What is our plan for ILB?

[mgteich]

A lot of posters do not think it is a pretty good group.

.

I think it is all about Elliss. Vrabel thinks that he is a good starter. Many posters would prefer that he be restricted to ST play.

Also, many posters seem not to trust Vrable's ability to evaluate ILBs, an interesting idea.

 

[Ring 6]

I think it is all about Elliss. Vrabel thinks that he is a good starter. Many posters would prefer that he be restricted to ST play.

Also, many posters seem not to trust Vrable's ability to evaluate ILBs, an interesting idea.

All 32 teams evaluate players and all make some bad evaluations. I dint know why you think Vrabel is infallible.
Last year he wanted Elliss on the field along with guys other than Spillane that he changed his mind on and sent packing. That doesn’t sound like a good track record to me.
Are you saying he isn’t allowed to be questioned?

 

[DaBruinz]

Just an FYI. I've not been able to confirm this signing. The Pats don't have it on their web site (though they don't have any of the UDFA listed as being signed) nor do they have the 3 draft picks listed.

EDIT: It's confirmed.

 

[Uptown]

Jacas was listed as a LB when drafted. That may be his role in the base defense, with him rotating to the edge on passing downs.

A base defense made up of our best 11 looks like this:
Landry - Barmore - Williams - Jones
Spillane - Jacas
Gonzalez - Woodson - Byard - Jones - Davis

I wonder if LB will be de-emphasized in the base defense, with Jacas used in a hybrid role much like Vrabel was.

Jacas is an edge. Too heavy/inexperienced to play inside. He isn’t Hightower. He’s more of a Judon/Hali type..He may never be a “star” but I guarantee he won’t fail/bust.

 

[rkarp1]

I used the term "thin"
that does not mean bad nor does it mean can't be good.
A players former track record also does not necessarily hold water, because he would be brought in, specifically to playing the Patriots scheme.

I thought last year Spillane and Ellis played well enough. Not pro bowl level, but tackled well, were in the right spots most of the time.
I also thought Gibbons, for a back up type player, stepped in and the team continued to win.
Same with Jennings. I thought Jennings earned the right to be back here this summer, with a good chance to earn a spot on the 53.
I like Tavai, but he seemingly was not a good fit for this scheme.
Mapu as well. I did like him on ST. I thought he ran well and tackled well. At least see how he looks over the summer.

Maybe the new guys will come in and play well.
Muma could not earn snaps last year. Did he get better? Is he strictly ST?
otherwise everyone is either new, or a rookie.
The LB group could be a strength
Today, with out seeing players on the field, it looks "thin"
Adding another vet would be wise imo

 

[Wozzy]

A lot of posters do not think it is a pretty good group.

A lot of Patriots fans told us we had no talent from 2014-2018. Patriots fans suffer from a lack of perspective.

Saying "no team has 2 or 3 Pro Bowl backups" to create a false analogy does not make the Patriots ILBers "a pretty good group".

Spillane is good, not great, Elliss is weak, and after that everyone has been released by multiple teams or is a rookie. That does not add up to "pretty good". The ILBers is the Pats weakest talent group at this point. Let's hope the need is addressed before September with someone other than castoffs or rookies.

Top level defense = good

Draft position doesn’t equate to good or bad. Vrabel only wants weakside LB’ers, so they have a good group of them.

 

[JohnJH]

My plan for ILB is Jack Campbell from Detroit which didn't pick up his 5th Year Option. But, as a trade for him isn't going to happen, I suppose it's a moot point.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

so they have a good group of them.

I agree, a good group. Not a pretty good group like you originally posted.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I think it is all about Elliss. Vrabel thinks that he is a good starter. Many posters would prefer that he be restricted to ST play.

Also, many posters seem not to trust Vrable's ability to evaluate ILBs, an interesting idea.

Elliss is not great and the backups behind him do not install a lot of confidence - castoffs from other teams and rookies.

 

[mgteich]

Elliss is not great and the backups behind him do not install a lot of confidence - castoffs from other teams and rookies.

I think that Vrabel is fine with the starters.

I agree that the backups are a work in progress.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I think that Vrabel is fine with the starters.

I agree that the backups are a work in progress.

How do you know Vrabel is fine with the starters? Are you a friend a Diana Rusini getting inside scoops? How do you know what Vrabel is fine with?

 

[Wozzy]

I agree, a good group. Not a pretty good group like you originally posted.

When you have a reclamation project 3rd round pick in Muma and three rookies added to the mix there is no telling how good they can be.

Based on the current regime's ability to spot and develop talent (4 wins > most wins in NFL) we have to assume a certain level of competence. After one full season, they should only be improving what was already a good group health provided.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

When you have a reclamation project 3rd round pick in Muma and three rookies added to the mix there is no telling how good they can be.

Agreed. But historically the pattern is that veteran castoffs and R5+ rookies and UDFAs will not be good. It is rare to find a good player that was limited on another team. It happens, but it is rare. You like to quote rare examples and pretend the samples are mainstream.

Based on the current regime's ability to spot and develop talent (4 wins > most wins in NFL) we have to assume a certain level of competence. After one full season, they should only be improving what was already a good group health provided.

Yup, it is a good group, not a pretty good group. Agreed like in the last post. But not a "pretty great group" like you stated two posts ago. I can quote your comment from two posts ago if that would help you.

 

[Zuma]

Muma has the "potential" to be at the level of Gibbens....who is about an average backup...and that's not nearly good enough depth. I do think Ellis "could" be slightly better in 2026 with a year in the system but most likely Spillane will decline some being another year older....injuries will ensue. IMO we are ****ed at ILB if we don't sign 1 or even 2 that can thump and / or cover.

 

[Wozzy]

Agreed. But historically the pattern is that veteran castoffs and R5+ rookies and UDFAs will not be good. It is rare to find a good player that was limited on another team. It happens, but it is rare. You like to quote rare examples and pretend the samples are mainstream.

I don't think this is true at all, it certainly wasn't true of Ellis or Chaisson, Vrabel was a role player for 4 years. Patrick Chung was released by the Pats, and brought back a year later after a stint with the Eagles becoming a defensive leader and key contributor to three Super Bowl championships..

After bouncing between the Saints and Dolphins practice squads for three years, Rob Ninkovich was out of the league. Signed to a low-cost deal in 2009 he slowly evolved into a versatile starter. From 2011 to 2015 he started every game, recording forty sacks and became one of the most reliable players on defense.

After playing in the UFL and briefly with the Cincinnati Bengals, James Develin was cut before the 2012 season. The Patriots signed him, and he became one of the most effective fullbacks in the NFL. Underutilized with the Cleveland Browns Jabaal Sheard signed with the Patriots after their Super Bowl XLIX win. He quickly became an effective pass rusher, recording 13.0 sacks over two seasons. There's been countless examples, so much so that "Value Vet" became synonymous with the Dynasty Patriots.

Robert Spillane, D'Ernest Johnson, Christian Elliss, Brenden Schooler, Jack Gibbens, Jeremiah Pharms, Cory Durden, Ben Brown, Charles Woods, Jack Westover, Leonard Taylor, Dell Pettus, Terrell Jennings, Elijah Ponder, Eric Gregory, CJ Dippre and Efton Chism,... this is the list of UDFA contributors to last year's league best record, Super Bowl appearing team.

One season... is that ^ a small amount of players?

Yup, it is a good group, not a pretty good group. Agreed like in the last post. But not a "pretty great group" like you stated two posts ago. I can quote your comment from two posts ago if that would help you.

I trust in the current regime to get better, not worse.

 

[Wozzy]

Muma has the "potential" to be at the level of Gibbens....who is about an average backup...and that's not nearly good enough depth. I do think Ellis "could" be slightly better in 2026 with a year in the system but most likely Spillane will decline some being another year older....injuries will ensue. IMO we are ****ed at ILB if we don't sign 1 or even 2 that can thump and / or cover.

Jack Gibbens is a Toyota Corolla... Chad Muma is a Porsche 911.

Chad Muma
6-3 237
4.63 forty
40" vert
27 bench
129" broad
6.90 cone
4.21 shuttle

Jack Gibbens
6-3 242
4.82 forty
34" vert
14 bench
117" broad
7.02 cone
4.20 shuttle

The only thing Gibbens had was mobility and some knowledge how to play football, otherwise he wasn't a good athlete.

The best pure athletes on this team at ILB are Elliss, Muma and now Obiazor... which is strange. It's all the ILB'ers the negative Nancys dislike for some reason. Some people foolishly put entirely too much stock in draft position.

 

[Zuma]

Jack Gibbens is a Toyota Corolla... Chad Muma is a Porsche 911.

 

[mgteich]

How do you know Vrabel is fine with the starters? Are you a friend a Diana Rusini getting inside scoops? How do you know what Vrabel is fine with?

sigh

If Vrabel weren't fine with our ILB starters, he would have added one in free agency or in the draft, and perhaps have kept Gibbens.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

sigh

If Vrabel weren't fine with our ILB starters, he would have added one in free agency or in the draft, and perhaps have kept Gibbens.

Proof by a negative. This action did not happen therefore that must be true. A negative positive. I am not sure you have thought your response through.

 

[mgteich]

Proof by a negative. This action did not happen therefore that must be true. A negative positive. I am not sure you have thought your response through.

This isn't a court of law. It is a message board. We speculate. If we wanted proof or close, the best we could do is to say that almost every rooster spot is up for grabs.

ALTERNATIVE ONE
Vrabel is OK with his starters.

ALTERNATIVE TWO
Vrabel wants better starters and thinks, as many here, that at least one of them is really very good.
Under this scenario, Vrabel and staff were not able to secure anyone who could even compete wit Spillane and Ellis.