Patriots Pregame Thread We're on to Cincinnati

[PatsFan2]

Can he? Yes. They don't have to say in advance and can wait til the last minute to activate him.

Will it happen? Now that's a question with a whole buncha other questions around it.

I'll just say it's not normal to use first team reps on a guy you're not going to play.

Bottom line is what we assumed to be a certainty (Burrow not playing) is now officially anyone's guess.

Maye will outduel him.

 

[ViperGTS]

I could care less if Burrow plays. He doesn't play defense and I trust the Pats defense a lot more.

 

[NFL Mystique]

If Burrow plays, it will go one of two ways. He plays outstanding. Or is terrible. No middle ground. But the Patriots should be able to put up 40 on that defense if need be.

 

[signbabybrady]

 

[mgteich]

You know I love a long post, Bob. And I don't disagree with you about your criticisms of Williams. But..

You should know and we have seen WR's who have taken time to "get" this offensive system. Chad Ocho was a 10,000 yd receiver when he came here and never got it. That happens and it is WAY too early to determine if Williams will join him. He has time and a QB who is still on a learning curve himself. Not a Brady who at that point had the patience of a gnat with receivers who weren't where they were supposed to be. And he had earned that right to be that way.

But that was then and this is now. Williams has raw speed, and exceptional quickness and the ability to get off the LOS against tough man coverage. Those are skills we need on this team and at this point he is the only guy who has them.

I think people here understand it hasn't been the product we had HOPED we'd get. But it is WAY too early to declare it a failed experiment. Clearly, he doesn't have the confidence of his QB and OC...YET. But we are barely past the half way mark of season 1 for this kid. This kid has the talent you wait for at least 2 full years for, and probably 3. It took Boutte 3 seasons to breakout.

The choice is whether to phase him out this year or continue to give him lots of reps, hoping that his presence will help in the playoffs.

Personally, I consider him our #5 WR (with our #6 even less likely to contribute).

Given how Vrabel trats other backups, it is not at all clear why this backup gets so many reps.

IMO, if our top 4 WR's are healthy, I wouldn't even have Williams active. When everyone is healthy, we have plenty of receiving targets. Giving Williams reps simply means that a better [player is on the bench. That is NOT the way of Vrabel. Consider how many starters who get 100% of the available reps or very close.

That being said, Boutte, Stevenson and Hooper have been injured. So, I can see Williams being active. It would be GREAT for Williams to be the first off the bench to backup Boutte. For the rest of this season, I think that Douglas is a better choice for that role. As a bonus, a spot on the active roster is opened up.

 

[mike_usagisan]

No-one said it was clear cut. If you remember, the question was could the Titans pick a QB two years in a row? The answer was it might happen. Not sure how you got to "I don't think it's cut and dry".

Sorry, I thought you were saying it will happen. There's always the chance that it might. I just started talking about why I thought it wouldn't. My mistake.

 

[signbabybrady]

 

[patfanken]

The choice is whether to phase him out this year or continue to give him lots of reps, hoping that his presence will help in the playoffs.

Personally, I consider him our #5 WR (with our #6 even less likely to contribute).

Given how Vrabel trats other backups, it is not at all clear why this backup gets so many reps.

IMO, if our top 4 WR's are healthy, I wouldn't even have Williams active. When everyone is healthy, we have plenty of receiving targets. Giving Williams reps simply means that a better [player is on the bench. That is NOT the way of Vrabel. Consider how many starters who get 100% of the available reps or very close.

That being said, Boutte, Stevenson and Hooper have been injured. So, I can see Williams being active. It would be GREAT for Williams to be the first off the bench to backup Boutte. For the rest of this season, I think that Douglas is a better choice for that role. As a bonus, a spot on the active roster is opened up.

I want Williams active every game. I want him getting at least 10 practice reps a day with Drake. I want him working on the side after practice with Divito or Maye throwing back shoulder throws for a half hour each day. I want him working with Brown every day doing a tutorial on the intricacies of the pass routes, so he is starting to see what Drake is seeing for a half hour every day.

Maybe they are doing these things already in some fashion. But he's never going to improve if he isn't active and just running scout plays. But you are right, he's #5 and a specialty route runner at this point. "Go long, young son, go long".
I'm kinda falling out of love with Chism, but I probably wouldn't have liked Wes Welker returning KO's either. Nice story while it lasted. We have 2 guys (Diggs and Douglas) who do his job and more ahead of him and will likely add more talented WR's next year through FA and/or the draft focusing on either speed or size, neither of which Chism has.

 

[The Gr8est]

Well Vrabel, Cowden, Stretch, Wolf and Highsmith did turn over like half of the roster. But it does show what solid coaching/personnel can do in a season or two.

Where would the Pats be now if they had kept Mayo and Wolf?

I shudder to think about it.

 

[The Gr8est]

So Bengals... No Burrow, No Chase, No Hendrickson, No Taylor-Britt.... Jesus.

Well, I expected the Patriots to win, but now don't they absolutely have to? I mean if they lose this what do you even say?

Didn’t Flacco aggravate his shoulder injury too?

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Didn’t Flacco aggravate his shoulder injury too?

Burrow playing is still on the table.

 

[Joey007]

Burrow playing is still on the table.

One thing to factor is that they play again Thursday. And it’s a divisional matchup.

Seems like a lot to ask him to return by playing two games in four days.

 

[signbabybrady]

One thing to factor is that they play again Thursday. And it’s a divisional matchup.

Seems like a lot to ask him to return by playing two games in four days.

That actually could be the logic but the other way around.

Either both or neither.

If you think he's gonna be ready Thursday why not rush him Sunday it's not a big difference. They can't afford to lose another game the rest of the year basically.

 

[mgteich]

I want Williams active every game. I want him getting at least 10 practice reps a day with Drake. I want him working on the side after practice with Divito or Maye throwing back shoulder throws for a half hour each day. I want him working with Brown every day doing a tutorial on the intricacies of the pass routes, so he is starting to see what Drake is seeing for a half hour every day.

Maybe they are doing these things already in some fashion. But he's never going to improve if he isn't active and just running scout plays. But you are right, he's #5 and a specialty route runner at this point. "Go long, young son, go long".
I'm kinda falling out of love with Chism, but I probably wouldn't have liked Wes Welker returning KO's either. Nice story while it lasted. We have 2 guys (Diggs and Douglas) who do his job and more ahead of him and will likely add more talented WR's next year through FA and/or the draft focusing on either speed or size, neither of which Chism has.

I get it, you want Boutte and Douglas to sit on the bench so that we can develop Williams.
==========
I guess the situation is simpler.
Williams is ahead of Douglas in the depth chart and decidedly ahead of Boutte. Williams get lots and lots of reps. His production isn't relevant. He is healthy and he plays instead of Douglas.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

That actually could be the logic but the other way around.

Either both or neither.

If you think he's gonna be ready Thursday why not rush him Sunday it's not a big difference. They can't afford to lose another game the rest of the year basically.

Right.
They have an outside shot at the playoffs, but they need to win now!
So Burrow, or a banged up Flacco.
If I was a coach on the hot seat I know who I would be starting.

 

[patfanken]

I get it, you want Boutte and Douglas to sit on the bench so that we can develop Williams.

I'm sorry. Did you actually read my post.

I want Williams to be active for games. The reps I want him to take are PRACTICE reps. The only thing I expect from him now to be active for games and get a few reps essentially going long or being a long threat. But I do want him working on specific things in PRACTICE, and after practice working with his coaches. Trying to stop doing the things that are currently keeping him back.

The other options is to sign someone like Cooks, give him a case of the Foxboro Flu, shut him down and get him an apartment next to where Drew is spending the off season.

 

[Joey007]

That actually could be the logic but the other way around.

Either both or neither.

If you think he's gonna be ready Thursday why not rush him Sunday it's not a big difference. They can't afford to lose another game the rest of the year basically.

Point is that playing two games within a four day span might be really pushing it for him. The four day turnaround absolutely could play a factor.

It’s less simple than being ready to take snaps vs. being ready to go without any limits.

 

[mgteich]

I'm sorry. Did you actually read my post.

I want Williams to be active for games. The reps I want him to take are PRACTICE reps. The only thing I expect from him now to be active for games and get a few reps essentially going long or being a long threat. But I do want him working on specific things in PRACTICE, and after practice working with his coaches. Trying to stop doing the things that are currently keeping him back.

The other options is to sign someone like Cooks, give him a case of the Foxboro Flu, shut him down and get him an apartment next to where Drew is spending the off season.

OK, perhaps I misunderstood. Let me more clear.
1) I agree that Williams should get lots of practice reps as befits a #5 WR. I presume that this is happening.
2) I think that Williams does practice a lot with a very few plays going long in game. The open question is why he's on the field for so many plays each game.
------------------------------------------------
Williams
snaps 31, 34, 45
targets 1. 2, 3
receptions 0, 1, 0
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3) Having Douglas only have under 20 snaps in each of these games makes no sense, unless the team thinks that WIllimas provides them with so much better potential (no matter what the evidence shows so far).
============
QUESTION
Do we believe that we would have more production if Williams was out there for 15 snaps a game and Douglas more than 30, rather than the current situation?

Now, that's with Boutte injured. If 30 snaps are available for our #4 and #5 WR's, how would you divide the load?

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

They would be crazy to have burrow come back from that kind of injury to play a sunday and Thursday game back to back. In a meaningless season at this point

 

[maust]

They would be crazy to have burrow come back from that kind of injury to play a sunday and Thursday game back to back. In a meaningless season at this point

Yep but this is Mike Brown's Bungles we're talking about. Sane and sensible seldom enters the equation. Cheap is always on the table but that doesn't really factor in here