Will Campbell's a God

[Uptown]

 

[dliverey44]

This is a really weird thread, at least the initial post was a bit weird. I had reservations about Campbell being drafted at 4, it was not the arm length for me but the way he lost and how high he plays in college. I felt that he had a pretty good season as a rook (up and down but showed a good foundation and fixable weaknesses) and think that having an experienced guy next to him will help (hopefully AVT stays healthy).

Most rookie OTs are up and down all season, so Campbell fell into the rule and not the exception.

 

[dliverey44]

I think we could debate Campbell's length until the cows come home.
There's no doubt that was a real concern going into the draft, his short arms and lack of wingspan.
The issue did show up sometimes on his college tape.
But besides the wingspan weakness there is the question about him losing to raw power.

A point in Campbell's favor, he did perform well in the NFL regular season against the majority of pass rushers.
BUT he got absolutely dumpstered by elite players such as the Browns Myles Garrett.
In the playoffs, he was just terrible. Was that because Campbell was coming off injury or was it the length issue again?

Honestly I don't know if Campbell should be moved. Maybe he would fare better at Right Tackle or inside as Guard.
I suspect he will be competing in training camp with Lomu but most likely he will keep his job if he can show he has recovered from injury and Lomu will end up taking snaps at Right tackle.

Long term I wouldn't mind Lomu at LT and Campbell at RT. Right tackle is a less demanding position, and maybe it's easier for an LT to flip to the Right Side then for an RT to flip to the left side.
Keep in mind this move in position wouldn't be an indictment on Campbell, rather it just might be the best way to maximize the talent on the OL. Also consider that at Utah Lomu played LT while Fano played RT. Fano was taken ahead of him which means some NFL talent evaluators considered Fano to be more talented.

I say for now just let them compete in training camp and our OL coach will need to figure out the jigsaw and put them in the best position to succeed.

I disagree with this point given how often Edge rushers often play each side. Back in the day the "faster guy" played on the right side of the defense but that not really the case anymore.

I agree about letting them all compete and then start the best 5. I have a feeling that Campbell will be the best LT out of TC

 

[StanleyGrogan]

This is a really weird thread, at least the initial post was a bit weird. I had reservations about Campbell being drafted at 4, it was not the arm length for me but the way he lost and how high he plays in college. I felt that he had a pretty good season as a rook (up and down but showed a good foundation and fixable weaknesses) and think that having an experienced guy next to him will help (hopefully AVT stays healthy).

Most rookie OTs are up and down all season, so Campbell fell into the rule and not the exception.

It isnt weird when you factor in the posting history of the thread starter last season. Go have a read, it will all make sense. Or dont. Go do something more productive , like watching water evaporate.

 

[Huckleberry1]

This is a really weird thread, at least the initial post was a bit weird. I had reservations about Campbell being drafted at 4, it was not the arm length for me but the way he lost and how high he plays in college. I felt that he had a pretty good season as a rook (up and down but showed a good foundation and fixable weaknesses) and think that having an experienced guy next to him will help (hopefully AVT stays healthy).

Most rookie OTs are up and down all season, so Campbell fell into the rule and not the exception.

I agree with much of this, but Canpbell really didn't lose in college. He only allowed 3 sacks and 16 pressures in 3 years. The great things about Campbell, Wilson, and Lomu are that all 3 are exceptional athletes, and all having a reputation for having high football IQ's, and all 3 are very coachable. If they can afford to keep them all 3 could end up long term stalwarts on their OL.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Apparently, the team felt somewhat differently. Surely, Vrabel could have signed a 2nd level seasoned vet as a LT backup (a direct replacement for Lowe). Instead, Vrabel chose to wait and draft a LT.

They didn't even expect Lomu to be available, so I don't think it's reasonable to say this was the exact plan.

 

[Ross12]

That's the steal of the F'n draft you're talking about my man

He was the steal of the draft - as in, he was actually stolen. No one can find him.

 

[vicspats]

Give the kid some time to develop. TB’s rookie year he played in one game, completing 1 pass out of 3 attempts for 6 yards, resulting in a passer rating of 42.4.

Who??

 

[mgteich]

They didn't even expect Lomu to be available, so I don't think it's reasonable to say this was the exact plan.

Let me get this straight, when Lomu was available we didn't CHOOSE to move up for a LT?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Let me get this straight, when Lomu was available we didn't CHOOSE to move up for a LT?

Read that whole post again. I'm saying the plan wasn't "we won't sign a FA LT because we plan to draft an LT."

 

[mgteich]

Read that whole post again. I'm saying the plan wasn't "we won't sign a FA LT because we plan to draft an LT."

Ok, fair enough.

I DO believe that we didn't sign a free agent because we hoped to draft someone to be our backup LT, replacing Lowe.

Obviously, the team could have been counting on Bryant to be our replacement for Lowe; I just don't think that to be the case.

 

[dliverey44]

I agree with much of this, but Canpbell really didn't lose in college. He only allowed 3 sacks and 16 pressures in 3 years. The great things about Campbell, Wilson, and Lomu are that all 3 are exceptional athletes, and all having a reputation for having high football IQ's, and all 3 are very coachable. If they can afford to keep them all 3 could end up long term stalwarts on their OL.

When evaluating him he did have quite a few losses. Remember losses to do not necessarily result in a sack or pressure, I was looking at him 1 vs 1 against the pass rusher to gauge skill and technique. For the record all OL-men have losses, they key is whether they can improve their bodies and technique to improve their singular battles.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Let me get this straight, when Lomu was available we didn't CHOOSE to move up for a LT?

We chose to move up for the last top-tier OT, whether it was R or L. We weren't targeting a LT, and we're somewhat gambling that Lomu can make the switch. After Lomu there were 35 picks before the next OT was taken, so he was the last one of that tier. The RT's that were supposed to be there had all been taken. That said, we'll see what the daily competition yields.

 

[Huckleberry1]

When evaluating him he did have quite a few losses. Remember losses to do not necessarily result in a sack or pressure, I was looking at him 1 vs 1 against the pass rusher to gauge skill and technique. For the record all OL-men have losses, they key is whether they can improve their bodies and technique to improve their singular battles.

Every snap is a battle, and OL get rated on pressures and sacks, just as pass rushers get rated on pressures and sacks.

 

[dliverey44]

Every snap is a battle, and OL get rated on pressures and sacks, just as pass rushers get rated on pressures and sacks.

Sure the results are part of it, but I argue that technique is more important and that is why you see people get drafted higher than other more productive players.

 

[mgteich]

We chose to move up for the last top-tier OT, whether it was R or L. We weren't targeting a LT, and we're somewhat gambling that Lomu can make the switch. After Lomu there were 35 picks before the next OT was taken, so he was the last one of that tier. The RT's that were supposed to be there had all been taken. That said, we'll see what the daily competition yields.

So, you are one of the very few who hoped that a RT would be there at 28. Even more, you thought that a RT would be there who could be a 2026 backup at LT. OK, hope is not a plan.

Unless the staff is sold on Bryant as a 2026 backup LT, the team was going to draft a LT backup. It was simply a matter of which TWO OT's would fit best and where in the draft we could get the best value.

IMO, Vrabel won big-time getting one of the top Lt's who willing be able to be a 2026 Rt backup and also a future contributor at RT. I find that got great value for a 1st, 4th and a 6th.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Sure the results are part of it, but I argue that technique is more important and that is why you see people get drafted higher than other more productive players.

And Will Campbell went into the year as the highest rated tackle, despite playing in easily the toughest conference. Then he remained the highest rated tackle throughout the season. Then he remained the highest rated tackle throughout the draft process. Then he was the first tackle taken in the draft. So by everyone else's standards and rankings he was the best tackle in the country but you think he struggled. It's like another poster here saying that he " didn't like the way he sets up." When his coaches are on that 24/7, and would be all over him if he wasn't setting up correctly. I get that people here are very into the draft, and that we have an excellent draft forum, but people shouldn't mistake that for knowing more about set up, techniques, and fulfilling assignments than the people who are actually paid to coach and evaluate those things for a living. Every snap an OL plays is a battle against some of the best athlete in this country, and Campbell only lost those battles 3-4 times (sacks) in 3 seasons, despite starting Day 1 as an 18 year old against the best pass rushers in college football. And he allowed only 16 pressures over the same time frame. The standards are high enough as it is, when a kid plays 60 snaps against Alabama and considers it a bad day if he allowed 1 sack and 2 pressures without some guy watching TV in his living room saying " actually Ted I thought he lost more battles than that." When he didn't allow a pressure or a sack on those plays. It's like a Quarterback following his reads and completing a 8 yard pass for a 1st down, and Billy Joe on his 8th beer in his BarcaLounger saying " he sucks, he had Raheem open crossing the middle for at least 20....'

OL " struggle" on every play, that goes with trying to keep 6'4 255 lb rushers who run 4'5's off your quarterback. If they don't allow a pressure or a sack then they won.

 

[State]

Campbell showed me can play tackle in the nfl.

No, not quite true. He didn't hold up well against elite competition. Remember the Cleveland game?

And what nfl.com said about him going into the draft bears retelling. In pass pro he oversets to the outside making himself vulnerable to inside moves. When one has a 77" wingspan, the shortest by an OT since measuring began in 2011, it becomes understandable.

In college he had the strength and athleticism to mask sloppy footwork in pass pro, which which surprisingly became more evident as a senior at LSU. He freakin regressed from his earlier dominance.

But the world saw his embarrassing SB performance. There's no hiding from that. It stings. Can't make that mistake again.

And to win a SB one needs his LT to hold up against the best competition. He lacks the length to do that. That's why his future home is LG.

Caleb Lomu is the more natural LT.

Oh, Camobell was injured in the SB? Welcome to football. Ask any player, former or current. You're going to play gimpy.

As I said last summer, his margin of error is smaller. Football's a game of inches. That's why conventional wisdom holds 34" arms on your OTs. Did you notice the arm length and wingspans of the OTs the team drafted this year?

Yep. QED.

 

[DaBruinz]

No, not quite true. He didn't hold up well against elite competition. Remember the Cleveland game?

And what nfl.com said about him going into the draft bears retelling. In pass pro he oversets to the outside making himself vulnerable to inside moves. When one has a 77" wingspan, the shortest by an OT since measuring began in 2011, it becomes understandable.

In college he had the strength and athleticism to mask sloppy footwork in pass pro, which which surprisingly became more evident as a senior at LSU. He freakin regressed from his earlier dominance.

You're full of garbage with this crap. You wouldn't recognize "sloppy footwork" if Dante Scarnecchia sat you down and held your hand while they slo-moed tape at 1 frame every second.

Campbell didnt't regress. He was playing INJURED. You've clearly never played sports let alone tried to play a position that requires your legs to be 100% to be able to perform well.

But the world saw his embarrassing SB performance. There's no hiding from that. It stings. Can't make that mistake again.

And to win a SB one needs his LT to hold up against the best competition. He lacks the length to do that. That's why his future home is LG.

Caleb Lomu is the more natural LT.

Oh, Camobell was injured in the SB? Welcome to football. Ask any player, former or current. You're going to play gimpy.

Newsflash. There is a difference between playing HURT and playing INJURED with a bum knee. You not understanding this FACT is why the board was so much better when you were on hiatus.

As I said last summer, his margin of error is smaller. Football's a game of inches. That's why conventional wisdom holds 34" arms on your OTs. Did you notice the arm length and wingspans of the OTs the team drafted this year?

Yep. QED.

The fact that you believe you're smarter than Dante Scarnecchia is telling of your moronic arrogance.

 

[TommyD4207]

You're full of garbage with this crap. You wouldn't recognize "sloppy footwork" if Dante Scarnecchia sat you down and held your hand while they slo-moed tape at 1 frame every second.

Campbell didnt't regress. He was playing INJURED. You've clearly never played sports let alone tried to play a position that requires your legs to be 100% to be able to perform well.


Newsflash. There is a difference between playing HURT and playing INJURED with a bum knee. You not understanding this FACT is why the board was so much better when you were on hiatus.



The fact that you believe you're smarter than Dante Scarnecchia is telling of your moronic arrogance.

"Nobody's beating Philly in the playoffs" - State