X's & O's The Patriots and the Erhardt-Perkins Offense

[stinkypete]

Deflategate is far easier to disprove as well, just take an empty plastic pop bottle and seal it at room temperature tight, put it in your fridge and wait an hour or so. When you look again it will have shrunk.

But of course they won't do that because none of them actually cared about the balls, they cared about trying to prove their inferior team didn't lose fair and square.

It seems that way, but, that’s not quite how the math works. The ideal gas law only works if you’re using the Kelvin temperature scale.

In degrees Fahrenheit, the temperature difference would have dropped from about 70° to about 50°. It would seem like a huge temperature difference that would correspond to a huge pressure difference, but the scale is wrong.

Using the Kelvin scale, the locker room temperature was about 320°, and the field temperature was about 300°. This is a much less significant temperature drop, less than 10%, which would result in a less than 10% pressure drop.

The balls were deflated, or at least they weren’t fully inflated. The bigger question was, who cares? What kind of real advantage did that give? Virtually none. The “crime” was akin to jaywalking, and it was punished like attempted murder.

 

[farn]

It seems that way, but, that’s not quite how the math works. The ideal gas law only works if you’re using the Kelvin temperature scale.

In degrees Fahrenheit, the temperature difference would have dropped from about 70° to about 50°. It would seem like a huge temperature difference that would correspond to a huge pressure difference, but the scale is wrong.

Using the Kelvin scale, the locker room temperature was about 320°, and the field temperature was about 300°. This is a much less significant temperature drop, less than 10%, which would result in a less than 10% pressure drop.

The balls were deflated, or at least they weren’t fully inflated. The bigger question was, who cares? What kind of real advantage did that give? Virtually none. The “crime” was akin to jaywalking, and it was punished like attempted murder.

Despite this : the issue was going to be HUGE. Tests / quality control / numbers…. Then crickets from the league. Which makes me believe the numbers didn’t fit their agenda.

The entire thing was much more about (1) patriots hate (2) the unlimited power of the commish’s office.

 

[upstater1]

It seems that way, but, that’s not quite how the math works. The ideal gas law only works if you’re using the Kelvin temperature scale.

In degrees Fahrenheit, the temperature difference would have dropped from about 70° to about 50°. It would seem like a huge temperature difference that would correspond to a huge pressure difference, but the scale is wrong.

Using the Kelvin scale, the locker room temperature was about 320°, and the field temperature was about 300°. This is a much less significant temperature drop, less than 10%, which would result in a less than 10% pressure drop.

The balls were deflated, or at least they weren’t fully inflated. The bigger question was, who cares? What kind of real advantage did that give? Virtually none. The “crime” was akin to jaywalking, and it was punished like attempted murder.

You're going by stuff that has already been disproven multiple times.

The actual deflation of the balls was LESS than 10% from the way Brady asked to have them set.

The initial numbers were all a lie.

The actual balls were between 11.5 psi and 12 psi.

Chris Mortensen reported the fake numbers of 10 psi initially. That was all debunked.

The field temperature was 42 degrees, by the way.

 

[Vindicate]

Its pretty complicated for the WRs/QB as well. A lot of memorizations and the WRs need to know what every WR does on a given play.,

The truth is I feel like EP is drastically less confusing. I'd be terrible at remembering the insane play calls of other systems. Give me concepts and it's plug and play from there. I'd imagine it's not necessarily inherently difficult, but rather difficult to adjust to if you learned to do it another way your entire life.

 

[n1997y]

It seems that way, but, that’s not quite how the math works. The ideal gas law only works if you’re using the Kelvin temperature scale.

In degrees Fahrenheit, the temperature difference would have dropped from about 70° to about 50°. It would seem like a huge temperature difference that would correspond to a huge pressure difference, but the scale is wrong.

Using the Kelvin scale, the locker room temperature was about 320°, and the field temperature was about 300°. This is a much less significant temperature drop, less than 10%, which would result in a less than 10% pressure drop.

The balls were deflated, or at least they weren’t fully inflated. The bigger question was, who cares? What kind of real advantage did that give? Virtually none. The “crime” was akin to jaywalking, and it was punished like attempted murder.

What you just said there is simply not true.

According to Grok, the permissible inflation range for NFL footballs is 12.5 to 13.5 psi.

Ten percent of 13.5 would be 1.35. So if the balls started out inflated indoors to the maximum legal pressure of 13.5 psi and lost 10% when chilled outdoors they would be below the minimum legal pressure.

There is another factor that I just thought of and have not seen discussed previously.

Compressing a gas raises its temperature, because work is being done. So the air temperature inside the football will be higher than the room temperature. For jollies and to get an idea of rough order of magnitude I asked Grok about this:

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Turn 50 manana.

Got 5 on you I feel it in my bones.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

What you just said there is simply not true.

According to Grok, the permissible inflation range for NFL footballs is 12.5 to 13.5 psi.

Ten percent of 13.5 would be 1.35. So if the balls started out inflated indoors to the maximum legal pressure of 13.5 psi and lost 10% when chilled outdoors they would be below the minimum legal pressure.

There is another factor that I just thought of and have not seen discussed previously.

Compressing a gas raises its temperature, because work is being done.

True

So the air temperature inside the football will be higher than the room temperature.

Only slightly.

For jollies and to get an idea of rough order of magnitude I asked Grok about this:

This is the ideal case that does not exist. In reality some "compressor" has to be used to increase 12.5 psi that does not compress gas in an ideal manner so the temp rise in the gas is a lot less. Also if the gas loses the 12.5 psi, the temperature returns to 72 degrees. Compressing and decompressing an ideal gas raises and lowers the gas temperature equally.

Also remember the pressure gauges measure Gauge pressure.

The thermodynamics and the equipment involved in raising and lowering gas pressure and temperature are quite complicated.

 

[PP2]

The truth is I feel like EP is drastically less confusing. I'd be terrible at remembering the insane play calls of other systems. Give me concepts and it's plug and play from there. I'd imagine it's not necessarily inherently difficult, but rather difficult to adjust to if you learned to do it another way your entire life.

That's part of the answer.

The other part is that some people are readily able to exhibit abstract thinking skills, and others just can't. Some people can easily visualize what is not in front of them, others just can't put it together.

 

[imahobgoblin]

True

Only slightly.

This is the ideal case that does not exist. In reality some "compressor" has to be used to increase 12.5 psi that does not compress gas in an ideal manner so the temp rise in the gas is a lot less. Also if the gas loses the 12.5 psi, the temperature returns to 72 degrees. Compressing and decompressing an ideal gas raises and lowers the gas temperature equally.

Also remember the pressure gauges measure Gauge pressure.

The thermodynamics and the equipment involved in raising and lowering gas pressure and temperature are quite complicated.

How the heck to terrorists hijack a thread about the EP system and make it about Deflate Gate? You really make the forum suck when you do this.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

How the heck to terrorists hijack a thread about the EP system and make it about Deflate Gate? You really make the forum suck when you do this.

That is your biggest concern about this forum? LOL Talk about majoring in a minor.

 

[Gumby]

Chris Brown, who is in his own league as a football writer, wrote the best article on the EP offense and nothing else comes remotely as close.

» Speak My Language

grantland.com

Awesome read. I think I might have read it 10 years ago, but after passing the 60-speed limit ..I forgot.

 

[Pape]

True

Only slightly.

This is the ideal case that does not exist. In reality some "compressor" has to be used to increase 12.5 psi that does not compress gas in an ideal manner so the temp rise in the gas is a lot less. Also if the gas loses the 12.5 psi, the temperature returns to 72 degrees. Compressing and decompressing an ideal gas raises and lowers the gas temperature equally.

Also remember the pressure gauges measure Gauge pressure.

The thermodynamics and the equipment involved in raising and lowering gas pressure and temperature are quite complicated.

there were two gauges used in the pre game psi check, both had different readings... so its all conjecture based on a pile of crap that could never accurately be replicated... any conclusion drawn from the existing and available information is flawed at best, and when reproduced by exponent, down right fraudulent

i think enough has been said about deflate gate, the ideal gas law, boyles law etc...

 

[signbabybrady]

 

[ctpatsfan77]

According to Grok, the permissible inflation range for NFL footballs is 12.5 to 13.5 psi.

Ten percent of 13.5 would be 1.35. So if the balls started out inflated indoors to the maximum legal pressure of 13.5 psi and lost 10% when chilled outdoors they would be below the minimum legal pressure.

Those are gauge pressures, i.e., above atmospheric. So the actual absolute pressures are ~27.2 to ~28.2 psi(a). But the temperature differences also have to be measured absolutely.

 

[reflexblue]

Got 5 on you I feel it in my bones.

You guys are youngins