offensive snaps in games he never did. They still have the POSITION fubared since Brown didn't play any full games at LT. However, they seem to have fixed the games played in. So I went and grabbed the pressures allowed stats (PA = Sacks + QB Hits + Hurries)

Reg Season:

Ben Brown - 329 total Offensive snaps - 165 pass blocking snaps - 0 Sacks, 2 QB Hits, 8 Hurries - 10 total pressures - 1 pressure every 16.5 snaps

Jared Wilson - 784 total offensive snaps - 486 pass blocking snaps - 4 sacks, 7 QB Hits, 17 hurries - 28 total pressures - 1 pressure every 17.3 snaps.

Post season -
Wilson - 254 offensive snaps - 164 pass blocking snaps - 4 sacks, 0 QB Hits, 9 Hurries - 13 total pressures - 1 pressure every 12.6 snaps.

Wilson gave up 4 sacks and 6 hurries in the Play-off games where the Passing game was featured in the post season. He gave up 3 hurries in the 2 games where the running game got more snaps;. Wilson gave up 2 sacks and 4 hurries on 40 pass blocking snaps against the Chargers. That's 1 pressure every 6.7 snaps. Probably his worst game of the season. But we also know he wasn't 100% the entire post-season. He may have also hit the "rookie wall" in terms of fatigue.

*SPECULATION AHEAD*
Maybe Wilson not giving up any sacks against Houston and Denver lulled the coaching staff into a false sense of security. But the passing game became a lesser focus in both those games. Which should have factored into their decision. It could also have been that the team wanted to show they had confidence in Wilson, so they left him in there despite the issues he was having in both the running game and passing game.
*End of Speculation*

If someone knows of the site where they break down the running game and talk about how many yards they got behind each position, I'd appreciate that.

While you may not like the "we will truly never know" argument, it's reality. There are near infinite possibilities, both good and bad, had they put Brown in when Wilson was clearly struggling during the SB. History is littered with examples of coaches substituting a player and it being successful. There are also plenty of instances where coaches left a player in and it bit them. The 1986 Red Sox come to mind.

 

[Vindicate]

There was no quote from the Coaching staff in regards to keeping Wilson at LG to develop him over putting Brown there. Not sure when PFF fixed it, but for the longest time, they had Ben Brown's snaps fubared. They had him taking offensive snaps in games he never did. They still have the POSITION fubared since Brown didn't play any full games at LT. However, they seem to have fixed the games played in. So I went and grabbed the pressures allowed stats (PA = Sacks + QB Hits + Hurries)

Reg Season:

Ben Brown - 329 total Offensive snaps - 165 pass blocking snaps - 0 Sacks, 2 QB Hits, 8 Hurries - 10 total pressures - 1 pressure every 16.5 snaps

Jared Wilson - 784 total offensive snaps - 486 pass blocking snaps - 4 sacks, 7 QB Hits, 17 hurries - 28 total pressures - 1 pressure every 17.3 snaps.

Interesting here that when Brown was in, they ran pass plays at 50% of his offensive snaps, whereas Wilson was ~62%. Could be the competition they faced and just a product of game planning - or potentially, they thought either:

The run game operates better with Brown in OR they weren't as confident in the pass game with Brown in. I do remember the run game felt a bit more effective with Brown.

Post season -
Wilson - 254 offensive snaps - 164 pass blocking snaps - 4 sacks, 0 QB Hits, 9 Hurries - 13 total pressures - 1 pressure every 12.6 snaps.

Wilson gave up 4 sacks and 6 hurries in the Play-off games where the Passing game was featured in the post season. He gave up 3 hurries in the 2 games where the running game got more snaps;. Wilson gave up 2 sacks and 4 hurries on 40 pass blocking snaps against the Chargers. That's 1 pressure every 6.7 snaps. Probably his worst game of the season. But we also know he wasn't 100% the entire post-season. He may have also hit the "rookie wall" in terms of fatigue.

And it's fair to say that Wilson's struggles made things more difficult for Campbell.

*SPECULATION AHEAD*
Maybe Wilson not giving up any sacks against Houston and Denver lulled the coaching staff into a false sense of security. But the passing game became a lesser focus in both those games. Which should have factored into their decision. It could also have been that the team wanted to show they had confidence in Wilson, so they left him in there despite the issues he was having in both the running game and passing game.
*End of Speculation*

An interesting thing to ponder given the snap breakdowns above, seeing as they were running more with Brown on the field, for whatever reason. Gives merit to the idea that giving Brown a shot when things are getting rough.

 

[State]

More on Thomas Brown from Mike areiss:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/49327147/patriots-assistant-coach-thomas-brown-reflects-nfl-journey

Thomas Brown: Whiny ***** who's race obsessed. Guy is not as smart as our even younger DC who passed his audition last year. Crushed it, actually.

 

[n1997y]

I generally agree.

An open question is whether the staff misjudged and expected more than they should have from a rookie recovering from an injury. Lowe was a known quantity. In the end, they took a shot that they could get more out of Campbell.

And didn’t correct when it was obvious that shot didn’t land